AVZ Discussion 2022

[Xerof]

So if true Nigel has had this going around in his head the whole time . The dude must be a mental wreck . Could he have made such a fundamental blunder ? Money was paid .

On balance, I'm prepared to be content with the concept that an EGM was held to approve the option for 10%, just not reported, as settlement came quickly. Nowhere have I seen any protestation from DATHOMIR other than to say they wrote a letter to cancel the deal. Too late, agreement legally binding, and the fact that the value of the tenement was going up big time, isn't good cause. Can I go back to the buyer of my first house in 1978 and say, oh shit thats unfair, the price is much higher now. FO Cong

And besides, I also think the real reason Cong wanted to renege was because Z approached him with a much higher offer. I read somewhere, probably bloody der geist, that 5% of the COMINIERE 15% was 'given' to Cong free, and he sold it for US85million. Z are way out of pocket, if thats true, lol

 

[Scoota30]

So if true Nigel has had this going around in his head the whole time . The dude must be a mental wreck . Could he have made such a fundamental blunder ? Money was paid .

If you go back now and re-listen and watch the Germany interview on youtube, Nigel doesn't even look phased. Absolute cool cucumber.
You have to wonder what he already knows that the market doesn't....
- Like how the 10mtpa plant scoping study has/is progressing ("expected to be significantly progressed by end of December 2021)
- Lithium Hydroxide facility scoping study

 

[Sammy_da_Smile]

If you go back now and re-listen and watch the Germany interview on youtube, Nigel doesn't even look phased. Absolute cool cucumber.
You have to wonder what he already knows that the market doesn't....
- Like how the 10mtpa plant scoping study has/is progressing ("expected to be significantly progressed by end of December 2021)
- Lithium Hydroxide facility scoping study

Hoping to see the recent 121 presso. Haven't seen anything on YouTube so far.

 

[DiscoDanNZ]

Hoping to see the recent 121 presso. Haven't seen anything on YouTube so far.

I've seen this exert when it got to the part about what they will do to Zijin

 

[Sammy_da_Smile]

AVZ beantragt Handelspause: Das Lithiumunternehmen weist die Ansprüche von Jin Cheng Mining zurück - 12.05.22 - News - ARIVA.DE

Nachricht: AVZ beantragt Handelspause: Das Lithiumunternehmen weist die Ansprüche von Jin Cheng Mining zurück - 12.05.22 - News

www.ariva.de

AVZ applies to trade break: the Lithium company rejects Jin Cheng Mining's claims

Thursday, 12.05.2022 07:25 by axinocapital.de

The Australian AVZ holds the majority at the world's largest lithium storage site (fixed stone/Congo) through an object company. The expansion is being moved. From an AVZ point of view, however, a clear thing.

AVZ International Pty Ltd. a 100% subsidiary of AVZ Minerals Ltd. (ASX: AVZ, FSE: 3A2has received a request from Jin Cheng Mining for an arbitration procedure before the International Chamber of Commerce in Paris (ICC). In it, the Chinese company is trying to be recognized as a shareholder of Dathcom Mining SA. These claims are rejected by AVZ Minerals.

The background of the dispute is the property rights at Dathcom Mining SA, which belongs to the Manono lithium project in the Congo. Those who are recognized as the Dathcom's legal shareholder therefore hold a share of the project. For AVZ Minerals, this is the 100% subsidiary AVZ International Pty. Ltd.

For this reason, it has also received the request for the proposed introduction of an arbitration procedure before the International Chamber of Commerce in Paris and the changes of writing that it belongs. In his request, Jin Cheng Mining calls for being recognized as a legitimate shareholder of Dathcom Mining.

AVZ Minerals considers the demand unfounded
AVZ Minerals as the parent company now confirms the entry of the application and the entire letter change, but strongly rejects the claims contained in it. In the background is the claim that Jin Cheng Mining has taken over by La Congolaise D'Exploitation Miniere SA (Cominiere) has taken over their 15% share of Dathcom.

AVZ Minerals sees an effort to now initiate an arbitration procedure, another attempt to support the unauthorized claim in the media that one is a legitimate shareholder of Dathcom Mining.

In fact, however, the content is denied with all determination, because if it had actually come to the alleged transfer of shares to Jin Cheng, it is invalid because it undermines the contractually fixed pre-purchase right of AVZ Minerals.

