AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
- Start date
Agreed. More West input the better.
Im having a guess here but perhaps DRC asked AVZ to suspend the ICSID as they are now willing to negotiate.
We've absolutely roasted Nigel before ( ill put my hand up and say me included ) for saying things will happen and then they dont. So if he announced now that there are negotiations underway and nothing comes of it then he'll be roasted again. He already has former share holders trying to sue him, im sure he doesnt want to give these bastards any more ammo.
Its a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario
We've absolutely roasted Nigel before ( ill put my hand up and say me included ) for saying things will happen and then they dont. So if he announced now that there are negotiations underway and nothing comes of it then he'll be roasted again. He already has former share holders trying to sue him, im sure he doesnt want to give these bastards any more ammo.
Its a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario
Doc,
As we all know things are very fluid in the DRC - one minute you have an agreement the next minute you dont - no fault of Nigel or the Board for how the DRC conducts their business and their ethics.
Nigel and his team have done an excellent job in keeping us in the game.
Regards,
SilentOne
Carlos Danger
Top 20
An announcement should be made at least in regards to who initiated the suspension. What's material is whether it was done under agreement by the parties, request by either of the parties or by the initiative of the ICSID.
My bet is the DRC have failed to pay their share of the required advances outlined in Administrative and Financial Regulations 14 & 15 and an amount (most likely the full amount lol) is still owed 15 days after they received notice under Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(a) so the proceedings have been suspended by the ICSID under 16(2)(b)
Suspension, Settlement, and Discontinuance - ICSID Convention Arbitration (2022 Rules) | ICSID
The proceeding may be suspended or discontinued by agreement of the parties or upon the request of a party (Arbitration Rules 54-56).
Discontinuance for Lack of Payment of Required Advances (ICSID Administrative and Financial Regulation 16)
Except in annulment proceedings, both parties are responsible for paying the advances to meet the costs of the proceeding unless the parties agree otherwise (Administrative and Financial Regulation 15(1)). Failure to do so may lead to the discontinuance of the proceeding.
If the amounts requested are not paid in full within 30 days of a request, the Secretary-General informs both parties of the default and gives either of them an opportunity to make the outstanding payment (Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(a)).
If any part of the required payment remains outstanding 15 days after notice of default is given, the Secretary-General may suspend the proceeding until payment is made, after giving notice to the parties and the Tribunal (Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(b)).
If any proceeding is stayed for non-payment for more than 90 consecutive days, the Secretary-General may discontinue the proceeding, after giving notice to the parties and the Tribunal (Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(b)).
D
Deleted member 2378
Guest
You’re fucking dumb. Read the stupid ICSID rules. It stated there crystal clear. If you have not enough braincells to understand what you read I can’t help you. Of course it’s possible both agreed because of negotiations. But the shithole of DRC never did anything in our favor yet, thats my opinion that it’s more likely they use it to delay. Jesus, use the few cells that are left. Of course the DRC will kick out zijin immediately, who paid hundreds of millions of bribe money to give the complete license to a little Australien company. Because the DRC learned after years….maybe they should start to be the good guys? I saw santa last year, didn’t helped with my wish, must be the fact because I’m a Chinese spy troll.
And of course nothing would be sorted if the management resigned, what a stupid answer. Then they would throw us out of the window like the poor belgian soul from the votings. I believe the management underestimated the corruption, if we had give them something back at a earlier stage not the nuclear stage we have right now, then I think we would have a deal and could continue. But who fuckin knows, if you haven’t a Time Machine we will never find out.
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So in other words stall and delay tactics ?An announcement should be made at least in regards to who initiated the suspension. What's material is whether it was done under agreement by the parties, request by either of the parties or by the initiative of the ICSID.
My bet is the DRC have failed to pay their share of the required advances outlined in Administrative and Financial Regulations 14 & 15 and an amount (most likely the full amount lol) is still owed 15 days after they received notice under Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(a) so the proceedings have been suspended by the ICSID under 16(2)(b)
Suspension, Settlement, and Discontinuance - ICSID Convention Arbitration (2022 Rules) | ICSID
The proceeding may be suspended or discontinued by agreement of the parties or upon the request of a party (Arbitration Rules 54-56).icsid.worldbank.org
Discontinuance for Lack of Payment of Required Advances (ICSID Administrative and Financial Regulation 16)
Except in annulment proceedings, both parties are responsible for paying the advances to meet the costs of the proceeding unless the parties agree otherwise (Administrative and Financial Regulation 15(1)). Failure to do so may lead to the discontinuance of the proceeding.
