AVZ Discussion 2022

[Winenut]

I agree Cruiser

It's way premature to be talking about tax implications

We dont even know exactly how any restuctured TIA will play out

Then we still have legals in the mix....ICC, ICSID

There's a long way to go before we know what the whole DRC, AVZ, AVZI, GLH, CATH, Zijin, Cominiere (CNTS) landscape looks like in relation to ownership and potential development of Manono

 

[Carlos Danger]

I agree Cruiser

It's way premature to be talking about tax implications

We dont even know exactly how any restuctured TIA will play out

Then we still have legals in the mix....ICC, ICSID

There's a long way to go before we know what the whole DRC, AVZ, AVZI, GLH, CATH, Zijin, Cominiere (CNTS) landscape looks like in relation to ownership and potential development of Manono

U still need to put that U in Ur flow chart imo

 

[Winenut]

U still need to put that U in Ur flow chart imo
View attachment 76034

I intend to buddy

But there are many permutations so it's all a bit of guesswork

I could come up with a myriad of outcomes (and I don't want to confuse the issue more by putting up multiple scenarios necessarily)

Dathomir's 15%???? (although I reckon Congs fucked)

What does the DRC want to hold in any final negoatiated outcome? (at the moment it should be a ceded 10% but who the fk knows)

Cominiere.....well they're still a completely loose cannon

What happens to Zijin?

What tenement do we actually end up with?

At the moment the flow simply shows the outcome based on accepting 75% good title (of which there is ongoing conjecture) Cominiere in it's original position at 25% before it went all fucking rogue and the ownership effects of the revised TIA recently announced regarding CATH and GLH replacing the original 24% TIA for CATH that was kicked down the road until now

Too much fun......for accountants

 

[Winenut]

and I have no idea how you got a camera into my office.....

 

[Rightyo]

I intend to buddy

But there are many permutations so it's all a bit of guesswork

I could come up with a myriad of outcomes (and I don't want to confuse the issue more by putting up multiple scenarios necessarily)

Dathomir's 15%???? (although I reckon Congs fucked)

What does the DRC want to hold in any final negoatiated outcome? (at the moment it should be a ceded 10% but who the fk knows)

Cominiere.....well they're still a completely loose cannon

What happens to Zijin?

What tenement do we actually end up with?

At the moment the flow simply shows the outcome based on accepting 75% good title (of which there is ongoing conjecture) Cominiere in it's original position at 25% before it went all fucking rogue and the ownership effects of the revised TIA recently announced regarding CATH and GLH replacing the original 24% TIA for CATH that was kicked down the road until now

Too much fun......for accountants

A CEO,, a MD and an accountant were sitting in an office with a hi net worth investor, the hi net worth investor asked 1 simple question to determin who he would invest with. the CEO he asked wat is one plus one, thats easy its 2. The MD was asked what dose 2 plus 2 equal, 4 said the MD. the accountant was asked what is 3 plus 3. the acountant stodd up pushed his chair back, walked over locked the office door shut the open window closed the blinds, turned off the office light, walked back to the hi net worth investor sat down beside him leaned in real close and wispered in his ear" what do u want it to equal

 

[Carlos Danger]

I intend to buddy

But there are many permutations so it's all a bit of guesswork

I could come up with a myriad of outcomes (and I don't want to confuse the issue more by putting up multiple scenarios necessarily)

Dathomir's 15%???? (although I reckon Congs fucked)

What does the DRC want to hold in any final negoatiated outcome? (at the moment it should be a ceded 10% but who the fk knows)

Cominiere.....well they're still a completely loose cannon

What happens to Zijin?

What tenement do we actually end up with?

At the moment the flow simply shows the outcome based on accepting 75% good title (of which there is ongoing conjecture) Cominiere in it's original position at 25% before it went all fucking rogue and the ownership effects of the revised TIA recently announced regarding CATH and GLH replacing the original 24% TIA for CATH that was kicked down the road until now

Too much fun......for accountants

There is zero reasonable conjecture on Dathomir's 15%

Or the minimum 10% that needs to go to the DRC government

The rest is up in the air imo

 

[Pokok]

Sorry guys I need some advice for a friend , his elderly mother in law passed before xmas and going over the paperwork he found she had a few shareholdings to which he sorted out , but she mentioned to him many time she held shares in coles and wesfarmers but can't find any holdings how can he find out about this as he cant find any statements .
Regards

 

[Winenut]

There is zero reasonable conjecture on Dathomir's 15%

Or the minimum 10% that needs to go to the DRC government

The rest is up in the air imo

View attachment 76038
View attachment 76039
View attachment 76040

I tend to agree with you on Cong (as I stated) and the 10% to the DRC (which should be ceded by Cominiere CNTS)

