AVZ Discussion 2022

[ChrisU]

My reading of the latest update:


ICC update
AVZ have made a jurisdictional challenge for the arbitration matter, related to whether the pre-emption rights were breached. A jurisdictional challenge is when a Respondent makes a submission challenging the adjudicator's jurisdiction to determine a dispute. ICC ruled in favour of AVZI to hear and determine the challenge.

The International Court of Arbitration of the International Chamber of Commerce18 (“ICC) is among those institutions that have empowered their respective boards or courts of arbitration to decide an objection to their jurisdiction, and thus to dismiss a case if they conclude that the institute has no jurisdiction over the dispute.

So a decision has not been made here yet. ICC could either dismiss the case if they do not believe they have jurisdiction or continue on with arbitration proceedings.



DRC tribunal decision
There has been a request by Dathomir for suspension of payments which have already been made.

Both Dathomir share purchase agreements (SPAs) are subject to arbitration agreements. My interpretation of this is that you can't just get any random run of the mill tribunal to hear arbitration matters in relation to these agreements as they have set requirements written into the agreements. Only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal has jurisdiction to overturn AVZI's acquisition. No such proceedings have commenced and the tribunal decision does not purport to have any effect on the SPAs. The tribunal decision mentioned did not happen within a properly constituted arbitral tribunal. Therefore it does not have jurisdiction. This is set out in the SPA.

AVZ considers 20 September decision immaterial. I would agree. They can suspend and hold the funds in whatever holding account they want, it does not change the fact that the transaction has occurred.
I could sell a car and receive the funds in one of my accounts by transfer. I could then give the car to the buyer then tell the bank not to transfer the funds to my main savings account...ok, so what? That doesn't mean I can get the car back.

What annoys me about AVZ’s style is circumlocution: “Only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal”

What is “a properly constituted arbitral tribunal”?

Spell it out.

We need to understand why AVZ emphasises “tribunal”, whereas Tom Richardson used “court”.

AVZ says nothing on the or any authority of the tribunal.

Richardson is up to his semantic tricks. He did the same thing in his May article

 

[obe wan]

Mr I

1) I started that private conversation with you, hope you got it

2) I can’t see how AVZ ASX release (attached) states what you state in your post?

View attachment 19506

Jin Cheng ICC Arbitration Proceedings
Article 24 , Case Management Conference and Procedural Timetable - as per your link @MoneyBags1348
*the arbitral tribunal shall hold a case management conference to consult the parties on procedural measures that may be adopted - as per the ann 9/9/22 - The Parties will be convened to a case management conference in September 2022, so this obviously has happened.

Article 24 point 2 - During such conference, or as soon as possible thereafter, the arbitral tribunal shall establish the procedural timetable that it intends to follow for the efficient conduct of the arbitration

Article 24 - point 4 - Case management conferences may be conducted through a meeting in person, by video conference, telephone or similar means of communication. In the absence of an agreement of the parties, the arbitral tribunal shall determine the means by which the conference will be conducted. The arbitral tribunal may request the parties to submit case management proposals in advance of a case management conference and may request the attendance at any case management conference of the parties in person or through an internal representative. - So here it suggests , they try and nut it out to see how best to und get things underway and undertake that efficient route in coming to a conclusion

AVZ ann 20.10.22 - The Arbitrator has issued Procedural Order No.1-3 ruling in favour of AVZI and consequently will now proceed to hear and determine AVZI’s jurisdictional challenge (around whether AVZI’s pre-emption rights were breached) before dealing, if necessary, with the merits of the case.

So would appear that most efficient manner , i.e quickest way to the end would obviously be tapping those pre-emption terms and seeing of they were breached .... based on the outcome of that, then they would decide if the case is even a goer.....ICC likely see pre-emption rights conditions as the jugular .

DRC Tribunal Decision -
As the DRC Tribunal correctly acknowledged, both Dathomir SPAs contain and are subject to arbitration agreements. It follows that only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal has jurisdiction to overturn AVZI’s August 2021 acquisition of a further 15% interest in Dathcom from Dathomir.

