AVZ Discussion 2022

obe wan

Regular
must be coming close to the 1st with another boatman style article coming out trying to rattle the lth's into selling. it certainly feels dark at the mo but here's hoping for a positive announcement and lifting of the suspension.
That article look s to be more of an exposing article to be honest of potential games of who is who in the zoo; could equally be some cannibalisms flavours in there

That article suspects Zijin and Huayou being in the snake pit...wouldn't surprise me on bit to be honest. Huayou lying in wait for some time in my opinion. CAT.....well they did say that they were unconditional and would pay up on XYZ date...they haven't , so they may also have a place in the snake-pit. All Chinese , what do you expect i suppose, but CAT would want to be looking pretty clean, scent of their involvement .... well , they haven't signed ... ideally giving them the bird and AVZ moving off and tying a deal with someone else would be a shot to the heart

I'm with @wombat74 and have had the same opinion for quite a while and that is that once this thing gets ML, then the claws are going to be out; turbulent and weathering waters ; SP smashed from euphoric levels, cockroaches spilling out of the jar from all angles; Ferguson has to be well over dealing with Chinese and DRC bullshite by now. shareholders battered and bruised.... there will be an AVZ percentage of project offer IMO no matter how this thing spills out on the floor after it starts to trade again; the project is just too important, some body shots in an attempt to tenderize it up front and see how it fairs up..then see how much it takes to push the weary AVZ train of its rails; no doubt they'll be paying alot higher than current MC valve , but probably a fair bit less than if it was left to continue to run north from where we were at $1.20/1.30
 
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wombat74

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Id high doubt RD is an issue at all, as they have positioned the current 13359 up to that very last bore collar, so that will switch over to exploitation license, that's a given I would think. The rest of 13359, they are probably working that out which would probably mean that surface rights for 13359 is still a bit of a fat finger shifting number calculator
Thanks for the reply . Personally I've mostly looked at this project as being Roche Dure alone . Those numbers had me hello. In love at first sight. Carriere de l’Este for me is the icing on top the cake that is already 10 inches thick with icing . Yep will be amazing if we can lock it in but it ain't the end of the world. I will still be very happy if it's just the 401 Mt @ 1.65% Li2O (spodumene) ▪ Reserves 132 Mt @ 1.63% Li2O (Reserve LoM 29.5 years2 ) ▪ Homogenous in grade with mountains of upside . $1.50 - $2 see ya later . Next
 
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Interesting video.

Doesn't really say too much, more about that recent investigative journo. Thought the statement about the millions of dollars the company had (guessing chinese) and the jounros need to back them cause of their money, is worrying. If I understood that correctly.

 
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JAG

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1656457019264.png
 
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obe wan

Regular
Interesting video.

Doesn't really say too much, more about that recent investigative journo. Thought the statement about the millions of dollars the company had (guessing chinese) and the jounros need to back them cause of their money, is worrying. If I understood that correctly.


This guy (Mice tshibangu) is a journalist trying to create a story off a hot topic who would probably get 2/10 on mining code 2002 Q&A quiz
 
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That article look s to be more of an exposing article to be honest of potential games of who is who in the zoo; could equally be some cannibalisms flavours in there

That article suspects Zijin and Huayou being in the snake pit...wouldn't surprise me on bit to be honest. Huayou lying in wait for some time in my opinion. CAT.....well they did say that they were unconditional and would pay up on XYZ date...they haven't , so they may also have a place in the snake-pit. All Chinese , what do you expect i suppose, but CAT would want to be looking pretty clean, scent of their involvement .... well , they haven't signed ... ideally giving them the bird and AVZ moving off and tying a deal with someone else would be a shot to the heart

