BRN Discussion Ongoing

[JDelekto]

PC motherboards, these days, tend to have more than 1 M.2 slot. One is for the main OS drive and the other can be used as storage and sometimes to even connect a wifi card etc. I wonder if the AKIDA M.2 would work in one of these onboard slots?

Depending upon how the slot is keyed (and in some cases configured in the BIOS), the Akida M.2 device is designed to work in these slots. The keying determines where the notch is cut in the board to fit in the slot. The motherboard manual should give you the specifics for each of the slots.

The M.2 is a specification for the slot interface, and it's important to note that some M.2 slots can take both NVMe and SATA devices (like solid-state drives). On a side note, if given a choice between an NVMe or SATA solid-state drive that will fit in an M.2 slot, go for the NVMe drive as they are significantly faster.

Now NVMe and SATA are specific protocols. NVMe uses four PCIe lanes, and SATA uses a single lane. According to BrainChip's specifications for the NVMe device, it only uses 2 lanes. That being said, I don't think it would work exactly like a NVMe or SATA drive and thus requires a custom driver:

Also, when you see numbers associated with the devices, like 2230, 2260, and 2280 (the Akida is 2260), those numbers usually indicate the width and length, respectively, in millimeters of the board.

As long as you are using Ubuntu Linux with BrainChip's PCIe driver, you should be able to use one of the M.2 slots on the motherboard.

 

[Diogenese]

This looks tempting, but my only concern would be whether or not the driver would interface with it. Currently, BrainChip only supports drivers for Linux (with the Ubuntu distribution being officially supported).

I am concerned that BrainChip's Linux driver would not work with the USB-C enclosure which will treat the device like an NVMe SSD instead of the specialized hardware.

Hi JD,

I see you've looked at this in depth back in May 2022:

• #13

I sent an e-mail to support and inquired if they had a driver for Windows, but unfortunately, they only provide PCIe drivers for Ubuntu 18.04 and 20.06.

That's why one of my future goals is to see if I could analyze the source for the Linux PCIe driver (which BrainChip does make available on GitHub) and see if I can create a driver for Windows as well.

I'm not sure if there is some type of "shim" that needs to be written to use this with Python, but that may have to be done as well. However, with a driver, I see no reason why the Akida board couldn't be used with Windows as well.

Looks like they read your post:

https://doc.brainchipinc.com/
Inspired by the Keras API, MetaTF provides a high-level Python API for neural networks. This API facilitates early evaluation, design, final tuning, and productization of neural network models.

PS:
MetaTF:
https://doc.brainchipinc.com/installation.html

Installation​

Supported configurations​

• Operating systems:
  • Windows 10, Windows 11
  • Any Linux variant compatible with manylinux 2.28 (Ubuntu 20.04, Ubuntu 22.04, …)
• Python versions: 3.9 to 3.11
• TensorFlow versions: 2.15

 

[DingoBorat]

I Love this story, read it a long time ago, it relates to me, how those who may consider themselves "open minded" are actually trapped within the restraints placed upon their mind's through the lessons of "education" and what they are "told" is Fact or Fiction, without the breadth of Knowledge, to determine for themselves, what is possible.


The Elephant Rope (Belief)

A gentleman was walking through an elephant camp, and he spotted that the elephants weren’t being kept in cages or held by the use of chains.

All that was holding them back from escaping the camp, was a small piece of rope tied to one of their legs.

As the man gazed upon the elephants, he was completely confused as to why the elephants didn’t just use their strength to break the rope and escape the camp. They could easily have done so, but instead, they didn’t try to at all.

Curious and wanting to know the answer, he asked a trainer nearby why the elephants were just standing there and never tried to escape.

The trainer replied;
“when they are very young and much smaller we use the same size rope to tie them and, at that age, it’s enough to hold them. As they grow up, they are conditioned to believe they cannot break away. They believe the rope can still hold them, so they never try to break free.”

The only reason that the elephants weren’t breaking free and escaping from the camp was that over time they adopted the belief that it just wasn’t possible.