So no defendants in the room , but Tribunal decision was granted to Cong for interim suspension of payments which were already in the designated account , an account number which was provided to AVZ for the deposit, Cong hasnt spent he money , its kept in an account because he decided after he had received he wanted more.....it would be interesting to see a statement of that account and any transactional movements to and returning back into. Anyway Tribunal decided to give Cong that status, but also acknowledged that both Dathomir SPAs contain and are subject to arbitration agreements ....... so , only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal has jurisdiction to overturn AVZI’s August 2021 acquisition....

......kinda sounds like the Dathomir case holds no merit unless Cong takes it to a higher level.

...Given Cominiere's dodgy dealings, sounds like ICC probablt agree that Pre-emption rights in probably the path of least resistance in getting this thing efficiently dealt with everyone just moving on

 

[DoubleA]

I’ve read, re-read, and read again that word-salad abomination of an announcement.
It’s almost like someone threw some duck entrails at google translate and this is what popped out the end. FMD.

Caution: What follows is a madman’s reverse-engineered interpretation of said word salad. Read at your own risk.

Now that’s out of the way, I think I can see AVZ painting a positive picture here:

Thing 1. Z/ICC Arbitration: The next action is for the ICC to determine whether it has *jurisdiction* to hear the case. AVZ think the ICC does not have jurisdiction and, if correct, the case will not proceed to the next step (of “being heard on its merits”).

Thing 2. DRC Tribunal: AVZ are seemingly so confident on this one they did not even send the office coffee boy to stand in the corner of the hearing room and play pocket billiards for a few hours. What the shit, Batman? Either that or they were binge-watching Doomsday Preppers and forgot to put the alarm on - dunno which.
Anyhoo, AVZ are saying “we don’t give a fuck - it’s not a properly constituted arbitral tribunal”, presumably because the dispute mechanisms are laid out in detail in other legal documents (JV agreement or somesuch thing). In other words, “until such time as one of these numbnuts from Dathomir invokes a proper dispute with us, it’s ours thanks all the same”.

So yeah, I think it’s positive. If correct, it might explain the vibe about being close to the ML, but who the fuck knows…

Oh, and to AVZ management: Hi. I hereby volunteer to write your announcements from this point forward. I’ll write some nice words that are both syntactically correct and logically structured. Then I’ll hand it over Wino and Moneybags who will add the kind of verbs and adjectives that would make a soldier blush. These announcements, so authored, will then be both understandable and entertaining. You know it makes sense.

My interpretation is similar to yours.

1. Agreed.

2. My interpretation is slightly different. I don't think AVZ is so confident that they did not send anyone.

None of the defendants were present or heard by the tribunal. It sounds like Dathomir just went to a very low level tribunal and asked for a payment to be "suspended". None of the defendants were there. We don't even know if they were notified. The tribunal appears to have "suspended" the payment but it does not have jurisdiction to decide any arbitration matters as it is not a properly constituted arbitral tribunal as set out by the requirements of the share purchase agreements.

So they have suspended this payment. That's fine. They can keep the money at the bank in whatever holding account they want. This does not impact the share purchase agreements. The tribunal does not purport to have any effect on the validity of the Dathomir share purchase agreements.

 

[DoubleA]

Jin Cheng ICC Arbitration Proceedings
Article 24 , Case Management Conference and Procedural Timetable - as per your link @MoneyBags1348
*the arbitral tribunal shall hold a case management conference to consult the parties on procedural measures that may be adopted - as per the ann 9/9/22 - The Parties will be convened to a case management conference in September 2022, so this obviously has happened.

Article 24 point 2 - During such conference, or as soon as possible thereafter, the arbitral tribunal shall establish the procedural timetable that it intends to follow for the efficient conduct of the arbitration

Article 24 - point 4 - Case management conferences may be conducted through a meeting in person, by video conference, telephone or similar means of communication. In the absence of an agreement of the parties, the arbitral tribunal shall determine the means by which the conference will be conducted. The arbitral tribunal may request the parties to submit case management proposals in advance of a case management conference and may request the attendance at any case management conference of the parties in person or through an internal representative. - So here it suggests , they try and nut it out to see how best to und get things underway and undertake that efficient route in coming to a conclusion

AVZ ann 20.10.22 - The Arbitrator has issued Procedural Order No.1-3 ruling in favour of AVZI and consequently will now proceed to hear and determine AVZI’s jurisdictional challenge (around whether AVZI’s pre-emption rights were breached) before dealing, if necessary, with the merits of the case.