I'm with @wombat74 and have had the same opinion for quite a while and that is that once this thing gets ML, then the claws are going to be out; turbulent and weathering waters ; SP smashed from euphoric levels, cockroaches spilling out of the jar from all angles; Ferguson has to be well over dealing with Chinese and DRC bullshite by now. shareholders battered and bruised.... there will be an AVZ percentage of project offer IMO no matter how this thing spills out on the floor after it starts to trade again; the project is just too important, some body shots in an attempt to tenderize it up front and see how it fairs up..then see how much it takes to push the weary AVZ train of its rails; no doubt they'll be paying alot higher than current MC valve , but probably a fair bit less than if it was left to continue to run north from where we were at $1.20/1.30
The good thing about this article is that it shows just about all the bullshit about the current ownership situation and that gives everyone a chance to analyse and strategies our position. It seems like another boatman style attack before the suspension date is due and hopefully someone will send this article off to Nigel asap. Obe, I think CATH have put $20 million into an account already, and whoever breaks the TIA (AVZ or CATH) has to pay $20mil in compensation (and to be open, that’s probably fuck all for CATH). Even though I alluded to it in the past, I didn’t want to openly say it (just in case of legal implications) but it was Nigel that told me at the Sydney presentation that the Chinese were trying to screw us. Nigel may not have known CATH was sly, but has long been aware of the Chinese tactics and has said all along that we have been in discussions with Felix and Felix was supporting us, and Felix has been bragging for months about AVZ developing Manono and being on the Battery Council so in spite of the dirty Chinese tactics and lack of open commentary by Felix these (along with having good lawyers) are all positives. If worse came to worse regarding ownership, it’s worth remembering that the Chinese would have to commit more to financing than us, would increase output to 10mtpa and would build the infrastructure in half the time. AVZ is still looking okay as far as I can see, there was the recent ruling that Zigin’s ownership attempt was illegal and this latest article is another short style attack by unscrupulous paid stooge’s. Even though I believe the article is bullshit, I like reading about all the behind the scenes wangling and possibilities as it assists in forming strategies and responses
 
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I am a new poster on this forum and obviously got on the wrong foot with a few here, remember I still bear a grudge against the arseholes on the crapper who put shit on me (even though being suspended from the crapper was the best thing that happened to me!!). But I have to get on with my other things and just wanted to say these last two things 1) The article on telegram may be the case Zigin, Dathomir etc are trying to put forward, but it doesn’t mean any of it is legal or fact, and 2) Be emotionally prepared if we stay in suspension for another month and try and have faith that right will win over wrong!!!!
 
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LOCKY82

Regular
I am a new poster on this forum and obviously got on the wrong foot with a few here, remember I still bear a grudge against the arseholes on the crapper who put shit on me (even though being suspended from the crapper was the best thing that happened to me!!). But I have to get on with my other things and just wanted to say these last two things 1) The article on telegram may be the case Zigin, Dathomir etc are trying to put forward, but it doesn’t mean any of it is legal or fact, and 2) Be emotionally prepared if we stay in suspension for another month and try and have faith that right will win over wrong!!!!
100% agree with you here, I have prepared myself for these monthly extensions to be a theme for the meantime while management try and navigate what looks like an attempt to weasel this project away on the cheap. I do think pressure should be kept on management from shareholders via email (not Twitter or phone calls!) To ensure they can an will update us shareholders wherever possible. IMO
Good luck to us all.
 
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cruiser51

Top 20
AVZ made following ASX announcement on 01/06/2022:

Extension of End Date to the Transaction Implementation Agreement

AVZ Minerals Limited (ASX: AVZ, OTCQX: AZZVF) (“AVZ” or “Company”) refers to the Transaction Implementation Agreement (“TIA”) with Suzhou CATH Energy Technologies (“CATH”) as detailed in the Company’s ASX Announcements dated 27 September 2021 “Cornerstone investor secured for development of Manono Lithium and Tin Project” and 16 February 2022 “Expedited completion of US$240M cornerstone investment with CATH”.
The Company confirms that the parties to the TIA have agreed to amend the end date to 31 July 2022 to provide for completion of closure formalities.
The parties are committed to close the TIA as early as practically possible to progress the development of the Manono Lithium and Tin Project.
This announcement was authorised for release by Nigel Ferguson, Managing Director of AVZ Minerals Limited.

In other words, regardless of what has been written, the 24% of Dathcom has not been transferred to anybody and AVZ is still the majority holder as of today.

Which effectively means that the article that Cominiere could sell 15% of Dathcomn to Zijin, because AVZ is not the majority holder of Dathcom, regardless of the shimozzle about the Dathomir 15%, is simply put a lot of cock.

AVZ still has the option to tell CATH and friends to take a hike. Capital raise the $240 million and develop Manono without CATH.
 
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Samus

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I am a new poster on this forum and obviously got on the wrong foot with a few here, remember I still bear a grudge against the arseholes on the crapper who put shit on me (even though being suspended from the crapper was the best thing that happened to me!!). But I have to get on with my other things and just wanted to say these last two things 1) The article on telegram may be the case Zigin, Dathomir etc are trying to put forward, but it doesn’t mean any of it is legal or fact, and 2) Be emotionally prepared if we stay in suspension for another month and try and have faith that right will win over wrong!!!!
Just remember the good thing about this new forum is that it is for genuine holders only and so far the discussions have been respectful despite differing opinions.
This isn't the Crapper and there is no reason to come in guns blazing and start putting anybody down. We can agree to disagree here in a respectful manner and there is no reason to be uptight.
Leave the crap on the Crapper, the only people who've been booted from here (via community consensus) are trolls and one guy who showed complete asshole levels of disrespect towards other posters.
Welcome @MoneyBags1348 I for one remember your post on the Crapper before suspension which I though contained some very valid points despite the usual suspects shooting it down. I think your notes have proven that you have a finger on the pulse more than many shareholders.
Take a breath and relax, soak up the better vibes and thanks for the contributions.
 
