AVZ Discussion 2022

[RHyNO]

Fucking amazing! Australian federal government shoots itself in the cock again! Give away the gas! Give away the iron ore! Give the Iranian propaganda machine the right to speak in our parliament. Now get in and side with the Chinese corruption of the AVZ deal, see if you can’t give away the lithium!!!. Unbelievable! The Feds should have raided Tommy’s fucking office! What’s your motivation you absolute treasonous swine!!! All to feed shorts!! All being played like chess by the ccp. Thank fuck our BOD is making every effort to be beyond reproach.

 

[Flight996]

A couple of days ago I wrote that '...the AFP does not go around casually obtaining and executing search warrants in the absence of at least some prima-face evidence of wrong-doing by somebody'.

I wish to withdraw that comment.

It is now abundantly clear that the AFP clearly does go around casually obtaining and executing search warrants in the absence of evidence of wrong-doing.

Unfortunately, at the time of writing I was sober.

Cheers
F

 

[ptlas]

A couple of days ago I wrote that '...the AFP does not go around casually obtaining and executing search warrants in the absence of at least some prima-face evidence of wrong-doing by somebody'.

I wish to withdraw that comment.

It is now abundantly clear that the AFP clearly does go around casually obtaining and executing search warrants in the absence of evidence of wrong-doing.

Unfortunately, at the time of writing I was sober.

Cheers
F

Problem is that it's all smoke & mirrors, so we frequently spend our time peeing in the wind.
Maybe you should drink more. I know I should.

Wouldn't be surprised if @Yaseen was right about Klaus.

Whoever made the complaint will cover their backs and/or hide in China and we'll possibly never know who it was.

Whatever happened, I'm more than happy with BoD doing their bit foreseeing this problem and attempting to nip it in the bud.

Again, it shows the desperation of the Chrimese.
Expect more crap

CUNTS

 

[BEISHA]

This was posted today by Anatol on the crapper.
Essentially, it relates to LTR but addresses near and mid-term lithium prices.

Enjoy:

I explained the details about the cost of Australian spod producers on my Post #:76585895 on Nov.13.

Those producers do not give their AISC (All-in-sustained-cash, everything is included, including royalties) cost. They only give their C1 FOB or CIF cash cost which only the operating cost are included. AISC cost is the final cost. It's the real cost. LTR has given it (Mid point US$835/t).

LTR's cost is being the second best after Greenbushes because LTR has a brand new mine, plant, equipment, and more importantly high grade single ore body and an underground mine.

While LTR can reach its high grade ore easily through its U/G mine, and lower its costs over the time, the other producers now have a big problem to reach their high grade ore sections because they have to remove huge amounts of waste material (overburden rock and soil) over their high grade pegmatites. Removing those waste material is also a very high cost.

1. Mt Marion of MIN/Ganfeng; can't even produce over 4.1% spod), deferred its U/G mine plans.
2. Wodgina of MIN/Albemarle; Albemarle forces MIN to reduce the production in half, as they declared that the C1 cash cost at US$642/t, which makes the AISC cost over US$900/t. Wodgina partners were also talking about U/G mining option but it's too late for them too.
3. Pilgangoora of PLS; was mining its highest grade ore of 1.5% in recent quarters despite its ave. grade is only 1.15%%. It was also looking to make U/G mine plans but I think PLS is also late to do that. PLS has given its C1 FOB cost around US$406/t recently but I believe Pilgangoora's AISC cost is also over US$900/t as it's at the same region with Wodgina and has an older tech plant than Wodgina.
4. Mt Holland of Covelant Lithium (WES/SQM JV) is still in commissioning mode and their aim is to feed the 350kt (which is small amount) spod to its own lithium hydroxide plant which is still under construction. The project will be active next year.
5. Bald Hill of MIN (ex A40) is also a small project, very high C1 cost announced and now in C&M.
6. Mt Cattlin of Arcadium (Now RIO) was also a very small project and run out of ore. It's already dead.

You can see the big picture here. It's very simple.

There are no other projects other than these shown on the map.

If those projects won't sell cheap China wouldn't be able to find lithium from the other parts of the world. It's not possible.