So would appear that most efficient manner , i.e quickest way to the end would obviously be tapping those pre-emption terms and seeing of they were breached .... based on the outcome of that, then they would decide if the case is even a goer.....ICC likely see pre-emption rights conditions as the jugular .

DRC Tribunal Decision -
As the DRC Tribunal correctly acknowledged, both Dathomir SPAs contain and are subject to arbitration agreements. It follows that only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal has jurisdiction to overturn AVZI’s August 2021 acquisition of a further 15% interest in Dathcom from Dathomir.

So no defendants in the room , but Tribunal decision was granted to Cong for interim suspension of payments which were already in the designated account , an account number which was provided to AVZ for the deposit, Cong hasnt spent he money , its kept in an account because he decided after he had received he wanted more.....it would be interesting to see a statement of that account and any transactional movements to and returning back into. Anyway Tribunal decided to give Cong that status, but also acknowledged that both Dathomir SPAs contain and are subject to arbitration agreements ....... so , only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal has jurisdiction to overturn AVZI’s August 2021 acquisition....

......kinda sounds like the Dathomir case holds no merit unless Cong takes it to a higher level.

...Given Cominiere's dodgy dealings, sounds like ICC probablt agree that Pre-emption rights in probably the path of least resistance in getting this thing efficiently dealt with everyone just moving on

This is my interpretation too. I also would be SUPER interested to see if the funds were left in the account the whole time or whether the sale took place, they took the money and spent it, then months later saw the huge price increases for lithium and transferred funds back into the account where it could then be "suspended".

 

[DoubleA]

What annoys me about AVZ’s style is circumlocution: “Only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal”

What is “a properly constituted arbitral tribunal”?

Spell it out.

We need to understand why AVZ emphasises “tribunal”, whereas Tom Richardson used “court”.

AVZ says nothing on the or any authority of the tribunal.

Richardson is up to his semantic tricks. He did the same thing in his May article

For whatever reason this AFR Tom has a very biased view against AVZ. A court sounds more official/negative then a tribunal and he also stated on twitter that the decision voided the deal to buy 15% of Manono, when this does not appear to be correct at all. It appears as if he is deliberately trying to summarise the situation in as negative a light as possible. He appears to have some type of strong motive for him to want AVZ not to succeed. You would think he is opening himself up to negative consequences in the future.

 

[Samus]

I think I see what's happened here, the update is written by an illiterate drc lawyer who can't string a cohesive sentence together...
It reads like one of those articles out of the dodgy drc newspapers.
Designed to confound and confuse the issue to the point where it simply does the readers head in and they just give up.

 

[Modo]

Jin Cheng ICC Arbitration Proceedings
Article 24 , Case Management Conference and Procedural Timetable - as per your link @MoneyBags1348
*the arbitral tribunal shall hold a case management conference to consult the parties on procedural measures that may be adopted - as per the ann 9/9/22 - The Parties will be convened to a case management conference in September 2022, so this obviously has happened.

Article 24 point 2 - During such conference, or as soon as possible thereafter, the arbitral tribunal shall establish the procedural timetable that it intends to follow for the efficient conduct of the arbitration

Article 24 - point 4 - Case management conferences may be conducted through a meeting in person, by video conference, telephone or similar means of communication. In the absence of an agreement of the parties, the arbitral tribunal shall determine the means by which the conference will be conducted. The arbitral tribunal may request the parties to submit case management proposals in advance of a case management conference and may request the attendance at any case management conference of the parties in person or through an internal representative. - So here it suggests , they try and nut it out to see how best to und get things underway and undertake that efficient route in coming to a conclusion

AVZ ann 20.10.22 - The Arbitrator has issued Procedural Order No.1-3 ruling in favour of AVZI and consequently will now proceed to hear and determine AVZI’s jurisdictional challenge (around whether AVZI’s pre-emption rights were breached) before dealing, if necessary, with the merits of the case.