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Tursty

Member
AVZ made following ASX announcement on 01/06/2022:

Extension of End Date to the Transaction Implementation Agreement

AVZ Minerals Limited (ASX: AVZ, OTCQX: AZZVF) (“AVZ” or “Company”) refers to the Transaction Implementation Agreement (“TIA”) with Suzhou CATH Energy Technologies (“CATH”) as detailed in the Company’s ASX Announcements dated 27 September 2021 “Cornerstone investor secured for development of Manono Lithium and Tin Project” and 16 February 2022 “Expedited completion of US$240M cornerstone investment with CATH”.
The Company confirms that the parties to the TIA have agreed to amend the end date to 31 July 2022 to provide for completion of closure formalities.
The parties are committed to close the TIA as early as practically possible to progress the development of the Manono Lithium and Tin Project.
This announcement was authorised for release by Nigel Ferguson, Managing Director of AVZ Minerals Limited.

In other words, regardless of what has been written, the 24% of Dathcom has not been transferred to anybody and AVZ is still the majority holder as of today.

Which effectively means that the article that Cominiere could sell 15% of Dathcomn to Zijin, because AVZ is not the majority holder of Dathcom, regardless of the shimozzle about the Dathomir 15%, is simply put a lot of cock.

AVZ still has the option to tell CATH and friends to take a hike. Capital raise the $240 million and develop Manono without CATH.
Just hope that one of those Chinese companies that already sits in AVZ's top 20 doesn't buy all $240 million worth of new shares and increase their influence over AVZ right!

Edit - I know I know.....not how capital raises work, but 600 shell companies later and shady intent and who knows what could happen :LOL:
 
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Xerof

Biding my Time 1971
Just hope that one of those Chinese companies that already sits in AVZ's top 20 doesn't buy all $240 million worth of new shares and increase their influence over AVZ right!

Edit - I know I know.....not how capital raises work, but 600 shell companies later and shady intent and who knows what could happen :LOL:
CATH is buying 24% of the project via DATHCOM, not buying AVZ shares, as FIRB would tell them to piss off again. AVZ have total control over whether or not they will let this parcel go, to CATH or anyone else. Thankfully, that is something they CAN control, at the moment
 
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Frank

Top 20
The good thing about this article is that it shows just about all the bullshit about the current ownership situation and that gives everyone a chance to analyse and strategies our position. It seems like another boatman style attack before the suspension date is due and hopefully someone will send this article off to Nigel asap. Obe, I think CATH have put $20 million into an account already, and whoever breaks the TIA (AVZ or CATH) has to pay $20mil in compensation (and to be open, that’s probably fuck all for CATH). Even though I alluded to it in the past, I didn’t want to openly say it (just in case of legal implications) but it was Nigel that told me at the Sydney presentation that the Chinese were trying to screw us. Nigel may not have known CATH was sly, but has long been aware of the Chinese tactics and has said all along that we have been in discussions with Felix and Felix was supporting us, and Felix has been bragging for months about AVZ developing Manono and being on the Battery Council so in spite of the dirty Chinese tactics and lack of open commentary by Felix these (along with having good lawyers) are all positives. If worse came to worse regarding ownership, it’s worth remembering that the Chinese would have to commit more to financing than us, would increase output to 10mtpa and would build the infrastructure in half the time. AVZ is still looking okay as far as I can see, there was the recent ruling that Zigin’s ownership attempt was illegal and this latest article is another short style attack by unscrupulous paid stooge’s. Even though I believe the article is bullshit, I like reading about all the behind the scenes wangling and possibilities as it assists in forming strategies and responses

*Fyi, Speaking of "China Plates" screwing us, I see where,

Pro-China digital campaign targets mining firms – cybersecurity report

A pro-China propaganda campaign used fake social media accounts to try to stir up opposition, including protests, against mining firms that challenge China’s business interests, US-based cybersecurity firm Mandiant said on Tuesday.
blank.gif

While politically motivated disinformation campaigns on social media have grown increasingly common, researchers say, such an operation targeting a specific industry of strategic importance to China is rare.