The Chinese needs Australian spod like crazy.
But we are selling our spod very cheap like crazy as well.
The Chinese non-integrated lepidolite production is nearly dead.
The African spod production is already dead.
And the EV production in China is at record level.
Making a record high every month.
And the BEOT wants us to believe that lithium is dead..!

All Australian lithium producers are making loss or at the breakeven point (LTR's case now) atm (other than Greenbushes, which is under Chinese control). That means the Australian spod mines produce lithium and pays more (the loss) on top of cost to get the Chinese buy it..! That's stupid.

So those manipulators playing with LTR's stock price every day for a purpose. However it's not possible that Tim Goyder, his supporters, his team and we the long term holders would sell to a cheap takeover offer. It is just not possible.

It's not possible to convince anyone that LTR's mcap at $1.5b is justifiable.

It is so obvious that it's just the result of heavy manipulation. LTR spent more than $1b just for the mine and project. If we add up everything it might be close to $1.5b.

The resource value is not included in that! I can give you many examples about the resource value. Just look at the recent AZS value, or go back and see how much WES paid to 90mt resource of Kidman ($750) in the worst time of lithium, Albemarle paid over $1.7b (US$1.15b) for 50% of Wodgina resource (around 110mt at 1.15%) on Dec. 2018 at the worst time of lithium again).

So the current mcap valuation of LTR is ridiculous. The BEOT wants us to see hallucinations.

It's not possible that LTR would go into a hard situation because of its stock price is capped at low price. LTR is producing and selling, receiving cash.

We already sold nearly a 100kt spod. It's a lot in just 5 months including commissioning and ramp up. The cash is coming in. Now we will start shipping to Tesla, then LG, and then Ford. This is just a matter of time.

The 60c stock price is already shocking for us but I am not selling (talking on my behalf).

The lower the price the worse for the manipulators, because I won't sell anyway. I know many holders are selling their other stocks (which remains high) and buying more LTR atm.

If LTR needs money it won't be hard to get credit as it's already producing and receiving cash. No commissioning or ramp up risk anymore. All done and finished.

Therefore, those BEOT guys and their shorters are just dreaming about any kind of CR. When we need cash we wouldn't make an ordinary CR, we would do similar kind of stake sale as we did with LG.

This part is from my older post. Just to remember;

Again; Lithium over supply narrative is not true
It's the Chinese gov's subsidies keep the lithium price low.

The instos and brokers, and the downrampers are all asking the same question; "If the lithium price goes down more, what are you going to do?"

I don't understand why they don't see that those lithium prices are absolutely artificial, created by Chinese gov's subsidies to its lithium producers in and out of China. And China was clearly accused of doing that by the EU commission after the EU made investigation in China.

Lower lithium price is not possible.
We have already touched the bottom and going up.

On the shorting side of the market everyone is dreaming for lower lithium prices but it's just not possible. Any good and unbiased analyst can see that. There is only one way for the lithium prices to go, and it's up.

Let's have a look at the facts now.

• The cost of producing spod concentrate in Australia is higher than Chinese spot price(except Greenbushes which is under Chinese control)
• Australia supplies 50% of world lithium demand.
• If Australia can't produce lithium by an incentive price, supply side will collapse
• And lithium prices will be sky-rocketed.

One thing is certain. The cost of producing spod concentrate is quite high atm. LTR gave its C1 cash cost and AISC cost honestly and clearly, and informed the market how they will deal with it. That's why the market's reaction has been positive.

Before I explain the costs of Australian spod producers I need to give this information;

• Non-steep cash cost curve of production and very tight supply/demand balance will cause much higher lithium prices from now on.

• However no new tier-1 project will come online for the next five years.

• The new projects will require higher incentive lithium prices; over US$1400/t, because the AISC cost is over US$900/t for most of the spod projects.

• Even US$1400/t wouldn't be attractive enough for new investments, which means only small scale gipsy projects in Africa and Sth America can go online.

• Because the market participants are not able to correctly forecast long term lithium prices due to Chinese gov. subsidies and price manipulations, they will hesitate to invest in lithium sector.

• That will even cause much higher lithium prices in the mid and long term.

Anatol, gotta be one of the greatest pumpers of all time, with a thick red bias towards his beloved LTR.

And i told him so back in the day when i was at HC.

Back then i had to make a choice, invest in LTR or AVZ.