The demands are bullying and unfounded
AVZ Minerals is now examining the request submitted and the change of writing. The AVZ management explains that it wants to take all necessary measures to fight against Jin Chengs „harassment and unfounded demands and to protect the interests of Dathcom and the company.

The procedure before the ICC in Paris is linked to a commitment to confidentiality. This is of course taking note of AVZ Minerals. On the other hand, however, it is also aware of its information obligations to their own shareholders and will therefore continue to inform the market in accordance with all its duties.

For investors investors, this is annoying news, because they indicate that the course of the AVZ mineral share could be subject to strong fluctuations in the coming weeks, although for AVZ Minerals, the legal situation is actually clear and above any doubt due to its contractually fixed pre-purchase rights.

 

[BEISHA]

Reviewing sydneyguy's stellar post again: https://hotcrapper.com.au/threads/running-discussion-on-sp.4111732/page-70754?post_id=61271347

As you all know by now I am long AVZ so don't shoot me for asking this honest question as I can't find the answer (though I hope HC trollers don't find this post and create FUD with it):
I can see that AVZ executed the 5% of Dathcom from Dathomir on 24 June 2019. Extraordinary General Meeting (EGM) specifically mentioned as required to approve the sale. Following this, on 1 October 2019, AVZ announced that the EGM was convened and sale of the 5% to AVZ was approved. Cool, 65% definitely in the bag. No question about it.
Then AVZ on 21 Sept 2020 announced executing the option to purchase 10% of Dathcom from Dathomir. Again, EGM mentioned as a requirement to approve the sale. However, I have not been able to find another mention/announcement of this second EGM as happened for the initial 5% purchase. So my question: does anyone know for sure that this second EGM has been convened to approved the 10% sale from Dathomir? I know that the balance of the two payments have been made to Dathomir for the full 15% share, but might this EGM requirement be Dathomir's way of throwing mud on our project share?


Found what I believe to be the surface rights fees for DRC from my research tonight:
Page 56 of https://www.cabemery.org/wp-content/uploads/The_Mining_Law_Review_DRC_Chapter.pdf
Fees current as of November 2012 (so might be a little out-dated):
"For holders of PEs, the fees are in Congolese francs, equivalent to US$0.04 per hectare for the first year, US$0.06 per hectare for the second year, US$0.07 per hectare for the third year and US$0.08 per hectare for subsequent years."
Above figures also corroborated with this source: https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/m...in-the-democratic-republic-of-the-congo-20622
So, Manono project is 188 square kilometres i.e. 18,800 hectares (1 square kilometre = 100 hectares). So 18,800 x US$0.04 = US$752.00 for the first year. Not an alarming figure at all.

I am aware that there is a more recent source (November 2021): https://thelawreviews.co.uk/title/the-mining-law-review/democratic-republic-of-the-congo-mining-law
In this source: "Any holder of a research or exploitation permit is subject to a surface right at the rate of US$5.89 per quadrangle."

Your guess is as good as mine as to what unit of measurement a quadrangle is but assuming that it is a square kilometre, it conveniently equates to US$0.0589 per hectare (which is a slight increase from the aforementioned Nov 2012 sources). Using this assumption, the surface rights fee for the first year should be US$1,107.32.

Anyway DYOR.

Oh, and here's the DRC's official mining code from 2018: https://eiti.org/sites/default/files/attachments/j_o_ndeg_speicial_du_28_mars_2018_code_minier.pdf


Also, a scenario that I have been pondering (along with my investor mate). What if, it was actually Nigel who is delaying the CATH transaction from closing because he is aware of all these extra fingers in the pie and does not want to give away the 24% too early without concrete and public support from the DRC about the Zijin/Jin Cheng invaders? Because right now, I am feeling relieved that Nigel has not sold the 24% because that is the thing that allows us alternative backup options in case the Chinese play dirty and DRC don't want to stamp their illegal deals out hard. Is it a case of CATH been raring to send us the cash after removing ML as a condition but NF telling CATH that he won't accept it until this is sorted? Because I don't know what other reasons CATH has for removing ML as a condition but yet still don't want to transfer the money. If If CATH was doing China's bidding, they would rush to complete the transaction immediately before this Zijin/Jin Cheng issue comes to the surface because that would weaken AVZ's position when dealing with this issue. Anyway, I am very glad that the CATH deal has not been closed yet because project share is king in this situation. Now Jin Cheng is begging us to talk with them.

