AVZ Discussion 2022

[M.Bison]

Mate, I am unsure why nobody wants the ICSID arbitration to proceed. Nothing has worked to date, AVZ is ignored by the DRC govt, the ICC seems a bit insipid, and the impasse remains. As we are acutely aware, the DRC govt, its agencies and the judiciary are corrupt to the core. And Chinese miners are complicit in this corruption. As a result, AVZ is cornered and faced with endless shitfuckery as it defends its ownership of Manono.

From my perspective, it's a good thing that AVZ is calling out the DRC govt and its agencies through this process. On the available evidence, particularly the IGF report, road-blocking by CAMI and arbitrary ministerial decision-making, AVZ seems to stand a good chance of a favorable outcome. While it may take a while to unfold and finalise, ICSID arbitration carries a big stick. For instance, it's awards (decisions) are binding and enforceable, and not subject to appeal in any international or domestic court. That means that the DRC and its agencies cannot appeal to a friendly domestic court if they lose, and Zijin cannot bribe its way to a favorable decision.

In addition, there is no binding precedent, which means that the DRC cannot rely on previous awards made in other cases in its defence, and also cannot rely on diplomatic immunity to avoid compliance with an award.

Having said all that, I agree with you that a negotiated settlement prior to arbitration is a strong possibility.

Cheers
F

Probably because ICSID is going to take a long time. And although we are confident, the outcome is not guaranteed. They may also be ordered to pay back what has been spent and tell us to move on. Unlikely but who can say that won't happen.
A takeover that could yield a better result and be done within months is better than waiting years for an unknown result.
Agree that nothing has worked, and ICSID is a good move.

 

[SilentOne]

Mate, I am unsure why nobody wants the ICSID arbitration to proceed. Nothing has worked to date, AVZ is ignored by the DRC govt, the ICC seems a bit insipid, and the impasse remains. As we are acutely aware, the DRC govt, its agencies and the judiciary are corrupt to the core. And Chinese miners are complicit in this corruption. As a result, AVZ is cornered and faced with endless shitfuckery as it defends its ownership of Manono.

From my perspective, it's a good thing that AVZ is calling out the DRC govt and its agencies through this process. On the available evidence, particularly the IGF report, road-blocking by CAMI and arbitrary ministerial decision-making, AVZ seems to stand a good chance of a favorable outcome. While it may take a while to unfold and finalise, ICSID arbitration carries a big stick. For instance, it's awards (decisions) are binding and enforceable, and not subject to appeal in any international or domestic court. That means that the DRC and its agencies cannot appeal to a friendly domestic court if they lose, and Zijin cannot bribe its way to a favorable decision.

In addition, there is no binding precedent, which means that the DRC cannot rely on previous awards made in other cases in its defence, and also cannot rely on diplomatic immunity to avoid compliance with an award.

Having said all that, I agree with you that a negotiated settlement prior to arbitration is a strong possibility.

Cheers
F

Flight - Great Summary - Fully agree with your perspective

 

[David Krappenschitz]

In addition, there is no binding precedent, which means that the DRC cannot rely on previous awards made in other cases in its defence, and also cannot rely on diplomatic immunity to avoid compliance with an award.

Interesting. So would this mean that in the unlikely scenario of unfavourable ICC rulings, any ICSID ruling would override any /all of the ICC cases?

 

[Flight996]

Interesting. So would this mean that in the unlikely scenario of unfavourable ICC rulings, any ICSID ruling would override any /all of the ICC cases?

My understanding is that the ICC arbitrations involve different parties, different issues, and subsequent remedies would be different. Only the ICSID claim names the DRC government as a respondent.

Cheers
F

 

[wombat74]

Do we have any proof negotiations ever happened ? Or was it just a load of bollocks to keep punters quiet ? To get punters off the BoD's back ?

