AVZ Case
"We did everything in the bounds of the law and our contractual obligations."
DRC Case
"Waaaah"
AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
- Start date
AVZ Case
"We did everything in the bounds of the law and our contractual obligations."
DRC Case
"Waaaah"
Cumquat Cap
Regular
What was the crux of the DRC case again? we relinquished the north or something to do with Nigel's directorship at AJN?
Either way, I find it very hard to believe we can ever work with the drc again (although I hope we do)
Either way, I find it very hard to believe we can ever work with the drc again (although I hope we do)
Ganfeng offtake was christmas time years ago, still waiting on the easter eggs
sorry @Winenut its 8.30 in Java and the vodka had a part in me not finding a chinaman in a santa suit jumping out of a cake for your xmas gift
Winenut
Go AVZ!
All good!
I was being a little ironic, sarcastic and probably a bit cheeky with Ben_Jovi
Just having a bit of a play on the Christmas/Easter Egg thing with the history of AVZ
For me I'm from a long line of white ignorant BS Anglo Christian fuck ups so now I'm happily and squarely in the camp of probably the athiests....no no no...the agnostics....no no no.....whatever you believe is okay...no that's not it.....
Good people of all faiths are good people
Good people are good people
Hopefully the good people here and in the DRC can help get this gamechanger over the line for the best outcome for everyone
Hold that Vodka!!!!
Hopefully I can share that with you soon
when this is over I will love to meet people like you and share vodka local ,all you will need is the air fairAll good!
I was being a little ironic, sarcastic and probably a bit cheeky with Ben_Jovi
Just having a bit of a play on the Christmas/Easter Egg thing with the history of AVZ
For me I'm from a long line of white ignorant BS Anglo Christian fuck ups so now I'm happily and squarely in the camp of probably the athiests....no no no...the agnostics....no no no.....whatever you believe is okay...no that's not it.....
Good people of all faiths are good people
Good people are good people
Hopefully the good people here and in the DRC can help get this gamechanger over the line for the best outcome for everyone
Hold that Vodka!!!!
Hopefully I can share that with you soon
Thunderpony
27 µg per 100 mL
All good!
I was being a little ironic, sarcastic and probably a bit cheeky with Ben_Jovi
Just having a bit of a play on the Christmas/Easter Egg thing with the history of AVZ
For me I'm from a long line of white ignorant BS Anglo Christian fuck ups so now I'm happily and squarely in the camp of probably the athiests....no no no...the agnostics....no no no.....whatever you believe is okay...no that's not it.....
Good people of all faiths are good people
Good people are good people
Hopefully the good people here and in the DRC can help get this gamechanger over the line for the best outcome for everyone
Hold that Vodka!!!!
Hopefully I can share that with you soon
Not sure who it was that suggested AVZ management would not be able to work with DRC government productively after court cases etc. I tend to disagree. All (shitfuckery) will be forgotten and never mentioned again - they will just simply look for the next opportunity to pocket some snacks. When AVZ is in construction and benefits start flowing to the government and the populace the ministers will hang their hat on AVZ and bask in the glory of the massive money making machine created under their portfolios. Do not apply our norms, morals and logic as they are worlds apart.
Underwaterdark
Regular
Re the ICISD case, what are the direct resolutions/remedies we are hoping to get out of it?
I know the original announcement says:
... seek various remedies for the failure of the DRC and its administrative departments, to comply with obligations under the DRC Mining Code, in particular the implementation of the various measures that should have led to the issuance of an Operating Permit to Dathcom...
But what will be the actual outcomes?
-$$ Compensation for the whole mess and delays?
-Confirmation that they will review and issue the ML etc to Dathcom (which will be legally binding)
-Fast-track of fixing all the errors and getting a clean slate? (eg unwinding the PR13359 back to Dathcom and issuing the correct Surface Rights notice, so we can pay and play on?
-Some sort of high level overview/oversight of all the dealings moving forward to ensure they are within the law and framework?
-Some form of specialty team to deal with AVZ directly from the Mining/Admin perspective?
-Some form of goodwill gesture to compensate for the lost time and revenue?
Just curious on what kind of solid outcomes we might have, assuming it is in AVZ's/Dathcom's favour etc.
And if this is all binding, will it give us the path back to trading early in the new year, pending the ASX having a read and signing off.