Fundamentally it was a no brainer, AVZ by a country mile, sovereign risk wise.......

 

[ptlas]

Anatol, gotta be one of the greatest pumpers of all time, with a thick red bias towards his beloved LTR.

And i told him so back in the day when i was at HC.

View attachment 74022

Back then i had to make a choice, invest in LTR or AVZ.

Fundamentally it was a no brainer, AVZ by a country mile, sovereign risk wise.......

View attachment 74026

Agree.
But this was about Lithium.

 

[BEISHA]

Agree.
But this was about Lithium.

Yeah, i know, but couldnt help myself.

 

[BEISHA]

This was posted today by Anatol on the crapper.
Essentially, it relates to LTR but addresses near and mid-term lithium prices.

Enjoy:

I explained the details about the cost of Australian spod producers on my Post #:76585895 on Nov.13.

Those producers do not give their AISC (All-in-sustained-cash, everything is included, including royalties) cost. They only give their C1 FOB or CIF cash cost which only the operating cost are included. AISC cost is the final cost. It's the real cost. LTR has given it (Mid point US$835/t).

LTR's cost is being the second best after Greenbushes because LTR has a brand new mine, plant, equipment, and more importantly high grade single ore body and an underground mine.

While LTR can reach its high grade ore easily through its U/G mine, and lower its costs over the time, the other producers now have a big problem to reach their high grade ore sections because they have to remove huge amounts of waste material (overburden rock and soil) over their high grade pegmatites. Removing those waste material is also a very high cost.

1. Mt Marion of MIN/Ganfeng; can't even produce over 4.1% spod), deferred its U/G mine plans.
2. Wodgina of MIN/Albemarle; Albemarle forces MIN to reduce the production in half, as they declared that the C1 cash cost at US$642/t, which makes the AISC cost over US$900/t. Wodgina partners were also talking about U/G mining option but it's too late for them too.
3. Pilgangoora of PLS; was mining its highest grade ore of 1.5% in recent quarters despite its ave. grade is only 1.15%%. It was also looking to make U/G mine plans but I think PLS is also late to do that. PLS has given its C1 FOB cost around US$406/t recently but I believe Pilgangoora's AISC cost is also over US$900/t as it's at the same region with Wodgina and has an older tech plant than Wodgina.
4. Mt Holland of Covelant Lithium (WES/SQM JV) is still in commissioning mode and their aim is to feed the 350kt (which is small amount) spod to its own lithium hydroxide plant which is still under construction. The project will be active next year.
5. Bald Hill of MIN (ex A40) is also a small project, very high C1 cost announced and now in C&M.
6. Mt Cattlin of Arcadium (Now RIO) was also a very small project and run out of ore. It's already dead.

You can see the big picture here. It's very simple.

There are no other projects other than these shown on the map.

If those projects won't sell cheap China wouldn't be able to find lithium from the other parts of the world. It's not possible.

The Chinese needs Australian spod like crazy.
But we are selling our spod very cheap like crazy as well.
The Chinese non-integrated lepidolite production is nearly dead.
The African spod production is already dead.
And the EV production in China is at record level.
Making a record high every month.
And the BEOT wants us to believe that lithium is dead..!

All Australian lithium producers are making loss or at the breakeven point (LTR's case now) atm (other than Greenbushes, which is under Chinese control). That means the Australian spod mines produce lithium and pays more (the loss) on top of cost to get the Chinese buy it..! That's stupid.

So those manipulators playing with LTR's stock price every day for a purpose. However it's not possible that Tim Goyder, his supporters, his team and we the long term holders would sell to a cheap takeover offer. It is just not possible.

It's not possible to convince anyone that LTR's mcap at $1.5b is justifiable.

It is so obvious that it's just the result of heavy manipulation. LTR spent more than $1b just for the mine and project. If we add up everything it might be close to $1.5b.

The resource value is not included in that! I can give you many examples about the resource value. Just look at the recent AZS value, or go back and see how much WES paid to 90mt resource of Kidman ($750) in the worst time of lithium, Albemarle paid over $1.7b (US$1.15b) for 50% of Wodgina resource (around 110mt at 1.15%) on Dec. 2018 at the worst time of lithium again).

So the current mcap valuation of LTR is ridiculous. The BEOT wants us to see hallucinations.