 

[John25]

Ok ok ok …it’ll be nice just too see either Nigel /Ben or John on the ground in Manono …dont want ins or outs of whats going on …maybe a few selfies near the Manono sign or with locals just too prove they’re on the ground doing fucking something in the vicinity …its not too much …is it ?????

 

[Uglybob]

Well put Flight.

Sounds like the BoD's hand has been forced because no matter what they do, Felix the Impotent refuses to come to the party or do anything about the unprecedented corruption the "worlds best BoD(tm)" are fighting. They can keep filing paperwork hoping for an outcome they have now realised may never come, or they take it to the courts. Even though it may take time, the court route does have a finite timeline so it's still likely to yield results faster than just waiting for DRC to do their thing, which has taken almost 60 weeks so far.

 

[Retrobyte]

Mate, I am unsure why nobody wants the ICSID arbitration to proceed. Nothing has worked to date, AVZ is ignored by the DRC govt, the ICC seems a bit insipid, and the impasse remains. As we are acutely aware, the DRC govt, its agencies and the judiciary are corrupt to the core. And Chinese miners are complicit in this corruption. As a result, AVZ is cornered and faced with endless shitfuckery as it defends its ownership of Manono.

Because winning against the DRC Government in an international court case will not create a very pleasant relationship with them for building a mine and processing plant in the DRC and continuing to do business in the country in the years ahead. The ICSID case is a lever, and the case won't proceed to arbitration. To do so would be the end of the line for AVZ in the DRC, win or lose.

 

[Azzler]

Do we have any proof negotiations ever happened ? Or was it just a load of bollocks to keep punters quiet ? To get punters off the BoD's back ?

No one has proof of anything Mr. Wombles, some appear to have access to people close to the guys in charge however, and unless it's official from the Horses mouth, all info has always been rumors, speculation and word of mouth with no proof.
I think those sharing information are sworn to secrecy, and keeping their groups tight.
And it's gone very quiet because serious battles are going on.

I've been hearing some things from different directions, and they're matching up.
Wheels do appear to be in motion. Time frame maybe not that long, but who the hell really knows.
ICSID appears to have given AVZ a far more powerful position to negotiate.
A boss move as it turns out, and not reactionary from a position of weakness as many first thought.

Court cases, in my opinion don't even need to play out.

 

[Carlos Danger]

No one has proof of anything Mr. Wombles, some people appear to have access to people close to the guys in charge however, and unless it's official from the Horses mouth, all info has always been rumors, speculation and word of mouth with no proof.
I think those sharing information are sworn to secrecy, and keepting their groups tight.
And it's gone very quiet because serious battles are going on.

I've been hearing some things from different directions, and they're matching up.
Wheels do appear to be in motion. Time frame maybe not that long, but who the hell really knows.
ICSID appears to have given AVZ a far more powerful position to negotiate.
A boss move as it turns out, and not reactionary from a position of weakness as many first thought.

Court cases, in my opinion don't even need to play out.

 

[Onthefm]

View attachment 39001

Mines fucked been on ice for 18 fucken months. So fuck the champagne until I'm out of this complete and utter fuck up.

 

[geo_au]

The US announced new sanctions targeting the Wagner Group’s gold mining activities in Africa as part of a bid to hamper the mercenary group’s ability to fund itself, days after it mounted a mutiny against President Vladimir Putin’s forces.​

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The sanctions targeted Midas Ressources, a mining company in Central African Republic affiliated with Wagner leader Yevgeny Prigozhin, the Treasury Department said. Also targeted was Diamville, a gold and diamond purchasing company controlled by Prigozhin, Treasury said.
Tuesday’s action was the latest in a string of sanctions imposed on the Wagner Group and Prigozhin by the US and its allies in recent years. A person familiar with the US stance, who asked not to be identified discussing internal deliberations, said the action had been planned well before Prigozhin’s forces launched the mutiny over the weekend. The US has sought to avoid taking sides in the conflict between the Kremlin and the mercenary chief.