The digital campaign, known to researchers as Dragonbridge, flooded Twitter and Facebook in recent months with posts raising environmental and health concerns over the operations of three major mining firms: Australia’s Lynas Rare Earths Ltd, Canada’s Appia Rare Earths and Uranium Corp, and USA Rare Earth.

China’s Computer Emergency Response Team (CERT) and embassy in Washington did not respond to a request for comment.

Lynas and Appia told Reuters they heard of the campaign from Mandiant.

“We tried to investigate what happened, but we couldn’t figure out anything,” Appia Chief Executive Tom Drivas said.

USA Rare Earth, as well as social media firms Facebook and Twitter, did not respond to requests for comment.

The bogus social media accounts got more aggressive this month after the latter two firms laid out new mining plans, Mandiant said in its report.

The report said the campaign against Lynas called for protests over its planned construction of a rare earths processing facility in Texas.

While it failed to launch actual protests, accounts pretended they were successful by posting photos of unrelated, older protests in Malaysia.

Some posts specifically criticized US President Joe Biden’s move in March to invoke a law aimed at reducing US reliance on Chinese minerals.

China dominates the global market for rare earth elements – a critical geopolitical leverage, foreign policy experts say.

“An operation like this requires a well-funded and well-staffed entity,
” said John Hultquist, Mandiant’s vice president of intelligence.

Mandiant said it lacked enough data to attribute the activity to a specific known actor.

While the campaign’s impact appeared limited and most of the social media accounts were recently removed, Hultquist said it could mean other business competitors to China will be similarly targeted in the future. :unsure:

Some of the fake accounts invaded a public, environmentally-conscious Facebook group to allege the mining firms and the US government were trying to expose local populations to radioactive contamination. :rolleyes:

“This is a particularly interesting case because they’re co-opting existing political movements and attitudes to gain support for their strategic goals,” said Dakota Cary, a security consultant focused on China at the Krebs Stamos Group.

www.mining.com/category/battery-metals


things-that-make-you-go-hmm.jpg


Food for thought "Chinese Takeaway" :unsure:

Cheers 🥢

Frank 🤞
 
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Xerof

Biding my Time 1971
AVZ made following ASX announcement on 01/06/2022:

Extension of End Date to the Transaction Implementation Agreement

AVZ Minerals Limited (ASX: AVZ, OTCQX: AZZVF) (“AVZ” or “Company”) refers to the Transaction Implementation Agreement (“TIA”) with Suzhou CATH Energy Technologies (“CATH”) as detailed in the Company’s ASX Announcements dated 27 September 2021 “Cornerstone investor secured for development of Manono Lithium and Tin Project” and 16 February 2022 “Expedited completion of US$240M cornerstone investment with CATH”.
The Company confirms that the parties to the TIA have agreed to amend the end date to 31 July 2022 to provide for completion of closure formalities.
The parties are committed to close the TIA as early as practically possible to progress the development of the Manono Lithium and Tin Project.
This announcement was authorised for release by Nigel Ferguson, Managing Director of AVZ Minerals Limited.

In other words, regardless of what has been written, the 24% of Dathcom has not been transferred to anybody and AVZ is still the majority holder as of today.

Which effectively means that the article that Cominiere could sell 15% of Dathcomn to Zijin, because AVZ is not the majority holder of Dathcom, regardless of the shimozzle about the Dathomir 15%, is simply put a lot of cock.

AVZ still has the option to tell CATH and friends to take a hike. Capital raise the $240 million and develop Manono without CATH.
Your last line: I genuinely hope they are assessing that as an option - raise AUD 500 mill, borrow the other 500, and go it alone. I saw an article today that G7 are to put 600 billion into infrastructure in low and middle income countries, with emphasis on battery infrastructure. I know a good site for that
 
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Frank

Top 20
Mate Glencore are now advertising on tv ch7 during peak times, wtf is with that shit !

It’s not for jobs or hiring it’s just to let people know who they are….

Some weird shit going on…..
Maybe I should roll another joint also…

GLTAH

*Fyi, This might have something to do with it, As i see where,

At Australia mine, Glencore balances reforestation drive, coal profit

At Glencore’s aging Mt Owen open-cut coal mines north of Sydney, a team of scientists and engineers is restoring woodlands to mined-out fields, aiming to burnish the company’s environmental credentials with climate activists and shareholders who want it to back away from coal.
blank.gif

But just hundreds of metres away, active mines still churn out nearly 7 million tonnes of coal a year, and are due to keep producing for 15 more years, as they fuel the company’s profits from surging coal prices.

Keen both to maximise profit and to satisfy activist shareholders demanding action on the climate, Glencore has said it plans to hit net-zero carbon emissions by 2050 and “responsibly deplete its coal assets over time”.