Anyway just my 2c. DYOR. Bedtime for me

Hey mate, dont ever think we are going " shoot " you for asking honest questions, this is TSE not HC , smart people here, all posing probabilities , an open minded , respectful forum, with different opinions is very healthy, after all, we are significantly invested in AVZ in our various capacities , questions that you have, might be something that the group has over looked , so dont hesitate in speaking your mind.

Personally, i am only taking notice of the formal announcements that Nigel releases, the truth is there, not on twitter or anywhere else, so the conspiracy theories can FO until proven other wise.

As long as AVZ have minimum 51% control, the rest can be worked out later.

Markets havnt priced in the " other 15%.

AVZ has a mine to build ASAP if DRC wants to produce by EOY 2023

It would be wise for the DRC to get its shit together and prove to the world that they are open and honest to do business with , allowing a corrupt entity Zijin to dictate terms with AVZ in this current shit storm, would negate that sentiment big time and would ensure that the DRC people remain in the poverty cycle. !!

Time for Felix to display his gonads..............walk the walk.

imo

 

[BEISHA]

My student is already exceeding my expectations with his " express TA " learnings, check out the HC LTR chart thread.....

Pretty impressive if i dont say myself

Like i said, HC is going to wish it didnt mess with ROBIN HOOD

Who will be my next student to put their hand up for some " express ta " ?

Just PM me, happy to help build this great platform that is TSE, taking from the wealthy to the poor is how i operate.

imo

 

[Samus]

Had been thinking along the same lines that AVZ likely the ones holding up the CATH payment at least more recently.
You'd think they'd have paid it straight after the technical approval even if they were waiting on the mining licence despite saying that precondition had been waived. It all makes a bit of sense. Makes more sense than the assumption that CATH wasn't paying until the mining licence after waiving the said condition frankly and management have known about this issue for some time. I bet they were hoping to have a swifter resolution without openly spooking the market.

 

[DiscoDanNZ]

My student is already exceeding my expectations with his " express TA " learnings, check out the HC LTR chart thread.....

Pretty impressive if i dont say myself

Like i said, HC is going to wish it didnt mess with ROBIN HOOD

View attachment 6437
Who will be my next student to put their hand up for some " express ta " ?

Just PM me, happy to help build this great platform that is TSE, taking from the wealthy to the poor is how i operate.

imo

https://hotcrapper.com.au/threads/new-ta-charting.4810308/page-8156?post_id=61380445

Outstanding post that one, concise and to the point

 

[BEISHA]

https://hotcrapper.com.au/threads/new-ta-charting.4810308/page-8156?post_id=61380445

Outstanding post that one, concise and to the point

Did you give it a like ?
If everyone gives it a like PLUS a comment too, then HC LTR threads could be alot of fun...........

Especially fun for the winos and the covid sick who have nothing better to do but have a laugh and throw their woes away for a bit of RR

TSE we are smart cats..............not red necks.

Have a good day everyone, i gotta go to work, beautiful sunny perth weather back and my portfolio is green, life is good.

May our comrades who are doing it tough with covid, get better soon.!!

imo

 

[DiscoDanNZ]

I'm suspended until the 14th so no

Did you give it a like ?
If everyone gives it a like PLUS a comment too, then HC LTR threads could be alot of fun...........


View attachment 6442

 

[investinvest]

Refusing to Participate in Arbitration Proceedings • Aceris Law

www.acerislaw.com

As much as I'd like AVZ to FO Jin Cheng's plead for an arbitration, we may not be able to avoid participating in it as it seems that it can still proceed in our absence. Better to be able to make a defence with real evidence rather than let the arbitrators decide based on just dodgy Jin Cheng documents. I'll let AVZ BoD and lawyers and DRC top brass make the best decision.