Two other companies and a Russian national identified as a Wagner Group executive were also targeted Tuesday.
“Treasury’s sanctions disrupt key actors in the Wagner Group’s financial network and international structure,” Under Secretary of the Treasury for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence Brian Nelson said in a statement.

Could the US do the same to Zijjin for illegal activities.

 

[Samus]

 

[ptlas]

TikTok - Make Your Day

vt.tiktok.com

 

[Frank]

View attachment 38978

View attachment 38979

*Oh the Irony of it all, So much so ya gotta Laugh when you see and read that Shit imo

When Jules Alingete and his Team from the IGF have gathered in the Felix Tshisekedi amphitheater,

To discuss progress in the Fight against Corruption of all places

Talk about a bit close to home

Not to mention who he tags

None other than B1 & B2

The DRC is truly Bananas

Food for thought

Frank

 

[Dazmac66]

View attachment 39013




View attachment 39014

*Oh the Irony of it all, So much so ya gotta Laugh when you see and read that Shit imo

When Jules Alingete and his Team from the IGF have gathered in the Felix Tshisekedi amphitheater,

To discuss progress in the Fight against Corruption of all places

Talk about a bit close to home

Not to mention who he tags

None other than B1 & B2

The DRC is truly Bananas

Food for thought

Frank

They will probably take it as a compliment!!

 

[Frank]

*Fyi, The following is likely to make you all want to either

Launch of the work of the 2ᵉ country risk conference 2023

The Prime Minister, Jean-Michel Sama Lukonde, opened, this Wednesday, June 28, 2023, the second edition of the Country Risk Conference of the Democratic Republic of Congo for the year 2023, in Kinshasa.

Organized by the Ministry of Finance, this conference is an important moment to review the 2023 Country Risk Study report, which aims to map the country's investment risks, a report prepared by Bloomfield investment corporation (BIC), a pan-African rating agency.

Presenting the results of the study, the Chairman and CEO of Bloomfield investment corporation, Stanislas Zeze, combed through the five important elements that have made it possible to better understand the risks that the DRC represents in terms of investments.

These include the business climate, macroeconomic performance achieved by the Government, public finance management, the soundness of the financial system and socio-political risk.

Basically, the Democratic Republic of the Congo improved its rating from 5.1 in 2022 to 5.5 in 2023.

This represents an increase of 40 points.

A positive note which places the DRC in a position of moderate risk for investments.

The Democratic Republic of Congo does not present any obstacle to investments even if a lot of efforts are to be made in improving the business climate.

The Minister of Finance, Nicolas Kazadi, who reacted to this study, was satisfied with the progress made in the DRC.

For him, this positive rating obtained is sufficient testimony to the efforts made by the Sama Lukonde Government in several sectors.

The DRC is therefore on a very positive dynamic economically.

Officially opening the work of this conference, the Prime Minister, Jean-Michel Sama Lukonde thanked the Bloomfield Investment Corporation Agency for the honesty and transparency with which it conducted this study.

The Head of Government welcomed the positive note obtained by the DRC.

However, he stressed the need to place particular emphasis on investments with the private sector.

“I would like to thank Mr. Stanislas Zeze for a second time that he paints us a clear picture of what is the investment risk here in our country.

I salute the honesty with which he made this assessment.

Here is an opportunity for us to look in the mirror and assess how we can improve things where they have not been and project ourselves into a better future.

I would like here, after this evaluation that was given to us and this fortunately progressive rating, going from 5.1 to 5.5, and therefore an increase of 40 points, to mention that the Government's effort to improve not only the business climate, but especially our investment potential, goes in the direction of answering a social question at the highest level, that of the creation of jobs and the creation of wealth.

Here it goes through the diversification of our economy.

We recognize that beyond the efforts we make, the real answer will come from the private sector with the investments we expect.

This is why we are here, to talk about precisely this, the investments that must be made,” said Prime Minister Jean-Michel Sama Lukonde.