It's not possible that LTR would go into a hard situation because of its stock price is capped at low price. LTR is producing and selling, receiving cash.

We already sold nearly a 100kt spod. It's a lot in just 5 months including commissioning and ramp up. The cash is coming in. Now we will start shipping to Tesla, then LG, and then Ford. This is just a matter of time.

The 60c stock price is already shocking for us but I am not selling (talking on my behalf).

The lower the price the worse for the manipulators, because I won't sell anyway. I know many holders are selling their other stocks (which remains high) and buying more LTR atm.

If LTR needs money it won't be hard to get credit as it's already producing and receiving cash. No commissioning or ramp up risk anymore. All done and finished.

Therefore, those BEOT guys and their shorters are just dreaming about any kind of CR. When we need cash we wouldn't make an ordinary CR, we would do similar kind of stake sale as we did with LG.

This part is from my older post. Just to remember;

Again; Lithium over supply narrative is not true
It's the Chinese gov's subsidies keep the lithium price low.

The instos and brokers, and the downrampers are all asking the same question; "If the lithium price goes down more, what are you going to do?"

I don't understand why they don't see that those lithium prices are absolutely artificial, created by Chinese gov's subsidies to its lithium producers in and out of China. And China was clearly accused of doing that by the EU commission after the EU made investigation in China.

Lower lithium price is not possible.
We have already touched the bottom and going up.

On the shorting side of the market everyone is dreaming for lower lithium prices but it's just not possible. Any good and unbiased analyst can see that. There is only one way for the lithium prices to go, and it's up.

Let's have a look at the facts now.

• The cost of producing spod concentrate in Australia is higher than Chinese spot price(except Greenbushes which is under Chinese control)
• Australia supplies 50% of world lithium demand.
• If Australia can't produce lithium by an incentive price, supply side will collapse
• And lithium prices will be sky-rocketed.

One thing is certain. The cost of producing spod concentrate is quite high atm. LTR gave its C1 cash cost and AISC cost honestly and clearly, and informed the market how they will deal with it. That's why the market's reaction has been positive.

Before I explain the costs of Australian spod producers I need to give this information;

• Non-steep cash cost curve of production and very tight supply/demand balance will cause much higher lithium prices from now on.

• However no new tier-1 project will come online for the next five years.

• The new projects will require higher incentive lithium prices; over US$1400/t, because the AISC cost is over US$900/t for most of the spod projects.

• Even US$1400/t wouldn't be attractive enough for new investments, which means only small scale gipsy projects in Africa and Sth America can go online.

• Because the market participants are not able to correctly forecast long term lithium prices due to Chinese gov. subsidies and price manipulations, they will hesitate to invest in lithium sector.

• That will even cause much higher lithium prices in the mid and long term.

Sorry for being flippant Ptlas, this post highlights why china is so desperate to obtain and control Manono, bearing in mind they already control LEO too which is by no means in the ball park of AVZ but a handy add on none the less.

Manono would solve all of Chinas problem, assuming Anatol is correct with his theory that chinese lepodolite is on the wane.

Dont let it happen !

 

[Remark]

Anatol, gotta be one of the greatest pumpers of all time, with a thick red bias towards his beloved LTR.

And i told him so back in the day when i was at HC.

View attachment 74022

Back then i had to make a choice, invest in LTR or AVZ.

Fundamentally it was a no brainer, AVZ by a country mile, sovereign risk wise.......

View attachment 74026

Wow, I was confused for a minute there. I thought you guys were typing Anusol - damn autocorrect

 

[ptlas]

Sorry for being flippant Ptlas, this post highlights why china is so desperate to obtain and control Manono, bearing in mind they already control LEO too which is by no means in the ball park of AVZ but a handy add on none the less.

Manono would solve all of Chinas problem, assuming Anatol is correct with his theory that chinese lepodolite is on the wane.

Dont let it happen !

Which is why the west ( apparently excluding Albo. ) is so concerned and working on fucking the Chinese over generally on minerals, and specifically on Lithium / Manono.

 

[BEISHA]

Which is why the west ( apparently excluding Albo. ) is so concerned and working on fucking the Chinese over generally on minerals, and specifically on Lithium / Manono.

we can only hope mate.

Cmon the saudis, make AVZ a offer !

