AVZ Discussion 2022

[Carlos Danger]

Update from me on ICC:

15% case JCM v AVZ, i believe we submitted request for the entire case be thrown out since the north has been returned (2nd Nov submissions)
- expected verdict on request next week.

Request to Increase Emergency Injunction fine from 50,000 Euros to 150,000 Euros per day (2nd Nov submissions)
- Expected verdict on request next week.

Jurisdictional hearing which occured in October won't have a verdict until 2024 Feb, but the request to have it thrown out will likely make this point moot.

So we are going for dismissal on Zijin having no grounds to claim the 15% anymore. Makes more sense than waiting for final decision if that won't be until February. I can't imagine Zijin would want to continue anyway so should be all over.

 

[Carlos Danger]

On first point presumably because Zijin/Jin Cheng asked for illegal monies $33m for Dathcom 15% now instead be applied as payment for the North section PR 15775 and therefore they are not part of Dathcom JV

 

[Scoota30]

Update from me on ICC:

15% case JCM v AVZ, i believe we submitted request for the entire case be thrown out since the north has been returned (2nd Nov submissions)
- expected verdict on request next week.

Request to Increase Emergency Injunction fine from 50,000 Euros to 150,000 Euros per day (2nd Nov submissions)
- Expected verdict on request next week.

Jurisdictional hearing which occured in October won't have a verdict until 2024 Feb, but the request to have it thrown out will likely make this point moot.

$159,000 USD per day, ouch.....

 

[Spikerama]

$159,000 USD per day, ouch.....

Cant wait to update this.

DRC ICC Penalty Calculator

Calculates the amount of penalties the DRC has incurred since first violation of ICC court ruling

drc-icc-violation-penalties-english.netlify.app

 

[Carlos Danger]

I will also add that ZJ tried to change the arbitrator who granted us the Emergency Injunction for 50,000 to some other judge, but was unsuccessful - so the chances it gets increased is looking good.

But i wonder when we will seek enforcement of the injunction. that'll put a dent in ZJxCominiere's coffers.

Why ZJ trying to change the arbiter?

Zijin's request to combine their cases with Cominiere was specifically knocked back by the ICC. As if they had a chance lmao

 

[John25]

Im a bit late but AGM

 

[9cardomaha]

JCM v AVZ (15% issue) is heard by the mysterious cruiseship delaying arbitaror - we submitted an emergency request to throw the case out completely with deadline for submissions today and expected decisions next week.

Emergency injunction is AVZ v Cominiere, which has a lady arbitrator if i am not mistaken, after the injunction was awarded on May 5, Zijin has lent their legal team to Cominiere (ie Fasken), who is now arguing on behalf of Cominiere to not increase the daily penalty and even remove the injunction all together.

(also fasken reps Zj and Cominiere in the joint case).

 

[Dave Evans]

 

[Carlos Danger]

JCM v AVZ (15% issue) is heard by the mysterious cruiseship delaying arbitaror - we submitted an emergency request to throw the case out completely with deadline for submissions today and expected decisions next week.

Emergency injunction is AVZ v Cominiere, which has a lady arbitrator if i am not mistaken, after the injunction was awarded on May 5, Zijin has lent their legal team to Cominiere (ie Fasken), who is now arguing on behalf of Cominiere to not increase the daily penalty and even remove the injunction all together.

(also fasken reps Zj and Cominiere in the joint case).

 

[9cardomaha]

X3

Depp: Are you gonna let me finish?

 

[Samus]

This is such a head fuck, what's the trickle down effect on the rest of the arbitrations if the initial hearing gets thrown out?
Puts a pretty big hole on Zijin's claim for any part of 13359. Have they fucked up badly with this latest market release

 

[9cardomaha]

This is such a head fuck, what's the trickle down effect on the rest of the arbitrations if the initial hearing gets thrown out?
Puts a pretty big whole on Zijin's claim for any part of 13359. Have they fucked up badly with this latest market release

I go back to my single domino falling theory - and yes their latest announcement gave us grounds to expedite instead of waiting to Feb 2024.

An emergency request to have it thrown out renders a verdict almost instantly (in the legal world). So could be the first piece to move, afterwhich, combined case from ZJ and Cominiere is also withdrawn, and as the sale of 15% is no longer in question, we withdraw one of the cases against Cominiere for the sale.

We would maintain Dathomir cases and the Emergency injunction against Cominiere - but i surmise that if the first domino falls, we will just seek enforcement of the new injunction amount, and then just hold the Dathomir case. (if we get an increase for injunction penalty, it will likely give us more leverage to negotiate too) but this all heresay your honour.

 

[Carlos Danger]

This is such a head fuck, what's the trickle down effect on the rest of the arbitrations if the initial hearing gets thrown out?
Puts a pretty big whole on Zijin's claim for any part of 13359. Have they fucked up badly with this latest market release

I go back to my single domino falling theory - and yes their latest announcement gave us grounds to expedite instead of waiting to Feb 2024.

An emergency request to have it thrown out renders a verdict almost instantly (in the legal world). So could be the first piece to move, afterwhich, combined case from ZJ and Cominiere is also withdrawn, and as the sale of 15% is no longer in question, we withdraw one of the cases against Cominiere for the sale.

