AVZ Discussion 2022

[Dave Evans]

Except we are currently looking at negotiating a settlement to expedite clearing it up so we can get out of suspension and maybe get an ML.
Nige can claim "spurious and without merit" on as many things as he likes. It doesn't mean it doesn't have a material impact on SHs.

An adverse finding on litigation from a court in the country we are operating in, is still worthy of disclosure regardless of how spurious or meritorious it is.

Nut, I hope @Carlos Danger has answered your questions around disclosure to your satisfaction, but if not

I worked out last year when we went into suspension why our BOD didn’t disclose all the issues they were dealing with behind the scenes (and as we know the issues in question went into the year before that)

I’m not surprised that shareholders who haven’t been long time stock traders - investors never worked it out, but I’m sure there’s a couple of of experienced investors here who did and haven’t verbalised the reasons here

I’m not going to tell people why, if people haven’t worked out why that’s not my problem, and I couldn’t give a shit about others saying “why can’t you just say it” or “why talk in riddles” or any other bullshit like that.

If you’re not experienced enough to know, then maybe you have a few more years of trading - investing to do, and I mean holding 20 or more companies, spending 8 hours a day researching those companies and staying on top of all the issues behind every one of them

And I’ll tell you this much, there isn’t a single company on the ASX that would have been in the same position as AVZ and disclosed every issue it was dealing with behind the scenes. The most important factor to me is the fact that everything they have done has been legal

 

[wombat74]

After MMGA's fate is known surely with only $11 mil in the bank our enemies will wait to see if we can do a CR ? The sooner a CR is done the better . For now 2023 is done and dusted . IMO

 

[9cardomaha]

Update from me on ICC:

15% case JCM v AVZ, i believe we submitted request for the entire case be thrown out since the north has been returned (2nd Nov submissions)
- expected verdict on request next week.

Request to Increase Emergency Injunction fine from 50,000 Euros to 150,000 Euros per day (2nd Nov submissions)
- Expected verdict on request next week.

Jurisdictional hearing which occured in October won't have a verdict until 2024 Feb, but the request to have it thrown out will likely make this point moot.

 

[9cardomaha]

Update from me on ICC:

15% case JCM v AVZ, i believe we submitted request for the entire case be thrown out since the north has been returned (2nd Nov submissions)
- expected verdict on request next week.

Request to Increase Emergency Injunction fine from 50,000 Euros to 150,000 Euros per day (2nd Nov submissions)
- Expected verdict on request next week.

Jurisdictional hearing which occured in October won't have a verdict until 2024 Feb, but the request to have it thrown out will likely make this point moot.

I will also add that ZJ tried to change the arbitrator who granted us the Emergency Injunction for 50,000 to some other judge, but was unsuccessful - so the chances it gets increased is looking good.

But i wonder when we will seek enforcement of the injunction. that'll put a dent in ZJxCominiere's coffers.

 

[Winenut]

Update from me on ICC:

15% case JCM v AVZ, i believe we submitted request for the entire case be thrown out since the north has been returned (2nd Nov submissions)
- expected verdict on request next week.

Request to Increase Emergency Injunction fine from 50,000 Euros to 150,000 Euros per day (2nd Nov submissions)
- Expected verdict on request next week.

Jurisdictional hearing which occured in October won't have a verdict until 2024 Feb, but the request to have it thrown out will likely make this point moot.

On first point presumably because Zijin/Jin Cheng asked for illegal monies $33m for Dathcom 15% now instead be applied as payment for the North section PR 15775 and therefore they are not part of Dathcom JV

 

[Carlos Danger]

Update from me on ICC:

15% case JCM v AVZ, i believe we submitted request for the entire case be thrown out since the north has been returned (2nd Nov submissions)
- expected verdict on request next week.

Request to Increase Emergency Injunction fine from 50,000 Euros to 150,000 Euros per day (2nd Nov submissions)
- Expected verdict on request next week.

Jurisdictional hearing which occured in October won't have a verdict until 2024 Feb, but the request to have it thrown out will likely make this point moot.

So we are going for dismissal on Zijin having no grounds to claim the 15% anymore. Makes more sense than waiting for final decision if that won't be until February. I can't imagine Zijin would want to continue anyway so should be all over.

 

[Carlos Danger]

On first point presumably because Zijin/Jin Cheng asked for illegal monies $33m for Dathcom 15% now instead be applied as payment for the North section PR 15775 and therefore they are not part of Dathcom JV

 

[Scoota30]

Update from me on ICC:

15% case JCM v AVZ, i believe we submitted request for the entire case be thrown out since the north has been returned (2nd Nov submissions)
- expected verdict on request next week.

Request to Increase Emergency Injunction fine from 50,000 Euros to 150,000 Euros per day (2nd Nov submissions)
- Expected verdict on request next week.

Jurisdictional hearing which occured in October won't have a verdict until 2024 Feb, but the request to have it thrown out will likely make this point moot.

$159,000 USD per day, ouch.....

 

[Spikerama]

$159,000 USD per day, ouch.....

Cant wait to update this.

DRC ICC Penalty Calculator

Calculates the amount of penalties the DRC has incurred since first violation of ICC court ruling

drc-icc-violation-penalties-english.netlify.app

 

[Carlos Danger]

I will also add that ZJ tried to change the arbitrator who granted us the Emergency Injunction for 50,000 to some other judge, but was unsuccessful - so the chances it gets increased is looking good.