Introduction to International Arbitration

This Quickguide provides an introduction to international arbitration, its key characteristics and how it works. It concludes with a comparison between arbitration and court litigation.

www.ashurst.com

"Privacy and confidentiality
Arbitration is particularly advantageous for commercial parties because of the privacy and confidentiality that it can offer. Hearings generally take place in private. Parties can agree that the hearing and evidence, and any other material created or disclosed in the proceedings, be kept confidential, and that they (and the arbitrators) will not disclose any information about the arbitration. In comparison, court documents and hearings are generally public."
I wonder if this is why Jin Cheng is begging for arbitration instead of pursuing litigation in DRC, as they get to keep their dodgy documents in private arbitration instead of revealing them in public in DRC and risking being kicked out of their other DRC projects.

"A contracting state may only refuse to enforce an award if:
...
- it would be contrary to public policy to enforce the award."
Hopefully Felix/DRC sticks to their public policy of stamping out corruption in the DRC.

DYOR

 

[Samus]

AVZ beantragt Handelspause: Das Lithiumunternehmen weist die Ansprüche von Jin Cheng Mining zurück - 12.05.22 - News - ARIVA.DE

Nachricht: AVZ beantragt Handelspause: Das Lithiumunternehmen weist die Ansprüche von Jin Cheng Mining zurück - 12.05.22 - News

www.ariva.de

AVZ applies to trade break: the Lithium company rejects Jin Cheng Mining's claims

Thursday, 12.05.2022 07:25 by axinocapital.de

The Australian AVZ holds the majority at the world's largest lithium storage site (fixed stone/Congo) through an object company. The expansion is being moved. From an AVZ point of view, however, a clear thing.

AVZ International Pty Ltd. a 100% subsidiary of AVZ Minerals Ltd. (ASX: AVZ, FSE: 3A2has received a request from Jin Cheng Mining for an arbitration procedure before the International Chamber of Commerce in Paris (ICC). In it, the Chinese company is trying to be recognized as a shareholder of Dathcom Mining SA. These claims are rejected by AVZ Minerals.

The background of the dispute is the property rights at Dathcom Mining SA, which belongs to the Manono lithium project in the Congo. Those who are recognized as the Dathcom's legal shareholder therefore hold a share of the project. For AVZ Minerals, this is the 100% subsidiary AVZ International Pty. Ltd.

For this reason, it has also received the request for the proposed introduction of an arbitration procedure before the International Chamber of Commerce in Paris and the changes of writing that it belongs. In his request, Jin Cheng Mining calls for being recognized as a legitimate shareholder of Dathcom Mining.

AVZ Minerals considers the demand unfounded
AVZ Minerals as the parent company now confirms the entry of the application and the entire letter change, but strongly rejects the claims contained in it. In the background is the claim that Jin Cheng Mining has taken over by La Congolaise D'Exploitation Miniere SA (Cominiere) has taken over their 15% share of Dathcom.

AVZ Minerals sees an effort to now initiate an arbitration procedure, another attempt to support the unauthorized claim in the media that one is a legitimate shareholder of Dathcom Mining.

In fact, however, the content is denied with all determination, because if it had actually come to the alleged transfer of shares to Jin Cheng, it is invalid because it undermines the contractually fixed pre-purchase right of AVZ Minerals.

The demands are bullying and unfounded
AVZ Minerals is now examining the request submitted and the change of writing. The AVZ management explains that it wants to take all necessary measures to fight against Jin Chengs „harassment and unfounded demands and to protect the interests of Dathcom and the company.

The procedure before the ICC in Paris is linked to a commitment to confidentiality. This is of course taking note of AVZ Minerals. On the other hand, however, it is also aware of its information obligations to their own shareholders and will therefore continue to inform the market in accordance with all its duties.

For investors investors, this is annoying news, because they indicate that the course of the AVZ mineral share could be subject to strong fluctuations in the coming weeks, although for AVZ Minerals, the legal situation is actually clear and above any doubt due to its contractually fixed pre-purchase rights.

Nice to see one news outlet that gets it.