So would appear that most efficient manner , i.e quickest way to the end would obviously be tapping those pre-emption terms and seeing of they were breached .... based on the outcome of that, then they would decide if the case is even a goer.....ICC likely see pre-emption rights conditions as the jugular .

DRC Tribunal Decision -
As the DRC Tribunal correctly acknowledged, both Dathomir SPAs contain and are subject to arbitration agreements. It follows that only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal has jurisdiction to overturn AVZI’s August 2021 acquisition of a further 15% interest in Dathcom from Dathomir.

So no defendants in the room , but Tribunal decision was granted to Cong for interim suspension of payments which were already in the designated account , an account number which was provided to AVZ for the deposit, Cong hasnt spent he money , its kept in an account because he decided after he had received he wanted more.....it would be interesting to see a statement of that account and any transactional movements to and returning back into. Anyway Tribunal decided to give Cong that status, but also acknowledged that both Dathomir SPAs contain and are subject to arbitration agreements ....... so , only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal has jurisdiction to overturn AVZI’s August 2021 acquisition....

......kinda sounds like the Dathomir case holds no merit unless Cong takes it to a higher level.

...Given Cominiere's dodgy dealings, sounds like ICC probablt agree that Pre-emption rights in probably the path of least resistance in getting this thing efficiently dealt with everyone just moving on

Jin Cheng ICC Arbitration Proceedings
Article 24 , Case Management Conference and Procedural Timetable - as per your link @MoneyBags1348
*the arbitral tribunal shall hold a case management conference to consult the parties on procedural measures that may be adopted - as per the ann 9/9/22 - The Parties will be convened to a case management conference in September 2022, so this obviously has happened.

Article 24 point 2 - During such conference, or as soon as possible thereafter, the arbitral tribunal shall establish the procedural timetable that it intends to follow for the efficient conduct of the arbitration

Article 24 - point 4 - Case management conferences may be conducted through a meeting in person, by video conference, telephone or similar means of communication. In the absence of an agreement of the parties, the arbitral tribunal shall determine the means by which the conference will be conducted. The arbitral tribunal may request the parties to submit case management proposals in advance of a case management conference and may request the attendance at any case management conference of the parties in person or through an internal representative. - So here it suggests , they try and nut it out to see how best to und get things underway and undertake that efficient route in coming to a conclusion

AVZ ann 20.10.22 - The Arbitrator has issued Procedural Order No.1-3 ruling in favour of AVZI and consequently will now proceed to hear and determine AVZI’s jurisdictional challenge (around whether AVZI’s pre-emption rights were breached) before dealing, if necessary, with the merits of the case.

So would appear that most efficient manner , i.e quickest way to the end would obviously be tapping those pre-emption terms and seeing of they were breached .... based on the outcome of that, then they would decide if the case is even a goer.....ICC likely see pre-emption rights conditions as the jugular .

DRC Tribunal Decision -
As the DRC Tribunal correctly acknowledged, both Dathomir SPAs contain and are subject to arbitration agreements. It follows that only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal has jurisdiction to overturn AVZI’s August 2021 acquisition of a further 15% interest in Dathcom from Dathomir.

So no defendants in the room , but Tribunal decision was granted to Cong for interim suspension of payments which were already in the designated account , an account number which was provided to AVZ for the deposit, Cong hasnt spent he money , its kept in an account because he decided after he had received he wanted more.....it would be interesting to see a statement of that account and any transactional movements to and returning back into. Anyway Tribunal decided to give Cong that status, but also acknowledged that both Dathomir SPAs contain and are subject to arbitration agreements ....... so , only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal has jurisdiction to overturn AVZI’s August 2021 acquisition....

......kinda sounds like the Dathomir case holds no merit unless Cong takes it to a higher level.

...Given Cominiere's dodgy dealings, sounds like ICC probablt agree that Pre-emption rights in probably the path of least resistance in getting this thing efficiently dealt with everyone just moving on

You have been way off the mark on accuracy in this area previously. The arbitration was purely a procedural matter and would be dropped by the other party. Was that not your your mantra?