But i wonder when we will seek enforcement of the injunction. that'll put a dent in ZJxCominiere's coffers.

Why ZJ trying to change the arbiter?

Zijin's request to combine their cases with Cominiere was specifically knocked back by the ICC. As if they had a chance lmao

 

[John25]

Im a bit late but AGM

 

[9cardomaha]

JCM v AVZ (15% issue) is heard by the mysterious cruiseship delaying arbitaror - we submitted an emergency request to throw the case out completely with deadline for submissions today and expected decisions next week.

Emergency injunction is AVZ v Cominiere, which has a lady arbitrator if i am not mistaken, after the injunction was awarded on May 5, Zijin has lent their legal team to Cominiere (ie Fasken), who is now arguing on behalf of Cominiere to not increase the daily penalty and even remove the injunction all together.

(also fasken reps Zj and Cominiere in the joint case).

 

[Dave Evans]

 

[Carlos Danger]

JCM v AVZ (15% issue) is heard by the mysterious cruiseship delaying arbitaror - we submitted an emergency request to throw the case out completely with deadline for submissions today and expected decisions next week.

Emergency injunction is AVZ v Cominiere, which has a lady arbitrator if i am not mistaken, after the injunction was awarded on May 5, Zijin has lent their legal team to Cominiere (ie Fasken), who is now arguing on behalf of Cominiere to not increase the daily penalty and even remove the injunction all together.

(also fasken reps Zj and Cominiere in the joint case).

 

[9cardomaha]

X3

Depp: Are you gonna let me finish?

 

[Samus]

This is such a head fuck, what's the trickle down effect on the rest of the arbitrations if the initial hearing gets thrown out?
Puts a pretty big hole on Zijin's claim for any part of 13359. Have they fucked up badly with this latest market release

 

[9cardomaha]

This is such a head fuck, what's the trickle down effect on the rest of the arbitrations if the initial hearing gets thrown out?
Puts a pretty big whole on Zijin's claim for any part of 13359. Have they fucked up badly with this latest market release

I go back to my single domino falling theory - and yes their latest announcement gave us grounds to expedite instead of waiting to Feb 2024.

An emergency request to have it thrown out renders a verdict almost instantly (in the legal world). So could be the first piece to move, afterwhich, combined case from ZJ and Cominiere is also withdrawn, and as the sale of 15% is no longer in question, we withdraw one of the cases against Cominiere for the sale.

We would maintain Dathomir cases and the Emergency injunction against Cominiere - but i surmise that if the first domino falls, we will just seek enforcement of the new injunction amount, and then just hold the Dathomir case. (if we get an increase for injunction penalty, it will likely give us more leverage to negotiate too) but this all heresay your honour.

 

[Carlos Danger]

This is such a head fuck, what's the trickle down effect on the rest of the arbitrations if the initial hearing gets thrown out?
Puts a pretty big whole on Zijin's claim for any part of 13359. Have they fucked up badly with this latest market release

I go back to my single domino falling theory - and yes their latest announcement gave us grounds to expedite instead of waiting to Feb 2024.

An emergency request to have it thrown out renders a verdict almost instantly (in the legal world). So could be the first piece to move, afterwhich, combined case from ZJ and Cominiere is also withdrawn, and as the sale of 15% is no longer in question, we withdraw one of the cases against Cominiere for the sale.

We would maintain Dathomir cases and the Emergency injunction against Cominiere - but i surmise that if the first domino falls, we will just seek enforcement of the new injunction amount, and then just hold the Dathomir case. (if we get an increase for injunction penalty, it will likely give us more leverage to negotiate too) but this all heresay your honour.

If Zijin case is over then they are gone from Dathcom forever

Focus then becomes our claim against Cominiere for the purported termination of the Dathcom JVA and subsequent partition of the tenement. Pre-emption breach claim against Cominiere is gone as the sale didn't happen and they still hold 25% of Dathcom that we have FROR on 15% of.

Zijin and Cominiere's other combined case claiming damages goes away on lack of grounds as Zijin is not, and was never, a party of Dathcom

 

[Hudnut]

Nut, I hope @Carlos Danger has answered your questions around disclosure to your satisfaction, but if not

I worked out last year when we went into suspension why our BOD didn’t disclose all the issues they were dealing with behind the scenes (and as we know the issues in question went into the year before that)

If you worked that out AFTER AVZ went into suspension all that experience helped fuck all then I suppose.

I don't know if that was your intent, but I don't like to be talked down to.

I'm not saying the lack of disclosure is illegal. But it certainly screwed over more than a few of us while they continue to give themselves bonuses at a time when cashflow might become an issue.

We are all in the same boat, but some seem to be prepared to give the BoD a free pass for where we are.

 

[wombat74]

I go back to my single domino falling theory - and yes their latest announcement gave us grounds to expedite instead of waiting to Feb 2024.

An emergency request to have it thrown out renders a verdict almost instantly (in the legal world). So could be the first piece to move, afterwhich, combined case from ZJ and Cominiere is also withdrawn, and as the sale of 15% is no longer in question, we withdraw one of the cases against Cominiere for the sale.

We would maintain Dathomir cases and the Emergency injunction against Cominiere - but i surmise that if the first domino falls, we will just seek enforcement of the new injunction amount, and then just hold the Dathomir case. (if we get an increase for injunction penalty, it will likely give us more leverage to negotiate too) but this all heresay your honour.

Are we expecting the Chinese /DRC to abide by any of these ICC verdicts ?