If the amounts requested are not paid in full within 30 days of a request, the Secretary-General informs both parties of the default and gives either of them an opportunity to make the outstanding payment (Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(a)).
If any part of the required payment remains outstanding 15 days after notice of default is given, the Secretary-General may suspend the proceeding until payment is made, after giving notice to the parties and the Tribunal (Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(b)).
If any proceeding is stayed for non-payment for more than 90 consecutive days, the Secretary-General may discontinue the proceeding, after giving notice to the parties and the Tribunal (Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(b)).
100%, that's what I was saying. Damned if you do damned if you don't. Things change there in an instant
So whats the upside for the side paying? DRC stop paying and after 90 days the Sec-General can discontinue the proceedings? Does judgment default to the side that is up to date?An announcement should be made at least in regards to who initiated the suspension. What's material is whether it was done under agreement by the parties, request by either of the parties or by the initiative of the ICSID.
My bet is the DRC have failed to pay their share of the required advances outlined in Administrative and Financial Regulations 14 & 15 and an amount (most likely the full amount lol) is still owed 15 days after they received notice under Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(a) so the proceedings have been suspended by the ICSID under 16(2)(b)
Suspension, Settlement, and Discontinuance - ICSID Convention Arbitration (2022 Rules) | ICSID
The proceeding may be suspended or discontinued by agreement of the parties or upon the request of a party (Arbitration Rules 54-56).
Discontinuance for Lack of Payment of Required Advances (ICSID Administrative and Financial Regulation 16)
Except in annulment proceedings, both parties are responsible for paying the advances to meet the costs of the proceeding unless the parties agree otherwise (Administrative and Financial Regulation 15(1)). Failure to do so may lead to the discontinuance of the proceeding.
If the amounts requested are not paid in full within 30 days of a request, the Secretary-General informs both parties of the default and gives either of them an opportunity to make the outstanding payment (Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(a)).
If any part of the required payment remains outstanding 15 days after notice of default is given, the Secretary-General may suspend the proceeding until payment is made, after giving notice to the parties and the Tribunal (Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(b)).
If any proceeding is stayed for non-payment for more than 90 consecutive days, the Secretary-General may discontinue the proceeding, after giving notice to the parties and the Tribunal (Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(b)).
Carlos Danger
Top 20
Just a guess by me. But I doubt it is suspended because of negotiations as they can happen without the need to suspend proceedings eg the much hyped but called a smokescreen by me MoU. And I can't see AVZ agreeing to any form of suspension unless a deal is done in which case the proceedings should go into discontinuance or possibly a final award recorded acknowledging the deal.
So for me that only really leaves an issue with one of the arbitrators or some type of ratfuckery by the DRC as the most likely reasons for suspension. Whatever has happened let's hope we get an official announcement by the company soon to explain what the fuck is going on.
Remark
Top 20
Stock Swami seems to be on our side. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing, I can't recall... 
https://x.com/stockswami/status/1755048387668480113?s=20
https://x.com/stockswami/status/1755048387668480113?s=20
Xerof
Have a Cigar 1975
Stockswami - He's looking at a page on a website that hasn't been updated for months if not years, (and @Remark it's probably a bad thing)
Another point - our case at ISCID is with DRC, not Cominiere, so those two dickheads can carry on saying whatever they like - they are not in the loop, and can continue to pull our collective tits
Another point - our case at ISCID is with DRC, not Cominiere, so those two dickheads can carry on saying whatever they like - they are not in the loop, and can continue to pull our collective tits
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Remark
Top 20
Anybody recognise these two? I'm looking at you @Dave Evans
https://x.com/cominiereSA/status/1754772571587830180?s=20
https://x.com/cominiereSA/status/1754772571587830180?s=20
CKK's grandmother, mother, mother in law, wife, sister, sister in law, daughter, niece, brother, brother in law, friend, girlfriend, secret lover, or the coffee lady who serves drinks during company gatherings? They like it to keep things in the family.Anybody recognise these two? I'm looking at you @Dave Evans
https://x.com/cominiereSA/status/1754772571587830180?s=20
View attachment 56172
They are wearing a name tag from Ivanhoe mining (I think they are in cahoots with Zijin)
Kamoa-Kakula copper, 39.6% Ivanhoe, 39.6% Zijin, .8% CRG, 20% DRC Government.