 

[ChrisU]

I think I see what's happened here, the update is written by an illiterate drc lawyer who can't string a cohesive sentence together...
It reads like one of those articles out of the dodgy drc newspapers.
Designed to confound and confuse the issue to the point where it simply does the readers head in and they just give up.

The same effect was struck in the media speculation statement.

 

[CashKing]

For whatever reason this AFR Tom has a very biased view against AVZ. A court sounds more official/negative then a tribunal and he also stated on twitter that the decision voided the deal to buy 15% of Manono, when this does not appear to be correct at all. It appears as if he is deliberately trying to summarise the situation in as negative a light as possible. He appears to have some type of strong motive for him to want AVZ not to succeed. You would think he is opening himself up to negative consequences in the future.

Probably has a fair few shorts & is pissed he paying interest etc….

Ages ago once we started proving up Manono’s massive deposit, I had a weird feeling that someone in Aus wasn’t happy with how good our grades were etc..

Hmm I can picture he’s face but not sure, he blocked a lot of people on the bird I think, long shot but somethings smells of boatman’s reports & having something to do with that person & or Tommy boy….

I’m probably going crazy cause AVZ will do that to you after 5 years…..

So AIMO & Tomorrow I’ll say the greatest saying that apparently gets you off shit….

“I can’t recall” in a calm deep soft voice…


GLTAH

 

[Winenut]

Anyone else want Modo, R2 and Der Geist to just fuck off and talk to themselves somewhere else?

Come to think of it I thought Modo got whacked?

Maybe it was just wishful thinking or the shyster deleted his/her own posts......

Not getting much from the official company announcements at the moment....in fact very disappointed in that regard

But the ongoing and increasing agenda driven bullshit being peddled around and around and around is giving me the fucking shits

Fucking inuendo and insider boogey woogey.....

Sitting right there on top of the same undulating and disturbing waters as the fucking Boatman

All IMHO of course

 

[CashKing]

Anyone else want Modo, R2 and Der Geist to just fuck off and talk to themselves somewhere else?

Come to think of it I thought Modo got whacked?

Maybe it was just wishful thinking or the shyster deleted his/her own posts......

Not getting much from the official company announcements at the moment....in fact very disappointed in that regard

But the ongoing and increasing agenda driven bullshit being peddled around and around and around is giving me the fucking shits

Fucking inuendo and insider boogey woogey.....

View attachment 19516

Sitting right there on top of the same undulating and disturbing waters as the fucking Boatman

All IMHO of course

Let it all out mate… it’s your/our time to shine while the eastern boys and gals are sound asleep dreaming of AVZ trading again

Fark me look at the page number…..

 

[Winenut]

Let it all out mate… it’s your time to shine

Believe it or not I still haven't had a drink!

 

[CashKing]

Believe it or not I still haven't had a drink!

You have changed old mate…

I invited John Clark he could do with some iron by the looks

Night shifts a bitch….

AIMO NFI DYOR

 

[Winenut]

You have changed old mate…

View attachment 19520

Whoa! That's sure looking sweet

Where are the vegetables??

 

[Winenut]

You have changed old mate…

I invited John Clark he could do with some iron by the looks

Night shifts a bitch….

AIMO NFI DYOR

View attachment 19520

I reckon I can tell you did a red wine reduction there for the jus

Just a guess

 

[CashKing]

Whoa! That's sure looking sweet

Where are the vegetables??

Hopefully veggies at the AGM

Can’t afford them at the moment

 

[ChrisU]

Anyone else want Modo, R2 and Der Geist to just fuck off and talk to themselves somewhere else?

Come to think of it I thought Modo got whacked?

Maybe it was just wishful thinking or the shyster deleted his/her own posts......

Not getting much from the official company announcements at the moment....in fact very disappointed in that regard

But the ongoing and increasing agenda driven bullshit being peddled around and around and around is giving me the fucking shits

Fucking inuendo and insider boogey woogey.....