It has also invested in the rehabilitation of coal operations across Australia, spending A$43 million ($30 million) in 2020.

“Glencore is still mining coal, which is a huge contributor to climate change … and trying to convince people that they are doing it better than they used to,” said Gavin Mudd, an associate professor for environmental engineering at RMIT University in Melbourne.

“But it’s not doing anywhere nearly enough to make the transition out of coal.”


At the Mt Owen operation 140 miles (225 km) north of Sydney, acquired in 1998 as one of Glencore’s first mining investments in Australia, about 1,600 hectares have been rehabilitated, or about half the land that was disrupted for mining activity, the company said.

“Our entire workforce … are members of the local community and they want to leave something that provides a platform for high quality and productive post-mining land uses for future generations,” Jason Desmond, the Environment & Community Manager at Glencore’s Mt Owen Glendell Complex, told Reuters in a visit to the mine earlier this month.

A team of about 500 people will oversee the return of large swathes of coal mines to forest habitat, the company has said.

Glencore is Australia’s largest coal producer with 17 active mining operations that last year produced 100 million tonnes of thermal coal, used to generate electricity, and coking coal, used to make steel.

Almost all of it is exported.

Glencore forecast profits for its trading division to exceed $3.2 billion in the first half of this year, boosted by soaring prices that are due in large part to supply disruptions caused by the Ukraine conflict.

Transition from coal​

Not all shareholders are happy about the bonanza.

About 24% of investors voted against Glencore’s climate progress report in April, citing slow results in scaling back coal production.

The world’s biggest climate action investor group, Climate Action 100+ (CA100+), flagged to members in April its concern that Glencore’s emissions targets and coal production were not consistent with the world’s climate goal.

Rival Anglo-Australian miner Rio Tinto sold its last coal mines in 2018, becoming the first mining major to go coal-free, while BHP Group Ltd has also been trying to get out of coal.


RMIT University’s Mudd also raised questions about rehabilitation projects.

Not enough coal mines have been turned off permanently, so the impact on ground water and ecology after the area is rehabilitated will take years to understand, he said.

“The industry cannot claim with certainty and confidently that it can be done well,” he said.

Pressure for environmental action has been building on corporations in Australia since a newly elected government threw its weight behind tackling climate change.

Former Prime Minister Scott Morrison, who once brandished a chunk of coal in parliament to show his support for the industry, was voted out in May and replaced by Anthony Albanese, who has committed to an ambitious emissions reduction target of 43% by 2030 under the Paris Agreement.

In Australia’s Hunter region, which houses Glencore’s Mt Owen mine and has supplied coal for more than 200 years, local entrepreneurs are now among the leaders of the country’s renewable energy transition.

“We started in 2015 when we saw a politician bringing coal into parliament and laughing about it,” said Brian Craighead, Founder of Energy Renaissance, a privately held company that makes lithium-ion batteries for storage uses such as grid support for utilities and heavy-duty commercial vehicles.

“Every time we sell a product that means somebody’s not burning fossil fuel,” he said.


Green energy think tank Beyond Zero Emissions said renewable energy would support the region’s diversification from coal.

“While we’ve got some of the best coal resources in the world, we also have the best sun and wind profiles in the world,” said Heidi Lee, the think-tank’s chief executive.

BEV.png



The-future-is-Electric !!!.jpg



Understanding-Change-Where-Paradigms-.jpg


Food for thought on the Road to Mining Manono Bro 🔋

Cheers 🍻

Frank :cool:
 
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cruiser51

Top 20

The Rise and Precarious Reign of China’s Battery King​

Zeng Yuqun is China’s most prolific battery billionaire. His ascent has major implications for a world increasingly reliant on electric vehicles.

China's Electric Dream​

Western automakers built their fortunes on the internal combustion engine. Now China has ambitions to define the electric vehicle age.

THE HEADQUARTERS OF battery giant CATL tower over the coastal Chinese city of Ningde. To the untrained eye, the building resembles a huge slide rising out of the urban sprawl. It is, in fact, a giant monument to the company’s raison d'être: the lithium-ion battery pack.

You may have never heard of CATL, but you’ve definitely heard of the brands that rely on its batteries. The company supplies more than 30 percent of the world’s EV batteries and counts Tesla, Kia and BMW amongst its clients. Its founder and chairman, 54-year-old Zeng Yuqun, also known as Robin Zeng, has rapidly emerged as the industry’s kingmaker. Insiders describe Zeng as savvy, direct, and even abrasive. Under his leadership, CATL’s valuation has ballooned to 1.2 trillion Chinese yuan ($179 billion), more than General Motors and Ford combined. Part of that fortune is built on owning stakes in mining projects in China, the Democratic Republic of Congo, and Indonesia, giving CATL a tighter grip on an already strained global battery supply chain.