If you go back now and re-listen and watch the Germany interview on youtube, Nigel doesn't even look phased. Absolute cool cucumber.
You have to wonder what he already knows that the market doesn't....
- Like how the 10mtpa plant scoping study has/is progressing ("expected to be significantly progressed by end of December 2021)
- Lithium Hydroxide facility scoping study

We know this issue has been dragging on for some time, it's only come to a crescendo recently as zijin started making a lot more public noise in this last ditch effort. (perhaps the Twitter twit forced their hand)
It'd have been business as usual for him with this spectre in the background since some time last year.
He's been sound in the knowledge that these attempts from zijin have taken illegal and corrupt back door channels.
The political back story is clearly a mess but everything we've been reading suggests the current government won't bend over and tolerate this sort of behaviour any more.
Hence some unrelated court in France for this latest arbitration attempt imo.
The fact we haven't heard much specific from the DRC yet is uncomfortable but it should be coming and you can't see how they'll possibly spin it to make this behaviour seem acceptable.

 

[Frank]

Frank, I see the Minister is wearing her DUE DILIGENCE dress

Lol, Fyi, She's a busy girl Bro, with a lot on her plate mate, as

Congo mines minister seeks to cancel artisanal cobalt monopoly​

Democratic Republic of Congo Mines Minister Antoinette N’Samba Kalambayi is seeking to cancel a decree granting Entreprise Generale du Cobalt (EGC) a monopoly over artisanal cobalt produced in the country, she told Reuters on Wednesday.

EGC was created to buy, process, and market artisanal cobalt by government decree in December 2019 and officially launched on March 31 last year but has yet to purchase any cobalt ore.

Artisanal miners, who dig cobalt with rudimentary means, are the world’s second-largest source of the metal used in electric vehicle batteries after the Congo’s industrial mines.

A unit of state mining company Gecamines, EGC’s operations has stalled due to infighting between government departments, leadership change at Gecamines, and the challenge of securing access to a viable artisanal site to buy from.

Asked for her view on EGC, Kalambayi said: “I wouldn’t say I am for or against, but one thing is certain: we gave the monopoly to Entreprise Generale du Cobalt (EGC), and that is a violation of the laws of the Republic.”

The mines minister does not seek to dissolve EGC, but merely to cancel the legal monopoly it has, she said, so that all companies can compete to buy artisanal cobalt.

EGC did not immediately respond to an emailed request for comment on the minister’s remarks.

Speaking on the sidelines of the Mining Indaba conference in Cape Town, Kalambayi said the move to cancel the decree would be reviewed by the Congo’s ministerial council and by the prime minister.

Congo mines minister seeks to cancel artisanal cobalt monopoly - Copperbelt Katanga Mining

Democratic Republic of Congo Mines Minister Antoinette N’Samba Kalambayi is seeking to cancel a decree granting Entreprise Generale du Cobalt (EGC)

copperbeltkatangamining.com

GLTA-AVZH's

Cheers

Frank

 

[wombat74]

Here is another worthy post from over there by Helios11 .

People need to stop overthinking. Listen to the company. Read the DRC Mininig Code. Understand the requirements of the mining code for the DRC Mines Minister to sign the Decree. If you understand these three points, and not even think about the contract stuff. You will see its all fine.

Nigel was clear. 75% during his most recent interview.
AVZ has been clear, the have 75%, they have legal titles.
DRC minister has signed Decree for 75% (Good Title).

Zinjin rushed in, thought they had buy of the century and have realized they have lost. Disinformation campaign at its best.

The rules and precedents are quite clear. The contract as pointed out provided AVZ FROR. Furthermore, as combaste pointed out, elements in the contract restrict the pledging of shares until financing has been declared in reference to the feasibility study. This same feasibility study, and financial ability were put before Mines Minister to sign the Decree. All above board and legal.

I pointed out last night some time, a few requirements under the DRC mining code to move beyond Exploration to Exploitation. Simpy put, a company must have and remain with 51% or greater of shares in the controlling company. Again, simple. Anyone, any company (Zinjin), and media outlet, (AFR), writing and releasing uninformed information could be subject to legal action for not doing thier own DD.

DRC must remain with 10% shareholding as part of the DRC Mining Code. No other situation allows anyone other than AVZ to retain 51% of Dathcom, to mine Manano.

 

[Samus]

Refusing to Participate in Arbitration Proceedings • Aceris Law

www.acerislaw.com

As much as I'd like AVZ to FO Jin Cheng's plead for an arbitration, we may not be able to avoid participating in it as it seems that it can still proceed in our absence. Better to be able to make a defence with real evidence rather than let the arbitrators decide based on just dodgy Jin Cheng documents. I'll let AVZ BoD and lawyers and DRC top brass make the best decision.