View attachment 19516

Sitting right there on top of the same undulating and disturbing waters as the fucking Boatman

All IMHO of course

Anyone else want Modo, R2 and Der Geist to just fuck off and talk to themselves somewhere else?

Come to think of it I thought Modo got whacked?

Maybe it was just wishful thinking or the shyster deleted his/her own posts......

Not getting much from the official company announcements at the moment....in fact very disappointed in that regard

But the ongoing and increasing agenda driven bullshit being peddled around and around and around is giving me the fucking shits

Fucking inuendo and insider boogey woogey.....

View attachment 19516

Sitting right there on top of the same undulating and disturbing waters as the fucking Boatman

All IMHO of course

i think you need to take the vulnerable plunge and form a whatsapp or similar social media private group. This is a public forum, not your private club.

We are all here to discuss our investment in AVZ, but your post above is obnoxious beyond the pale.

Please find your what’sapp group.

 

[John25]

Boys im still up C’mon Nut let loose & whack someone FFS but get Franks ok first …

 

[Der Geist]

I love it when you drink all the good stuff comes out but it still questions me who the fark are you . Speak in tongues like Michael does & IMO He’s still in….

We shall see….

“still in”
I think I know who you mean. He spat the dummy a long time back, with great gut juice curdling hate. Ask Jens who has sent Jens a ‘physical’ threat. I have screenshots in case Jens goes missing. This is why doxxing is dangerous

 

[Der Geist]

Cong has already taken it where he needs support. This legal stuff is a distraction.
It’s politics and thuggery

Jin Cheng ICC Arbitration Proceedings
Article 24 , Case Management Conference and Procedural Timetable - as per your link @MoneyBags1348
*the arbitral tribunal shall hold a case management conference to consult the parties on procedural measures that may be adopted - as per the ann 9/9/22 - The Parties will be convened to a case management conference in September 2022, so this obviously has happened.

Article 24 point 2 - During such conference, or as soon as possible thereafter, the arbitral tribunal shall establish the procedural timetable that it intends to follow for the efficient conduct of the arbitration

Article 24 - point 4 - Case management conferences may be conducted through a meeting in person, by video conference, telephone or similar means of communication. In the absence of an agreement of the parties, the arbitral tribunal shall determine the means by which the conference will be conducted. The arbitral tribunal may request the parties to submit case management proposals in advance of a case management conference and may request the attendance at any case management conference of the parties in person or through an internal representative. - So here it suggests , they try and nut it out to see how best to und get things underway and undertake that efficient route in coming to a conclusion

AVZ ann 20.10.22 - The Arbitrator has issued Procedural Order No.1-3 ruling in favour of AVZI and consequently will now proceed to hear and determine AVZI’s jurisdictional challenge (around whether AVZI’s pre-emption rights were breached) before dealing, if necessary, with the merits of the case.

So would appear that most efficient manner , i.e quickest way to the end would obviously be tapping those pre-emption terms and seeing of they were breached .... based on the outcome of that, then they would decide if the case is even a goer.....ICC likely see pre-emption rights conditions as the jugular .

DRC Tribunal Decision -
As the DRC Tribunal correctly acknowledged, both Dathomir SPAs contain and are subject to arbitration agreements. It follows that only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal has jurisdiction to overturn AVZI’s August 2021 acquisition of a further 15% interest in Dathcom from Dathomir.

So no defendants in the room , but Tribunal decision was granted to Cong for interim suspension of payments which were already in the designated account , an account number which was provided to AVZ for the deposit, Cong hasnt spent he money , its kept in an account because he decided after he had received he wanted more.....it would be interesting to see a statement of that account and any transactional movements to and returning back into. Anyway Tribunal decided to give Cong that status, but also acknowledged that both Dathomir SPAs contain and are subject to arbitration agreements ....... so , only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal has jurisdiction to overturn AVZI’s August 2021 acquisition....

......kinda sounds like the Dathomir case holds no merit unless Cong takes it to a higher level.

...Given Cominiere's dodgy dealings, sounds like ICC probablt agree that Pre-emption rights in probably the path of least resistance in getting this thing efficiently dealt with everyone just moving on

it