Then the lithium could be their new oil.

food for thought.

 

[BEISHA]

Wow, I was confused for a minute there. I thought you guys were typing Anusol - damn autocorrect

 

[j.l]

Sorry for being flippant Ptlas, this post highlights why china is so desperate to obtain and control Manono, bearing in mind they already control LEO too which is by no means in the ball park of AVZ but a handy add on none the less.

Manono would solve all of Chinas problem, assuming Anatol is correct with his theory that chinese lepodolite is on the wane.

Dont let it happen !

I've heard Ken Brinsden, ex PLS now PMT, make similar - if not the same - argument about the high production costs of the Chinese lepidolite.

To me it sounded a bit like the old iron ore price floor theory. Unfortunately that didn't end well for Ken (Atlas IO).

But he did also say that we were going to go through a period of de-stocking battery supplies (and pain) over the next 18 months, and that it would be a tough time for lithium.

That was probably about 6-8 months ago IIRC...

 

[Elmitso]

The main question I have is, why and how has the AFP decided to go balls deep and execute a search warrant with 10 officers, if the search warrant is in regard to allegations of bribery which would logically be regarding the payment of money to Marius Mihigo.

Everything was done above board/cleared by DLA Piper, as is reported in the AFR article that Tom Richardson wrote (as today's announcement refers to media leaks in Feb 2023, which was Tom Richardson's article in the AFR). It specifically mentions the board consulted the legal firm, and implemented the legal advice, which was to not offer a mix of shares/cash as additional fees.

If we assume today's announcement is the whole truth, and there aren't other elements of corruption/bribery being investigated, I'm just surprised that such a massive undertaking was conducted over something that doesn't seem particularly damning/has been done with legal advice. Maybe someone with experience of such investigations can comment?

I guess my main questions at this stage are:

1. Were the AFP sniffing around before AVZ wrote to them in June, or did AVZ honestly write to them first to get ahead of the ball, and their investigation has resulted from that?

2. Is what has been reported by Tom R in 2023 bribery/corruption if we assume that is the whole truth and if it was done with legal advice and above board? As in, considering all that, is paying a 1 million consultant fee a bribe? If so, what's the difference between a bribe and a consultant fee?

3. Does the AFP have jurisdiction over these things, if it was paid to a foreign consultant? Wouldn't that require a compromising/breaking of the law in both countries and therefore bilateral legal co-operation to investigate? It seems it would affect the DRC far more than Australia in this case.

4. As mentioned in the announcement today, if all throughout the ICISD process and the arbitration processes, as far as we know no evidence has been found or supplied for 'baseless' bribery claims, why would the AFP undertake such a massive operation? And if AVZ have been co-operative from the beginning, why would they need to "raid" the office?

I feel these are all reasonable questions.

 

[Elmitso]

Lawyers warned on potential deterioration of AVZ’s governance

Zijin Mining has blamed AVZ for the DRC’s decision to revoke a mining licence, as AVZ refused to comment whether its trading halt could be lifted.

www.afr.com

The main question I have is, why and how has the AFP decided to go balls deep and execute a search warrant with 10 officers, if the search warrant is in regard to allegations of bribery which would logically be regarding the payment of money to Marius Mihigo.

Everything was done above board/cleared by DLA Piper, as is reported in the AFR article that Tom Richardson wrote (as today's announcement refers to media leaks in Feb 2023, which was Tom Richardson's article in the AFR). It specifically mentions the board consulted the legal firm, and implemented the legal advice, which was to not offer a mix of shares/cash as additional fees.

If we assume today's announcement is the whole truth, and there aren't other elements of corruption/bribery being investigated, I'm just surprised that such a massive undertaking was conducted over something that doesn't seem particularly damning/has been done with legal advice. Maybe someone with experience of such investigations can comment?

I guess my main questions at this stage are:

1. Were the AFP sniffing around before AVZ wrote to them in June, or did AVZ honestly write to them first to get ahead of the ball, and their investigation has resulted from that?

2. Is what has been reported by Tom R in 2023 bribery/corruption if we assume that is the whole truth and if it was done with legal advice and above board? As in, considering all that, is paying a 1 million consultant fee a bribe? If so, what's the difference between a bribe and a consultant fee?