I know the original announcement says:
... seek various remedies for the failure of the DRC and its administrative departments, to comply with obligations under the DRC Mining Code, in particular the implementation of the various measures that should have led to the issuance of an Operating Permit to Dathcom...
But what will be the actual outcomes?
-$$ Compensation for the whole mess and delays?
-Confirmation that they will review and issue the ML etc to Dathcom (which will be legally binding)
-Fast-track of fixing all the errors and getting a clean slate? (eg unwinding the PR13359 back to Dathcom and issuing the correct Surface Rights notice, so we can pay and play on?
-Some sort of high level overview/oversight of all the dealings moving forward to ensure they are within the law and framework?
-Some form of specialty team to deal with AVZ directly from the Mining/Admin perspective?
-Some form of goodwill gesture to compensate for the lost time and revenue?
Just curious on what kind of solid outcomes we might have, assuming it is in AVZ's/Dathcom's favour etc.
And if this is all binding, will it give us the path back to trading early in the new year, pending the ASX having a read and signing off.
9cardomaha
Regular
Virtual hearing from Monday was for provisional measures to maintain the status quo - which translates to, orders to ensure no more shit fuckery until the ICSID has ruled on our request.
To that end, we would expect (before Christmas):
- Suspension of PR 13359 and PR 15775.
- No work to be done on 13359/15775 by any company other than Dathcom - Zijin is working on the north because 'the injunction is against Cominiere, so we can do what we want'.
- Restrain the DRC from taking any administrative actions prejudicial to Dathcom's interests - no more going around ordering CAMI to update registry or anything else like that.
- Daily penalty against anyone who is in breach - value of penalty please see ICC.
DRC continue to ask us to drop all cases before negotiations... Herp no thank you.
But BOD would likely drop cases when the detractors offer up something resembling a fair offer - obviously some give and take from both sides. But no way in fucking hell would we ever preemptively drop cases on their 'goodwill'.
Are you expecting China/Cominiere to follow ICSID orders ?Virtual hearing from Monday was for provisional measures to maintain the status quo - which translates to, orders to ensure no more shit fuckery until the ICSID has ruled on our request.
To that end, we would expect (before Christmas):
Pursuant to getting the provisional measures, we continue to play hardball and use the ICC and ICSID leverage to negotiate for what is rightfully ours.
- Suspension of PR 13359 and PR 15775.
- No work to be done on 13359/15775 by any company other than Dathcom - Zijin is working on the north because 'the injunction is against Cominiere, so we can do what we want'.
- Restrain the DRC from taking any administrative actions prejudicial to Dathcom's interests - no more going around ordering CAMI to update registry or anything else like that.
- Daily penalty against anyone who is in breach - value of penalty please see ICC.
DRC continue to ask us to drop all cases before negotiations... Herp no thank you.
But BOD would likely drop cases when the detractors offer up something resembling a fair offer - obviously some give and take from both sides. But no way in fucking hell would we ever preemptively drop cases on their 'goodwill'.
I thought ICSID case was vs DRC, it is up to DRC to implements its laws if instructed by ICSID.
Sooo DRC will have to tell Zijin to take a hike.
I'm reading this as we get penalties from Cominiere, Zijin, et al for breaches per entity?
I think from memory, current penalty rates is $100K per Day... so it could be $200K per day for both entities?!
9cardomaha
Regular
China found a loophole in what we got at ICC - slimy fucks but technically not breaking the law. Cominiere on the other hand are retarded, but that is back firing and DLA already submitting snippets of 'Cominiere's great work on the site' which is damaging to Faksen's claim that Z is not in breach and conducting all the work by themselves....
ICSID providing the blanket measure to cover everything would stop Z in their tracks IMO.
9cardomaha
Regular
You are correct, but its the JV (singular) that is in breach so 100K from the JV per day. One caveat to this, it is possible that ICSID supercedes ICC, so ICC penalties stop ramping up and we only have ICSID measures going forward. but as i pointed out above, this is far better than just having ICC injunctions in place because Z don't give a flying fuck.
@9cardomaha If Cominiere and Zijin are in a JV (Manono Lithium), then aren’t Zijin liable as well under the JV by association with Cominiere? If Court tells Cominiere to stop, the whole JV comes to a halt I would have thought. That’s for ICC. ICSID different kettle of fish. Govt will be instructed to stop everything regardless who’s involved. Hopefully that will make Chinese come to the table with a decent offer. Otherwise it’ll just sit there.
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