Will have to wait for more confirmation and details and announcements on the other moving parts

The whole thing is certainly a better prospect now than 2 weeks ago that's for sure

 

[Winenut]

Sorry guys I need some advice for a friend , his elderly mother in law passed before xmas and going over the paperwork he found she had a few shareholdings to which he sorted out , but she mentioned to him many time she held shares in coles and wesfarmers but can't find any holdings how can he find out about this as he cant find any statements .
Regards

Try and track down the broker that the elderly lady would have used

No-one of that era did anything in shares without a broker

I'll post some more tips

Absolutely been through it

 

[Winenut]

Sorry guys I need some advice for a friend , his elderly mother in law passed before xmas and going over the paperwork he found she had a few shareholdings to which he sorted out , but she mentioned to him many time she held shares in coles and wesfarmers but can't find any holdings how can he find out about this as he cant find any statements .
Regards

Might be worth checking what registry(s) handles matters for Coles and Wesfarmers

If you have the grant of probate etc you may be able to ask some questions of the registry

 

[Yaseen]

Im definitely not an accountant, but either way not sure why anyone is worrying, its a divedend and company continues and youll eventually be able to sell for a massive loss to offset the dividend, or the entire company is sold and you get your 50% off CGT, idk but this is the least of my worries

 

[Winenut]

Sorry guys I need some advice for a friend , his elderly mother in law passed before xmas and going over the paperwork he found she had a few shareholdings to which he sorted out , but she mentioned to him many time she held shares in coles and wesfarmers but can't find any holdings how can he find out about this as he cant find any statements .
Regards

You may be able to trackdown the broker if any documentation contains a PID

This is a link for the more common PID's of Australian Brokers and Authorised enitites

https://intercom.help/sharesies-au/en/articles/9006612-participant-identification-number-pid

Identifying the broker may be important because potentially there may be other shareholdings that maybe weren't mentioned but do exist

 

[DiscoDanNZ]

I hope they relist and allow shareholders to choose if they wish to sell or hold depending on their situation.

Actual footage of us all checking the open if that happens:

The reality is that there will be a shit tonne of uninformed or desperate holders that were trapped by this and will run for the door at 10am should that day come.

 

[Winenut]

Sorry guys I need some advice for a friend , his elderly mother in law passed before xmas and going over the paperwork he found she had a few shareholdings to which he sorted out , but she mentioned to him many time she held shares in coles and wesfarmers but can't find any holdings how can he find out about this as he cant find any statements .
Regards

Check banks accounts if they are available

If shares were held in Wesfarmers and Coles you can interrogate the dividends paid which will appear in the bank account

Very easy to check dividend payment dates online for the companies in question

Receipt of dividends identified in a bank statement would be clear evidence that a shareholding exists

Here's the recent dividend payment dates highlighted for Coles and Wesfarmers

 

[Pokok]

Check banks accounts if they are available

If shares were held in Wesfarmers and Coles you can interrogate the dividends paid which will appear in the bank account

Very easy to check dividend payment dates online for the companies in question

Receipt of dividends identified in a bank statement would be clear evidence that a shareholding exists

Thanks mate I will send him the info when this is over we will catch up for a drink or 10

 

[Carlos Danger]

Sorry guys I need some advice for a friend , his elderly mother in law passed before xmas and going over the paperwork he found she had a few shareholdings to which he sorted out , but she mentioned to him many time she held shares in coles and wesfarmers but can't find any holdings how can he find out about this as he cant find any statements .
Regards

Check banks accounts if they are available

If shares were held in Wesfarmers and Coles you can interrogate the dividends paid which will appear in the bank account

Very easy to check dividend payment dates online for the companies in question

Receipt of dividends identified in a bank statement would be clear evidence that a shareholding exists

Here's the recent dividend payment dates highlighted for Coles and Wesfarmers

View attachment 76044

View attachment 76045

ATO / her accountant is another idea

They might have a record of a recent tax return listing at least some of the holdings if she was claiming franking credit refunds on them

 

[Pig]

Im definitely not an accountant, but either way not sure why anyone is worrying, its a divedend and company continues and youll eventually be able to sell for a massive loss to offset the dividend, or the entire company is sold and you get your 50% off CGT, idk but this is the least of my worries

You do realise that you need capital gains to offset the capital losses. Without the gains, the losses just get carried forward. So I’d suggest it would be worth worrying about. Not that anyone should necessarily be worrying about it at this stage.

