AVZ Discussion 2022

[Doc]

Remember when AVZ management were frozen out of negotiations by the DRC government and we had to initiate the ICSID process. I did a post this time last year explaining how it was our only option under the mining code. Anyone who hasn’t realised by now that we’re going the distance unless we concede that we relinquished the north is completely delulu imo

An unpopular opinion but get the boundaries back to the first split and let’s get on with our lives. Both halves have more than enough spod for our life times.
Alternative is dig our heals in, it gets dragged out for years and possibly get zero return.
Is it fair? Fuck no but end of the day this the DRC, the Wild West if you will and this is not Zijins first rodeo. They know exactly what they doing and they don’t care who they crush to get what they want.
I might sound defeatist to some but I think I’m being a realist.

 

[Cumquat Cap]

Agreed, ensure we get 75 of the original Roche Dure, our camp and share of the hydro which is still nearly 600mt of spod. Straight to ML and sell as soon as humanly possible. Hopefully net 5b USD and move on. What a nightmare but DRC is hell on earth

 

[Remark]

A good documentary on the DRC from Ross Kemp shows what we're up against. It was filmed in 2011 during Kabila's reign but is still relevant today. It's a disturbing show but well worth watching.

 

[SilentOne]

An unpopular opinion but get the boundaries back to the first split and let’s get on with our lives. Both halves have more than enough spod for our life times.
Alternative is dig our heals in, it gets dragged out for years and possibly get zero return.
Is it fair? Fuck no but end of the day this the DRC, the Wild West if you will and this is not Zijins first rodeo. They know exactly what they doing and they don’t care who they crush to get what they want.
I might sound defeatist to some but I think I’m being a realist.

Doc,

Absolutely not. I don't want the Chinese anywhere near Dathcom and they need to be pushed out well away from us.

If they are next door due to a split it will be diabolical, and they will continue to frustrate the good work that Dathcom does.

Dathcom have done the work and spent the money. I don't see the need to give up one inch of the original tenement.

I cannot afford for Dathcom/AVZ to fall over, however I am not going to move on this.

As one wise man once said "Drill baby Drill"

I am definitely not happy about waiting for outcomes, but I will.

SilentOne.

 

[dollarbills]

Doc,

Absolutely not. I don't want the Chinese anywhere near Dathcom and they need to be pushed out well away from us.

If they are next door due to a split it will be diabolical, and they will continue to frustrate the good work that Dathcom does.

Dathcom have done the work and spent the money. I don't see the need to give up one inch of the original tenement.

I cannot afford for Dathcom/AVZ to fall over, however I am not going to move on this.

As one wise man once said "Drill baby Drill"

I am definitely not happy about waiting for outcomes, but I will.

SilentOne.

Realistically who but the Chinese would buy this from AVZ at this stage now if it were to go to sale? If not Zijin it will most likely be another Chinese firm..

AVZ going to mining alone is a pipe dream right now. A negotiated sale is our only way out of this mess right now if we don't go the full ICSID route..

As much as they have ass fucked us i bet most people would be happy to accept a $1 share price even if it came from Zijin..

 

[Samus]

Realistically who but the Chinese would buy this from AVZ at this stage now if it were to go to sale? If not Zijin it will most likely be another Chinese firm..

AVZ going to mining alone is a pipe dream right now. A negotiated sale is our only way out of this mess right now if we don't go the full ICSID route..

As much as they have ass fucked us i bet most people would be happy to accept a $1 share price even if it came from Zijin..

I reckon you're about right, who else is going to want it after what we've witnessed anyway?
Zijin/CATL scumbag alliance needs to buy it in return for making all the legal problems go away.
Can we squeeze a couple of billion USD out of those cockroaches? who knows.
Maybe with pressure from the DRC government who'll be footing the damages bill over the next decade if things continue as they are.
That's the way I see it anyway, this fucking MoU bullshit doesn't excite me at all.

 

[Mute22]

I reckon you're about right, who else is going to want it after what we've witnessed anyway?
Zijin/CATL scumbag alliance needs to buy it in return for making all the legal problems go away.
Can we squeeze a couple of billion USD out of those cockroaches? who knows.
Maybe with pressure from the DRC government who'll be footing the damages bill over the next decade if things continue as they are.
That's the way I see it anyway, this fucking MoU bullshit doesn't excite me at all.

The MoU is a red herring, any words are a waste of time.

We have supposably binding words known as the DRC mining code and statutory laws which should mean something to us, but apparently don't apply because we didn't 'donate' $70m USD to the right people.

The only thing that matters is real actions in the real world of which we have seen nothing.

 

[SilentOne]

Realistically who but the Chinese would buy this from AVZ at this stage now if it were to go to sale? If not Zijin it will most likely be another Chinese firm..

AVZ going to mining alone is a pipe dream right now. A negotiated sale is our only way out of this mess right now if we don't go the full ICSID route..

As much as they have ass fucked us i bet most people would be happy to accept a $1 share price even if it came from Zijin..

Dollarbills,

The Chinese from what I have seen have a tendency to settle before any major ruling occurs - they don't like adverse findings recorded against them.

The Chinese withdrew their tarrifs against Australia slowly on the premise that Australia would suspend/cancel their complaint with the WTO. Personally, I would have pursued it for a ruling.

I would be surprised if this goes the full hog with the ICSID and if it does then there's a very flash looking Bank Vault in New York that apparently holds bullion on behalf on the DRC.

SilentOne - do you own research

 

[TheCount]

Realistically who but the Chinese would buy this from AVZ at this stage now if it were to go to sale? If not Zijin it will most likely be another Chinese firm..

AVZ going to mining alone is a pipe dream right now. A negotiated sale is our only way out of this mess right now if we don't go the full ICSID route..