3. Does the AFP have jurisdiction over these things, if it was paid to a foreign consultant? Wouldn't that require a compromising/breaking of the law in both countries and therefore bilateral legal co-operation to investigate? It seems it would affect the DRC far more than Australia in this case.

4. As mentioned in the announcement today, if all throughout the ICISD process and the arbitration processes, as far as we know no evidence has been found or supplied for 'baseless' bribery claims, why would the AFP undertake such a massive operation? And if AVZ have been co-operative from the beginning, why would they need to "raid" the office?

I feel these are all reasonable questions.

This is the old AFR article mentioned in today's announcement if anyone has forgotten.

 

[j.l]

Lawyers warned on potential deterioration of AVZ’s governance

Zijin Mining has blamed AVZ for the DRC’s decision to revoke a mining licence, as AVZ refused to comment whether its trading halt could be lifted.

www.afr.com

This is the old AFR article mentioned in today's announcement if anyone has forgotten.

https://archive.is/qfMJZ

 

[wombat74]

https://archive.is/qfMJZ

"Zijin has blamed AVZ for the DRC's decision to revoke the mining licence ."

That sentence right there is all we need to know . DRC/China Corruption in full swing .

 

[wombat74]

The main question I have is, why and how has the AFP decided to go balls deep and execute a search warrant with 10 officers, if the search warrant is in regard to allegations of bribery which would logically be regarding the payment of money to Marius Mihigo.

Everything was done above board/cleared by DLA Piper, as is reported in the AFR article that Tom Richardson wrote (as today's announcement refers to media leaks in Feb 2023, which was Tom Richardson's article in the AFR). It specifically mentions the board consulted the legal firm, and implemented the legal advice, which was to not offer a mix of shares/cash as additional fees.

If we assume today's announcement is the whole truth, and there aren't other elements of corruption/bribery being investigated, I'm just surprised that such a massive undertaking was conducted over something that doesn't seem particularly damning/has been done with legal advice. Maybe someone with experience of such investigations can comment?

I guess my main questions at this stage are:

1. Were the AFP sniffing around before AVZ wrote to them in June, or did AVZ honestly write to them first to get ahead of the ball, and their investigation has resulted from that?

2. Is what has been reported by Tom R in 2023 bribery/corruption if we assume that is the whole truth and if it was done with legal advice and above board? As in, considering all that, is paying a 1 million consultant fee a bribe? If so, what's the difference between a bribe and a consultant fee?

3. Does the AFP have jurisdiction over these things, if it was paid to a foreign consultant? Wouldn't that require a compromising/breaking of the law in both countries and therefore bilateral legal co-operation to investigate? It seems it would affect the DRC far more than Australia in this case.

4. As mentioned in the announcement today, if all throughout the ICISD process and the arbitration processes, as far as we know no evidence has been found or supplied for 'baseless' bribery claims, why would the AFP undertake such a massive operation? And if AVZ have been co-operative from the beginning, why would they need to "raid" the office?

I feel these are all reasonable questions.

Tell me how paying a consultant in the DRC to encourage a better relationship between the DRC Gov and AVZ is a crime ?
Only people that can take exception are AVZ shareholders because it ended up being a waste of company money when our coffers were starting to run low . It's absurd for these f--king tool bags nuff nuffs in the DRC to think it's some kind of corruption /bribe on AVZ's part . It doesn't even make sense . Bring on the ICSID .

 

[Winenut]

Wow, I was confused for a minute there. I thought you guys were typing Anusol - damn autocorrect

Anus Hol (okay I assume silent H considering the marketing)

Genius name for a rectum product!

Superbly apt name for the investing climate in the DRC and the powers that be there

Just sayin'....

 

[wombat74]

Anus Hol (okay I assume silent H considering the marketing)

Genius name for a rectum product!

Superbly apt name for the investing climate in the DRC and the powers that be there

Just sayin'....

 

[BRICK]

Sorry for being flippant Ptlas, this post highlights why china is so desperate to obtain and control Manono, bearing in mind they already control LEO too which is by no means in the ball park of AVZ but a handy add on none the less.

Manono would solve all of Chinas problem, assuming Anatol is correct with his theory that chinese lepodolite is on the wane.

Dont let it happen !

Sorry about this Anatol….
Do I get it at chemist warehouse?