Such scale gives CATL huge influence—and allows the company to be picky with its contracts and push the rising prices of raw materials onto its clients. “They're pretty much dictating the terms,” says Mark Greeven, professor of innovation and strategy at IMD Business School in Lausanne, Switzerland. CATL pushes clients for long-term, five-year deals. and it’s reluctant to customize its batteries for different carmakers, he adds.


So far, these decisions have helped make Zeng rich—very rich. He ranks 29th on Forbes’ 2022 list of the world’s wealthiest people. On Bloomberg’s 2021 list of the world’s top green billionaires, he is second only to Tesla CEO Elon Musk. Musk might make more headlines, but Zeng holds almost as much power.

But Zeng is not Musk. He dodges the limelight and rarely gives interviews. Insiders point out that Zeng is operating in an environment where notoriety could hinder, not help, his business. “In the West, the personality-cult style of leadership is something that’s valued, encouraged, and celebrated. In China, it's dangerous,” says Bill Russo, former head of carmaker Chrysler’s northeast Asia business in Beijing who now runs the Shanghai-based advisory firm Automobility. “You can't be bigger than Beijing.” Carmakers are also becoming wary of how much power CATL has as they search elsewhere for batteries to power their vehicles.


ZENG’S ARRIVAL ON the EV battery scene can be traced back to 2010—and a meeting with Herbert Diess, who was purchasing manager for BMW at the time. Diess, who is now CEO of Volkswagen, had embarked on an international mission to persuade companies making mobile phone batteries to pivot to electric cars. He tried European companies, including Germany’s Bosch. But he also approached Zeng, who at the time was running a subsidiary of the Japanese electronics company TDK. Retelling the story in an internal meeting in May 2022, Diess described Zeng’s initial reaction as dismissive—it was, Zeng said, impossible for him to build such big batteries.


But, so the story goes, Diess’ plea for batteries stuck. In 2011, Zeng led a group of Chinese investors to acquire a 85 percent stake in TDK’s EV battery business, which they called CATL. BMW was its first key account. “Diess brought our company into the car battery business,” Zeng told Handelsblatt in 2020. “I am grateful to him for that.”


Diess might have inspired CATL to enter the EV market, but over the years Zeng earned a reputation as a founder who could master batteries as well as business. When he bought a US patent for mobile phone batteries in the early 2000s, he worked to improve the battery design himself, according to Lei Xing, former editor of Beijing-based media outlet China Auto Review. When BMW agreed to use CATL as its battery supplier, it was Zeng who read the 800 pages of requirements line by line, according to Yunfei Feng, a research associate at IMD Business School.

The attention Zeng paid to the technical details was crucial. When CATL started making car batteries, another Chinese company, BYD, was considered the market leader. But, as it grew, CATL made its technical supremacy pay. At the time, BYD used lithium iron phosphate batteries, while CATL used a combination of nickel, manganese, and cobalt, or NMC. “NMC had longer ranges,” says Xing. And when China rolled out EV subsidies in 2015, batteries with longer ranges received more support. “This benefited CATL tremendously,” Xing adds.

Subsidies were a crucial part of CATL’s success, and many analysts point to Beijing’s Made in China 2025 plan as key to the company’s evolution. The policy was designed to boost strategic high-tech sectors, including EVs. Between 2009 and 2021, around 100 billion yuan ($14.8 billion) in subsidies were handed to car buyers, according to an estimate by China Merchants Bank International. As a result, Chinese consumers received tax breaks for choosing EVs over combustion engines, but only if those EVs included batteries made with Chinese cells. That drove demand for CATL batteries not just among Chinese EV makers but also among international firms trying to tap into the lucrative Chinese market.

Buoyed by the subsidy, Zeng worked to raise money so the company could invest in its supply chain and pour cash into research and development. Between 2015 and 2017, CATL raised over $2 billion in equity financing before going public in June 2018, according to Kevin Shang, research analyst at Wood Mackenzie’s global energy storage team. “They were able to invest in the whole supply chain, from mining to materials manufacturing to the battery cells making and even to recycling.”