We would maintain Dathomir cases and the Emergency injunction against Cominiere - but i surmise that if the first domino falls, we will just seek enforcement of the new injunction amount, and then just hold the Dathomir case. (if we get an increase for injunction penalty, it will likely give us more leverage to negotiate too) but this all heresay your honour.

If Zijin case is over then they are gone from Dathcom forever

Focus then becomes our claim against Cominiere for the purported termination of the Dathcom JVA and subsequent partition of the tenement. Pre-emption breach claim against Cominiere is gone as the sale didn't happen and they still hold 25% of Dathcom that we have FROR on 15% of.

Zijin and Cominiere's other combined case claiming damages goes away on lack of grounds as Zijin is not, and was never, a party of Dathcom

 

[Hudnut]

Nut, I hope @Carlos Danger has answered your questions around disclosure to your satisfaction, but if not

I worked out last year when we went into suspension why our BOD didn’t disclose all the issues they were dealing with behind the scenes (and as we know the issues in question went into the year before that)

If you worked that out AFTER AVZ went into suspension all that experience helped fuck all then I suppose.

I don't know if that was your intent, but I don't like to be talked down to.

I'm not saying the lack of disclosure is illegal. But it certainly screwed over more than a few of us while they continue to give themselves bonuses at a time when cashflow might become an issue.

We are all in the same boat, but some seem to be prepared to give the BoD a free pass for where we are.

 

[wombat74]

I go back to my single domino falling theory - and yes their latest announcement gave us grounds to expedite instead of waiting to Feb 2024.

An emergency request to have it thrown out renders a verdict almost instantly (in the legal world). So could be the first piece to move, afterwhich, combined case from ZJ and Cominiere is also withdrawn, and as the sale of 15% is no longer in question, we withdraw one of the cases against Cominiere for the sale.

We would maintain Dathomir cases and the Emergency injunction against Cominiere - but i surmise that if the first domino falls, we will just seek enforcement of the new injunction amount, and then just hold the Dathomir case. (if we get an increase for injunction penalty, it will likely give us more leverage to negotiate too) but this all heresay your honour.

Are we expecting the Chinese /DRC to abide by any of these ICC verdicts ?

 

[9cardomaha]

If Zijin case is over then they are gone from Dathcom forever

Focus then becomes our claim against Cominiere for the purported termination of the Dathcom JVA and subsequent partition of the tenement. Pre-emption breach claim against Cominiere is gone as the sale didn't happen and they still hold 25% of Dathcom that we have FROR of 15% on.

Zijin and Cominiere's other combined case claiming damages goes away on lack of grounds as Zijin is not, and was never, a party of Dathcom

You always articulate it better than I do Carlos lol.

That is precisely it. Just one thing - i think there are two cases for termination of JVA. One is the root cause, becasue Dathomir is the one who went to local DRC court to terminate JV.

So the emergency injunction against Cominiere is to stop them from acting on the assumption of termination; BECAUSE the ICC case against Dathomir is still underway.

We also have another case against dathomir which is basically a big fat fuck-off to Cong's seller's remorse.

ICSID is against DRC who, following Cominiere's request and bullshit reasons, canceled the ministerial decrees which provided the opening for JVA and JV to be terminated.

See how its all a web of lies and deciet and snackfuckery.

 

[wombat74]

You always articulate it better than I do Carlos lol.

That is precisely it. Just one thing - i think there are two cases for termination of JVA. One is the root cause, becasue Dathomir is the one who went to local DRC court to terminate JV.

So the emergency injunction against Cominiere is to stop them from acting on the assumption of termination; BECAUSE the ICC case against Dathomir is still underway.

We also have another case against dathomir which is basically a big fat fuck-off to Cong's seller's remorse.

ICSID is against DRC who, following Cominiere's request and bullshit reasons, canceled the ministerial decrees which provided the opening for JVA and JV to be terminated.

See how its all a web of lies and deciet and snackfuckery.

The last emergency injunction against Cominiere had no effect . In fact it had the opposite effect . This injunction will probably see Zijin start work on the North while they are having BBQs at the AVZ camp site.

 

[Samus]

Are we expecting the Chinese /DRC to abide by any of this ICC verdicts ?

Fucking Zijin would want to considering they were the ones to initiate arbitration proceedings to begin with.

I hope these dogs fucked themselves good and proper.

 

[DiscoDanNZ]

Are we expecting the Chinese /DRC to abide by any of these ICC verdicts ?

Whats this about them using the AVZ camp? I must have missed out on that.

 

[9cardomaha]

Are we expecting the Chinese /DRC to abide by any of these ICC verdicts ?

So this is where it gets a little tricky - ICC's power over DRC land transfer and ownership rights is 50/50 from what i can tell. But that is up to the arbitrator, if they do not believe the DRC will follow through, then they pretty weak from what i can tell, but ICC and ICSID for that matter will generally rule for monetary damages as remedy.

The last emergency injunction against Cominiere had no effect . In fact it had the opposite effect . This injunction will probably see Zijin start work on the North while they are having BBQ on AVZ camp site.

this relates to my enforcement showerthought. They aren;t losses unless you sell type of deal, until we request to enforce the emergency injunction.

And for monetary penalties, ICC has jurisdiction over 90% of banking institutions, and can block or hold transactions from ZJ to Cominiere, or any other organiztion to Cominiere to recoup damages.