 

[Frank]

x.com

x.com

 

[BEISHA]

Sorry here is the full post

Guys,
There is nothing in the announcement which suggests AVZ has dropped the litigation because of negotiations with the DRC. What was stated is that AVZ has a revised JV and new funding arrangement with CATH and no longer needs to draw upon the Locke Litigation funding facility.

Lets not forget who is funding and running the DRC's legal process. The corrupt Zijin Mining Group and its lawyers who have been collaboratively working with Cominiere. This bunch of criminals don't get a seat at the negotiation table with CATH, AVZ and the DRC Govt.

The restructured partnership with CATH is the window for the DRC to accelerate the development of the Manono project as well as validate AVZ's legal claims and strategy. The DRC wants to build the Mine and get this into production in 2026. This new arrangement is the only way of achieving this. The Litigation process will delay this indefinitely and be enormously costly to the DRC along with the ongoing demise in their reputation.

Also, to cancel the Arbitration process would be to allow Cominiere and the DRC to walk away without any penalties being imposed. At the very least the $Millions they owe us should be an integral part of any negotiation up and until the final date (target date Feb 7) by which the fees are required to be paid for the ICSID Tribunal hearing, scheduled for June.

The Pre completion funding agreement stipulates the Drawdowns are scheduled by end of January. This is for the Litigation process. AVZ and CATH are committed to moving forward with this process if this is needed to get action to take place. The completion of the drawdowns is scheduled in December 2026 as part of the funding agreement. This is firmly stated. There is no compromise on this strategy.
So the fines which have been increasing each day on the DRC, and now amount to in excess of $70M are not going to be waived.
The DRC needs to get its act together swiftly before the end of January and advance the negotiations to grant the Mining Licence to Dathcom (AVZi) now or risk it all at the ICSID Arbitration hearing. It is the only way the Manono Project (area covered by PR 13359) is going to get off the ground and be operational before 2027. Zijin will definitely not be part of this outcome.

I believe

Interesting post on hotcrapper, surprised no one picked it up.
ZIJIN OUT ?
I tend to agree with Carlos that 13359 will be split so that Zijin can mine the northern portion but you never know the DRC may cancel the illegal mining licence given to Manono Lithium in favor of a battery hub.

Amovatio​

155 Posts.
1,675
Date:14/01/25Time:13:49:36Post #:77398366

No disrespect Whales, but most of the posters who came to TSE either wanted to get away from that shit hole HC for their mental sanity and / or were permanently banned........so not many are really going to re vist the place, hence why nobody has picked up what Amovatio had posted.

That being said ,i am glad you shared the post here cause in my opinion, he / she is spot on the money.

I believe this restructured agreement with Cath / AVZ will be the only ticket in town regards to developing Manono, I really dont believe Zijin will be part of the equation..........period.

Very powerful statement above !

The key take aways within this second statement for me.......

Enticing !

of course !

Read that statement over and over again.........third party consents including PROC , fascinating, what could that mean i wonder ?...

Chinese Govt approval ?........nudge nudge wink wink, pull your head in Zijin and tow the party line maybe ? Cong fuck off

Prohibited parties...........you mean Zijin / dathomir / Cominiere ?


Yeah, i think this restructure proposal is genius , it benefits the DRC in so many ways if they had a brain, a way forward to fulfill the battery hub dream just in time for the next lithium boom, a chance to avoid embarrassing arbitration decision that will only go one way , be extremely costly and damaging geo politically plus finally it would provide jobs for the locals and boost the coffers exponentially.......all in one nice restructured package CATH / AVZ

Yes, as i mentioned before AVZ hold all the cards and are in control ( as it should be )

Finally, i mentioned this before and wont mention it again........arbitration fees have been paid, there is no foot off the throttle!

How do i know ?

You know the drill.

 

[BEISHA]

90 days from November 7th is February 5th not February 7th

The 'hearing' in June at the ICSID is the initial hearing and won't be anywhere near the final outcome

Nigel himself said this process won't be wrapped up until end of 2026 or even possibly 2027 so if the DRC government want this in production by 2026 then a deal has to be struck or we will all be still in the same situation for at least the next 2 years

Zijin will launch arbitration against the DRC government if they are excluded and they would win the case

Therefore the only way this all moves forward imminently and the mine is operational before 2027 is with Green Lithium Holdings in the south and Manono Lithium in the north imo

Zijin will launch arbitration against the DRC government if they are excluded and they would win the case

You mean two wrongs make a right do you ?

Zijin / DRC arbitration would be the biggest clown show on earth.

The chinese like to save face.

And i am sure the relationship would suffer immeasurably to the point Zijin current and future operations in the DRC could suffer some large setbacks as a result.

Worth it ?

I think not.