And as CATL grows, the company is expanding beyond China. Its first plant outside its home country is expected to open in the central German state of Thuringia later this year. In anticipation, Zeng has made himself accessible to the German car industry. “If you write him an email, he will answer very fast,” says Ferdinand Dudenhöffer, director of Germany’s Center for Automotive Research, a research institute that produces reports for the country’s carmakers. Dudenhöffer met Zeng at the Frankfurt Auto Show three years ago, where the CATL founder complained to him about the lack of government subsidies his firm was receiving in Germany. CATL decided to set up in Germany before EU subsidies for battery manufacturers had been finalized, meaning the company couldn’t apply for support, says Dudenhöffer. “He very quickly picked up on the problems.”

Germany, which produces more cars than any other European country, was quick to realize the importance of collaborating with Chinese firms, says Dudenhöffer. “The industry knows China is very important,” he says. “If you don't stay in contact, do business and joint research with Chinese companies, you will not be in a leading position.” But elsewhere, the automotive industry is growing wary of CATL’s influence.

The global shortage of semiconductors has made car firms hyper-aware of supply chain bottlenecks. That’s pushing them to strike deals with CATL’s competitors or to try to build out their own battery plants—a trend that is worrying Zeng’s investors. CATL’s stock dropped 7 percent after competitor BYD said it would supply batteries to Tesla “very soon.” General Motors, another CATL client, is planning a new US battery plant in partnership with South Korea's LG Energy Solution. Toyota is planning to open its own battery plantin North Carolina, and Ford is building twin battery plants in Kentucky.

“The policy of the automotive industry for a long time has been that they never single-source, because that gives too much power in the relationship to the supplier,” Russo says. “What does that mean for the likes of CATL? It means you’re going to have more competition.” CATL’s take-it-or-leave-it attitude is also pushing carmakers to consider working with smaller companies, who might have less experience but are more willing to customize their products, Greeven adds.


But weaning the industry off its reliance on CATL won’t be easy. Carmakers will find it difficult to manufacture high-quality batteries at a low enough cost, especially without CATL’s scale and expertise, says Shang.

Squeezed by an industry concerned by its position of power, CATL has doubled the number of its R&D employees between 2020 and 2021 to more than 10,000 people. It has also been securing new lithium supplies, spending $130 million in April on a mine in southern China. At the same time, the company has created new products to address existing industry problems, announcing plans in July 2021 to start producing sodium-ion batteries. Such breakthroughs could be crucial—sodium is the sixth-most-common element on earth, and batteries that use it would ease the car industry’s reliance on lithium, which could face major shortages as early as this year.

But it might not be the global car industry that ends Zeng’s rise—but China itself. His ascent coincides with an uneasy time for Chinese billionaires, with last year’s tech crackdown wiping billions off some of the country’s most profitable companies. The Chinese government had accused the technology industry of fueling wider inequality in the country, and Alibaba cofounder Jack Ma became the face of the crackdown. The billionaire, who had his own TV show called Africa’s Business Heroes and starred in his own action movie, fell from grace after giving a speech that criticized Chinese regulators for stifling innovation. Alibaba’s IPO was swiftly canceled and it received a record $2.8 billion antitrust fine. Around $10 billion has been wiped off Ma’s wealth since this time last year, according to Bloomberg’s billionaire index, as his fortune tracks Alibaba’s slide in value since the crackdown.

The move against Ma can be partly attributed to China’s “common prosperity” drive—an effort to reduce the gap between rich and poor—which president Xi Jinping has described as one of the country’s most important goals over the next 15 years. Although the pressure on tech has eased since last year, the push for common prosperity has continued. In June, banks in China were told to rein in executive pay. Ma’s downfall points to how the Chinese Community Party’s pursuit of “common prosperity” could affect Chinese billionaires, who also represent an alternative power base to Beijing.

As the most successful of China's growing cadre of EV billionaires, that puts Zeng at risk of becoming a target. “Zeng is richer than Jack Ma, but he is definitely not as noisy,” says Greeven. Despite that, CATL has already faced a soft rebuke for its behavior. In November 2021, the Shenzhen Stock Exchange raised concerns about CATL financing “excessively.” A crackdown on the electric vehicle and battery industries in China could have a profound impact on an industry the whole world is relying on for the green transition. China produced 44 percent of the world's EVs in the last decade and around 80 percent of the world’s lithium-ion batteries. In the short term, that share is projected to rise.
 