Introduction to International Arbitration

This Quickguide provides an introduction to international arbitration, its key characteristics and how it works. It concludes with a comparison between arbitration and court litigation.

www.ashurst.com

"Privacy and confidentiality
Arbitration is particularly advantageous for commercial parties because of the privacy and confidentiality that it can offer. Hearings generally take place in private. Parties can agree that the hearing and evidence, and any other material created or disclosed in the proceedings, be kept confidential, and that they (and the arbitrators) will not disclose any information about the arbitration. In comparison, court documents and hearings are generally public."
I wonder if this is why Jin Cheng is begging for arbitration instead of pursuing litigation in DRC, as they get to keep their dodgy documents in private arbitration instead of revealing them in public in DRC and risking being kicked out of their other DRC projects.

"A contracting state may only refuse to enforce an award if:
...
- it would be contrary to public policy to enforce the award."
Hopefully Felix/DRC sticks to their public policy of stamping out corruption in the DRC.

DYOR

Interesting this first sentence:

Parties who signed a binding arbitration agreement are, in principle, bound by its terms.

In what manner might AVZ have signed a binding arbitration agreement?

This legal stuff is way over my head for the most part.

 

[Manook]

Agree with this

The Chinese are ruthless, it's better to undergo it now while Felix is still in power. Can you imagine going through this if he doesn't win the election again?

For me, AVZ doesn't have the cash, time or experience to take the fight to zijin. We really need DRC investigation to rule in our favour.

Can you imagine a big mining company facing these claims and taking it laying down? We unfortunately have to imo. They'd probably send all the lawyers and take the other party to court.

When this is all done and dusted and if we come through with the absolute ownership, for me the next risk hurdle is the 2023 elections.

I wonder how much the Chinese will influence it....

DR Congo: Provincial elections a dress rehearsal for 2023 polls

Observers say the provincial elections were tainted by irregularities that could reoccur on a grander scale in 2023.

www.google.com

 

[Samus]

Interesting this first sentence:

Parties who signed a binding arbitration agreement are, in principle, bound by its terms.

In what manner might AVZ have signed a binding arbitration agreement?

This legal stuff is way over my head for the most part.

Also sounds like zijin would have to hand over all of their evidence/documentation to AVZ for review :

The arbitrator also needs to ensure that the other party has been given a fair opportunity to present its case and, if it decides, to start participating at any given moment. In practice, ensuring that the other party has received all notifications, documents and correspondence related to the case can easily be proven from “read” and “delivery” receipts for every email exchanged, and by providing hard copies of all documents and correspondence on the record, together with proof of delivery. In a nutshell, ensuring that the other party has been duly and timely notified about each and every step of the arbitration proceedings and has received every single document submitted on the record is important in order not to face challenges at the enforcement stage.

That can't be ideal for zijin or for the DRC from what we know. Got to wonder if this is just more intimidation tactics to try to force a favourable outcome.

 

[Sammy_da_Smile]

Also sounds like zijin would have to hand over all of their evidence/documentation to AVZ for review :

The arbitrator also needs to ensure that the other party has been given a fair opportunity to present its case and, if it decides, to start participating at any given moment. In practice, ensuring that the other party has received all notifications, documents and correspondence related to the case can easily be proven from “read” and “delivery” receipts for every email exchanged, and by providing hard copies of all documents and correspondence on the record, together with proof of delivery. In a nutshell, ensuring that the other party has been duly and timely notified about each and every step of the arbitration proceedings and has received every single document submitted on the record is important in order not to face challenges at the enforcement stage.

That can't be ideal for zijin or for the DRC from what we know. Got to wonder if this is just more intimidation tactics to try to force a favourable outcome.

I doubt that a multi billion dollar company such a zijin would engage if they didn't think they would win? Just have to wait and see, it seems both Co's think they are correct for the moment?

 

[Samus]

I doubt that a multi billion dollar company such a zijin would engage if they didn't think they would win? Just have to wait and see, it seems both Co's think they are correct for the moment?

Who knows, perhaps they're just trying their luck. Best case they get a slice of Manono, worst case they write off some legal expenses.