As much as they have ass fucked us i bet most people would be happy to accept a $1 share price even if it came from Zijin..

The president of the country has said they only deal with Chinese and Russians, so we have to rely on ICC and ICSID for what we call justice.

The president is the problem - always has and always will be. He promotes corruption, even fosters it.

Not one single attack on anyone related to the DRC side has stuck. We've got Government officials pissing off to France for "emergency medical treatment" and never checking in to the hospital! Cominiere is laughing all the way to the bank as he buddies up to his Chinese mates. The newly elected officials have not started looking at the problem caused by their predecessors, and we have no confidence they ever will! $30M and then $70M goes missing and no one is looking for it? World Bank pats them on the head, says to "try harder" to which platitudes are offered and they go back to their corrupt ways..

The level of proof of corruption is irrefutable and yet it continues to flourish. How can the Country ignore its own laws? Easy, it just does..

This is way beyond a joke now and the DRC needs to be taught a lesson.....

 

[Samus]

The president of the country has said they only deal with Chinese and Russians, so we have to rely on ICC and ICSID for what we call justice.

The president is the problem - always has and always will be. He promotes corruption, even fosters it.

Not one single attack on anyone related to the DRC side has stuck. We've got Government officials pissing off to France for "emergency medical treatment" and never checking in to the hospital! Cominiere is laughing all the way to the bank as he buddies up to his Chinese mates. The newly elected officials have not started looking at the problem caused by their predecessors, and we have no confidence they ever will! $30M and then $70M goes missing and no one is looking for it? World Bank pats them on the head, says to "try harder" to which platitudes are offered and they go back to their corrupt ways..

The level of proof of corruption is irrefutable and yet it continues to flourish. How can the Country ignore its own laws? Easy, it just does..

This is way beyond a joke now and the DRC needs to be taught a lesson.....

I don't disagree with this, but as a shareholder with my capital tied up I'd rather extract some money out of this and move on than be the righteous one to teach these scumbags a lesson over the next however many years.

If it goes the route of full ICSID then fine and I'm sure we will eventually extract some value but trying to squeeze blood out of a stone for the next decade isn't going to be fun.

 

[Roon]

The MoU is a red herring, any words are a waste of time.

We have supposably binding words known as the DRC mining code and statutory laws which should mean something to us, but apparently don't apply because we didn't 'donate' $70m USD to the right people.

The only thing that matters is real actions in the real world of which we have seen nothing.

Yes look at our MoU for the hydro plant which is now well and truly gone. Not worth the paper it's written on.

 

[wombat74]

I don't disagree with this, but as a shareholder with my capital tied up I'd rather extract some money out of this and move on than be the righteous one to teach these scumbags a lesson over the next however many years.

If it goes the route of full ICSID then fine and I'm sure we will eventually extract some value but trying to squeeze blood out of a stone for the next decade isn't going to be fun.

Going to need well over ATH (DRC tax ) if every shareholder is to at least break even . Not sure if that poses a problem for Nigel ?

 

[Jazz]

Images of Piana–Mwanga Hydroelectric Power Station.​

2018

6 Weeks ago
The image below is a composite of 2018 and 2024. This is because the photos are updated periodically as the satellites pass over. So you end up with strips of land that have current photos, stitched to adjacent older photos.

Pretty clear there have been considerable earthworks upstream of the power station.

 

[Winenut]

Fuck Zijin.....

 

[peterpan]

Realistically who but the Chinese would buy this from AVZ at this stage now if it were to go to sale? If not Zijin it will most likely be another Chinese firm..

AVZ going to mining alone is a pipe dream right now. A negotiated sale is our only way out of this mess right now if we don't go the full ICSID route..

As much as they have ass fucked us i bet most people would be happy to accept a $1 share price even if it came from Zijin..

Mate at this point I would take 50c in a heartbeat. Money in the bank and put this rotten experience in the rear view mirror.

I'm sure everyone would rather move on with their lives, I'm not for waiting 5 plus years of "negotiations" They aren't capable, corruption is in there blood.

 

[wombat74]

So wait another what...2 years or so until ICSID is wrapped up? Then more years waiting to see if DRC will eventually respect the ruling?

And of course no bagging the board in the meantime... that is if it's even the same board, given likely automatic spill challenge after another tick against the renumeration report at the next AGM

First cab off the rank is finance . Would there be an another AGM if Nigel fails to get the $$$$$ ? AVZ have already had favourable findings by both the ICC and ICSID . It's not the BoD fault the DRC chooses to ignore them . Not the BoD fault either that the DRC/cominiere wont pay their fines . If you get my drift ?

 

[Frank]

The president of the country has said they only deal with Chinese and Russians, so we have to rely on ICC and ICSID for what we call justice.

The president is the problem - always has and always will be. He promotes corruption, even fosters it.

Not one single attack on anyone related to the DRC side has stuck. We've got Government officials pissing off to France for "emergency medical treatment" and never checking in to the hospital! Cominiere is laughing all the way to the bank as he buddies up to his Chinese mates. The newly elected officials have not started looking at the problem caused by their predecessors, and we have no confidence they ever will! $30M and then $70M goes missing and no one is looking for it? World Bank pats them on the head, says to "try harder" to which platitudes are offered and they go back to their corrupt ways..

The level of proof of corruption is irrefutable and yet it continues to flourish. How can the Country ignore its own laws? Easy, it just does..

This is way beyond a joke now and the DRC needs to be taught a lesson.....

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[Uglybob]

It's been slowing coming for the past year(s). Still approaching, but no implosion yet...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-07...oblivion-property-market-trade-trap/104128504

 

[Frank]

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[Frank]

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A thousand thanks