Another story I Love about elephants, is the one about the sleeping elephant, that tramples everything, when it awakes.

That's BrainChip!

 

[JDelekto]

Hi JD,

I see you've looked at this in depth back in May 2022:

• #13

I sent an e-mail to support and inquired if they had a driver for Windows, but unfortunately, they only provide PCIe drivers for Ubuntu 18.04 and 20.06.

That's why one of my future goals is to see if I could analyze the source for the Linux PCIe driver (which BrainChip does make available on GitHub) and see if I can create a driver for Windows as well.

I'm not sure if there is some type of "shim" that needs to be written to use this with Python, but that may have to be done as well. However, with a driver, I see no reason why the Akida board couldn't be used with Windows as well.

Looks like they read your post:

https://doc.brainchipinc.com/
Inspired by the Keras API, MetaTF provides a high-level Python API for neural networks. This API facilitates early evaluation, design, final tuning, and productization of neural network models.

PS:
MetaTF:
https://doc.brainchipinc.com/installation.html

Installation​

Supported configurations​

• Operating systems:
  • Windows 10, Windows 11
  • Any Linux variant compatible with manylinux 2.28 (Ubuntu 20.04, Ubuntu 22.04, …)
• Python versions: 3.9 to 3.11
• TensorFlow versions: 2.15

I need to contact one of their support engineers inquiring about hardware support. The MetaTF package that can be installed on Windows and used on Windows has an Akida IP simulator, but I don't believe it will work with the physical hardware.

When I recently ordered the M.2 device and was contacted to choose which Key I wanted (they didn't have it as a selection on the order form), I asked if they had any other documentation I could use since I wanted to work on a Windows driver. I got the following response:

Our platform runs on Linux, ubuntu. It hasn’t been qualified on Windows platforms.
All the information you need to get up and running can be found on our MetaTF site.

I'm not quite sure what they mean by "qualified" (maybe they now have a Windows driver, but it is not Microsoft WHQL certified?) but I understood it couldn't currently be used on Windows. The GitHub repo only has the source for the PCIe driver to be compiled on Ubuntu.

I know that I had originally installed Windows 10 on my shuttle PC when I purchased the PCIe card, and it wouldn't even detect the hardware nor try to install any drivers. After adding a new SSD and installing Ubuntu, I successfully ran their scripts to install the kernel driver and use the tools to detect and test the Akida PCIe card.

Ultimately I want to be able to use the hardware on Windows operating systems, not the simulator that comes with MetaTF.

 

[Diogenese]

I need to send an e-mail to one of their actual Engineers regarding hardware support. The MetaTF package that can be installed on Windows and used on Windows has an Akida IP simulator, but I don't believe it will work with the physical hardware.

When I recently ordered the M.2 device and was contacted to choose which Key I wanted (they didn't have it as a selection on the order form), I asked if they had any other documentation I could use since I wanted to work on a Windows driver. I got the following response:

Our platform runs on Linux, ubuntu. It hasn’t been qualified on Windows platforms.
All the information you need to get up and running can be found on our MetaTF site.

I'm not quite sure what they mean by "qualified" (maybe they now have a Windows driver, but it is not Microsoft WHQL certified?) but I understood it couldn't currently be used on Windows. I know that I had originally installed Windows 10 on my shuttle PC when I purchased the PCIe card, and it wouldn't even detect the hardware nor try to install any drivers. After adding a new SSD and installing Ubuntu, I successfully ran their scripts to install the kernel driver and use the tools to detect and test the Akida PCIe card.

Ultimately I want to be able to use the hardware on Windows operating systems, not the simulator that comes with MetaTF.

All above my paygrade, but here is the low down on WHQL:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000093158/graphics.html

There are two types of drivers listed on the Download Center: drivers with and without a WHQL Certification. What are the differences between the two?
Resolution
Drivers labeled as WHQL Certified have been thoroughly tested by Intel, have passed Windows Hardware Lab Kit testing on various platforms and configurations, and are signed by Microsoft as compatible with Windows* operating systems.
Drivers that do not have WHQL Certification are also thoroughly tested by Intel, are of the same functional quality as WHQL Certified drivers, and are signed by Microsoft. The key difference is that Non-WHQL drivers have not completed the full Windows Hardware Lab Kit testing prior to release. This is known as an attest-signed driver.