It should be noted that this conference gives the floor to key players in the socio-economic environment, during open debates through four panels addressing the main issues raised in the country risk report.

It is therefore a question of leading to reflections making it possible to generate solutions on the various aspects mentioned in the DRC 2023 country risk report.

mediacongo


*Sounds like someone needs to "Enlighten" the Chairman / CEO of Bloomfield investment corporation, Stanislas Zeze on AVZ / Manono imo


Food for thought

Frank

 

[Dazmac66]

5.5 out of 10 000!

 

[Xerof]

*Fyi, The following is likely to make you all want to either

Launch of the work of the 2ᵉ country risk conference 2023

View attachment 39023

The Prime Minister, Jean-Michel Sama Lukonde, opened, this Wednesday, June 28, 2023, the second edition of the Country Risk Conference of the Democratic Republic of Congo for the year 2023, in Kinshasa.

Organized by the Ministry of Finance, this conference is an important moment to review the 2023 Country Risk Study report, which aims to map the country's investment risks, a report prepared by Bloomfield investment corporation (BIC), a pan-African rating agency.

Presenting the results of the study, the Chairman and CEO of Bloomfield investment corporation, Stanislas Zeze, combed through the five important elements that have made it possible to better understand the risks that the DRC represents in terms of investments.

These include the business climate, macroeconomic performance achieved by the Government, public finance management, the soundness of the financial system and socio-political risk.

Basically, the Democratic Republic of the Congo improved its rating from 5.1 in 2022 to 5.5 in 2023.

This represents an increase of 40 points.

A positive note which places the DRC in a position of moderate risk for investments.

The Democratic Republic of Congo does not present any obstacle to investments even if a lot of efforts are to be made in improving the business climate.

The Minister of Finance, Nicolas Kazadi, who reacted to this study, was satisfied with the progress made in the DRC.

For him, this positive rating obtained is sufficient testimony to the efforts made by the Sama Lukonde Government in several sectors.

The DRC is therefore on a very positive dynamic economically.

Officially opening the work of this conference, the Prime Minister, Jean-Michel Sama Lukonde thanked the Bloomfield Investment Corporation Agency for the honesty and transparency with which it conducted this study.

The Head of Government welcomed the positive note obtained by the DRC.

However, he stressed the need to place particular emphasis on investments with the private sector.

“I would like to thank Mr. Stanislas Zeze for a second time that he paints us a clear picture of what is the investment risk here in our country.

I salute the honesty with which he made this assessment.

Here is an opportunity for us to look in the mirror and assess how we can improve things where they have not been and project ourselves into a better future.

I would like here, after this evaluation that was given to us and this fortunately progressive rating, going from 5.1 to 5.5, and therefore an increase of 40 points, to mention that the Government's effort to improve not only the business climate, but especially our investment potential, goes in the direction of answering a social question at the highest level, that of the creation of jobs and the creation of wealth.

Here it goes through the diversification of our economy.

We recognize that beyond the efforts we make, the real answer will come from the private sector with the investments we expect.

This is why we are here, to talk about precisely this, the investments that must be made,” said Prime Minister Jean-Michel Sama Lukonde.

It should be noted that this conference gives the floor to key players in the socio-economic environment, during open debates through four panels addressing the main issues raised in the country risk report.

It is therefore a question of leading to reflections making it possible to generate solutions on the various aspects mentioned in the DRC 2023 country risk report.

mediacongo


*Sounds like someone needs to "Enlighten" the Chairman / CEO of Bloomfield investment corporation, Stanislas Zeze on AVZ / Manono imo


Food for thought

Frank

Bloomfield appears to be the only African based 'rating agency', based in Ivory Coast. Fuck me, what an endorsement that must be. Go Sama, you're absolutely on fire

@Frank a range of emotions - first I , then , then then thought what a pile of

 

[Underwaterdark]

ICSID Website updated with the pending case details. (unsure if this has already been posted)

Pending Cases | ICSID

icsid.worldbank.org