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Your last line: I genuinely hope they are assessing that as an option - raise AUD 500 mill, borrow the other 500, and go it alone. I saw an article today that G7 are to put 600 billion into infrastructure in low and middle income countries, with emphasis on battery infrastructure. I know a good site for that
Not that $20mil is all that much considering what is at stake, but you and Cruiser should remember that whoever breaks the TIA has to pay a break fee of $20mil. Personally I would be looking elsewhere to another battery manufacturer (or trying to amend the terms to 19%, AVZ keeping an extra 5%) but CAT is the world’s biggest battery manufacturer, I imagine the DRC is looking to them to build the facility near Manono, and I also imagine that CAT doesn’t even want to build it there as they have already spent billions building battery manufacturing plants in Yibin and elsewhere in China. I also wouldn’t be surprised if CATH are happy to just pay as little as they can for the offtake, partly meaning that they would be happy not building a battery manufacturing plant in the DRC and just expect AVZ to pay all freight, insurance and other costs to get the products to China. I don’t know how many here consider all the possibilities involved (these are just a few I consider) but I have close to 3 million shares in AVZ so I try to imagine what possibilities might affect my investment. Maybe this is a little too much information, but fuck it, I can tell you from my conversations with Nigel in Sydney, I have invested more of my own money in AVZ than he had. I’m not dirty on him having all his shares, he’s done all the work, but I do wish other investors would put more effort into researching the facts and possibilities and offer strategies that help Nigel and us all as shareholders
 
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cruiser51

Top 20
continuation of CATL story:

Concerns have been raised that Beijing would rather replace CATL and other battery giants with a network of small and medium-size businesses. But experts are divided on how much risk CATL is facing. “What Jack Ma does versus what Robin Zeng does, it's completely different,” says Xing. But Russo believes CATL’s risk depends on whether Zeng can continue to balance his government relationships with his public persona.

CATL may have been crucial in helping China develop its EV supremacy, but the recent tech crackdown provides a warning that Beijing can abruptly reorganize its industries if they start to clash with wider political ambitions. There are already hints of how that might play out. In 2015, businesses controlled by a state-owned aerospace company and a district government cofounded CALB, a state-operated firm which also specializes in lithium-ion battery production. Such a move could pit CATL against the Chinese state itself.

The two firms have already clashed, with CATL accusing CALB of patent infringement and seeking damages of 518 million yuan ($77.4 million). And the legal dispute is intensifying just as CALB prepares to list on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange later this year. In its IPO prospectus, CALB describes itself as China’s second-largest EV battery company and seventh in the world. But with a state-owned company now vying for control of China’s battery production industry, it’s no sure thing that will remain the case. “Too much dominance is a bottleneck,” says Russo. “And that’s something that neither industry nor government would want.”
 
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Bin59

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Not that $20mil is all that much considering what is at stake, but you and Cruiser should remember that whoever breaks the TIA has to pay a break fee of $20mil. Personally I would be looking elsewhere to another battery manufacturer (or trying to amend the terms to 19%, AVZ keeping an extra 5%) but CAT is the world’s biggest battery manufacturer, I imagine the DRC is looking to them to build the facility near Manono, and I also imagine that CAT doesn’t even want to build it there as they have already spent billions building battery manufacturing plants in Yibin and elsewhere in China. I also wouldn’t be surprised if CATH are happy to just pay as little as they can for the offtake, partly meaning that they would be happy not building a battery manufacturing plant in the DRC and just expect AVZ to pay all freight, insurance and other costs to get the products to China. I don’t know how many here consider all the possibilities involved (these are just a few I consider) but I have close to 3 million shares in AVZ so I try to imagine what possibilities might affect my investment. Maybe this is a little too much information, but fuck it, I can tell you from my conversations with Nigel in Sydney, I have invested more of my own money in AVZ than he had. I’m not dirty on him having all his shares, he’s done all the work, but I do wish other investors would put more effort into researching the facts and possibilities and offer strategies that help Nigel and us all as shareholders
“I do wish other investors would put more effort into researching the facts and possibilities and offer strategies that help Nigel and us all as shareholders”

Hi MoneyBags, I appreciate your comments but without being privy to all the facts & information wouldn’t it be almost impossible for shareholders to try to work out strategies for the company, especially when out of necessity they’re holding their cards so close to their chest. I’m sure they / the board & legal team have varying strategies on the table for the different possible scenarios.
For what it’s worth, when I saw the 13359 tenement appearing as two parcels I did wonder if the the CL project (on the split tenement) might be progressed at the same time, by bringing on another “actor” in to ensure both projects are advanced in a timely manner.
 
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Xerof

Biding my Time 1971
13359 does not appear as 2 parcels. It has been clipped back to cover RD and the bit of CL that has had the drill into it. The other piece remains to this day unallocated, without a tenement number. BUT, I keep referring people to what AVZ have said

An area which was excluded under the Ministerial Decree to award the Mining Licence, will be renewed under a 5-year Exploration Licence to Dathcom, with discussions regarding the terms of the ongoing joint venture under discussion with the DRC Government
 
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