TheCount
Regular
Ivanhoe could also be a "lanyard sponsor" for the event. Lots of images on "X" where everyone is wearing them. We do that regularly in our field..
TC.
D
Deleted member 2378
Guest
The Sumrains against the state of kuweit. Perfect overview for some steps. It have both scenarios: suspension because of the try to kick out one arbitrator and suspension because of a agreement.
https://www.italaw.com/sites/default/files/case-documents/italaw16452.pdf
I believe the suspension is more likely because of the try to disqualify a arbitrator and to delay the proceedings. Because in the case of suspension of negotiations the tribunal issued a procedural order to show they take note of the agreement. We didn’t have that yet.
It took close to 3 months for the tribunal to dismiss the try to disqualify. That would match to the Chinese play book to delay and delay, like zijin does in the ICC against us. Remember fasken (zijin lawyer) is part of the icsid drc team. In 3 months they would see if locke will pay us the 20 million. They could see if we have enough money to continue with the proceedings over the next years if necessary. And we face a potential delisting in the near future, without locke and delisted there is the potential that we don’t have access to new money. Only if we relist, but under current circumstances it would be a disaster without a ML and have the potential of a hostile takeover.
The interim orders are still active in suspension. But if the response time really exist for a final order, then this could be on ice until a decision is made because it’s necessary to clarify if a arbitrator is suitable for the proceedings first. There could be a other reason for a suspension, for me in relation to the bigger picture of the evil Chinese plan it could match.
https://www.italaw.com/sites/default/files/case-documents/italaw16452.pdf
I believe the suspension is more likely because of the try to disqualify a arbitrator and to delay the proceedings. Because in the case of suspension of negotiations the tribunal issued a procedural order to show they take note of the agreement. We didn’t have that yet.
It took close to 3 months for the tribunal to dismiss the try to disqualify. That would match to the Chinese play book to delay and delay, like zijin does in the ICC against us. Remember fasken (zijin lawyer) is part of the icsid drc team. In 3 months they would see if locke will pay us the 20 million. They could see if we have enough money to continue with the proceedings over the next years if necessary. And we face a potential delisting in the near future, without locke and delisted there is the potential that we don’t have access to new money. Only if we relist, but under current circumstances it would be a disaster without a ML and have the potential of a hostile takeover.
The interim orders are still active in suspension. But if the response time really exist for a final order, then this could be on ice until a decision is made because it’s necessary to clarify if a arbitrator is suitable for the proceedings first. There could be a other reason for a suspension, for me in relation to the bigger picture of the evil Chinese plan it could match.
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Remark
Top 20
You're not doing well defending your "I'm not a troll and cocksucka" case with this post
Just kidding, I'm sure you're a great guy when people get to know you.
D
Deleted member 2378
Guest
Every opinion that is not based on everything is going well and the hope we will get everything back, is a enemy here. The most forget that the Chinese try everything to fuck us and the drc government did nothing in all the years to support us. They have limited options what will happen. Accept icsid or ignore it, make a deal with us and give the Chinese the north, follow their laws but they didn’t done it in the past, or try to bleed us out if they don’t want to give us anything. If I would be them and a stupid asshole I would try to bleed the other one out, if it doesn’t work I would continue with the next step.You're not doing well defending your "I'm not a troll and cocksucka" case with this post
Just kidding, I'm sure you're a great guy when people get to know you.
I wish everyone here the best and you can’t imagine how much I wish we would be successfully, that this nightmare finally ends. I hate to think about that shithole country and how dumb they are in relation to their own population for a few bucks. And how a few stupid people had bring me and others here in a shit situation. I would not be so pessimistic if the drc had made one sign in our favor.
It's just such a shame because I and I'm sure many others on here was actually enthusiastic to invest in something that would genuinely help improve the lives of people in the DRC.
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