... but this may only apply to things available from the Intel download centre.

But there is a requirement for the latest Visual C++ redistributable package when using Windows:

https://doc.brainchipinc.com/installation.html

Using Windows, the latest Visual C++ redistributable package is required. Please refer to this link for installation.

available from MS:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/cpp/windows/latest-supported-vc-redist?view=msvc-170

 

[JDelekto]

All above my paygrade, but here is the low down on WHQL:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000093158/graphics.html

There are two types of drivers listed on the Download Center: drivers with and without a WHQL Certification. What are the differences between the two?
Resolution
Drivers labeled as WHQL Certified have been thoroughly tested by Intel, have passed Windows Hardware Lab Kit testing on various platforms and configurations, and are signed by Microsoft as compatible with Windows* operating systems.
Drivers that do not have WHQL Certification are also thoroughly tested by Intel, are of the same functional quality as WHQL Certified drivers, and are signed by Microsoft. The key difference is that Non-WHQL drivers have not completed the full Windows Hardware Lab Kit testing prior to release. This is known as an attest-signed driver.

... but this may only apply to things available from the Intel download centre.

They did not include a Windows driver (signed or not) in the SDK for the PCIe card, and one was not detected and installed after I had installed the card and booted Windows.

When I get the M.2 card, I'll try installing it on the shuttle PC and setting up a new Windows 11 SSD to see if it will detect it. To run this on Windows, I think I will need to finish porting the PCIe driver, then probably also port their C++ library to use low-level Windows APIs to communicate with the driver.

When that is done, a wrapper for their Engine can be used with other higher-level languages. While I understand the idea is to target Edge devices for Akida, I would still like to work with a more familiar development environment.

Of course, maybe they'll read this message and have someone work on it internally.

 

[Diogenese]

They did not include a Windows driver (signed or not) in the SDK for the PCIe card, and one was not detected and installed after I had installed the card and booted Windows.

When I get the M.2 card, I'll try installing it on the shuttle PC and setting up a new Windows 11 SSD to see if it will detect it. To run this on Windows, I think I will need to finish porting the PCIe driver, then probably also port their C++ library to use low-level Windows APIs to communicate with the driver.

When that is done, a wrapper for their Engine can be used with other higher-level languages. While I understand the idea is to target Edge devices for Akida, I would still like to work with a more familiar development environment.

Of course, maybe they'll read this message and have someone work on it internally.

Maybe the Windows compatibility is new with M2. Let us know when you get the M2.

What the world needs is a plug-and-play Akida cybersecurity USB stick, which is here the M2 comes in with, for example:

https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop...o-m-2-nvme-and-sata-enclosure-10gbps-cocmnv01

Comsol USB-C to M.2 NVME and SATA Enclosure 10Gbps​

mentioned above.

 

[JDelekto]

Maybe the Windows compatibility is new with M2. Let us know when you get the M2.

What the world needs is a plug-and-play Akida cybersecurity USB stick, which is here the M2 comes in with, for example:

https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop...o-m-2-nvme-and-sata-enclosure-10gbps-cocmnv01

Comsol USB-C to M.2 NVME and SATA Enclosure 10Gbps​

mentioned above.

I'll send an update once I get the new M.2 device to play with.

Something interesting though on the MetaTF document page... according to the image of the AKD1000 reference chip, it notes both the PCIe and USB 3.0 interfaces. It explains why they used this chip with the dedicated PCIe card and the M.2 form factor, however, the fact that it has a USB 3.0 interface makes me wonder why they didn't provide Akida with a USB stick. I think they intended to at one point --just not sure what happened to that effort.

 

[manny100]

The M.2 card and the Edge box with its new eco system are for developers who will find end products/users or develop at the request of an end user.
I assume that our sales staff seek out potential end users and encourage them to develop. Same with PICO?
The new cyber security product developed by Quantum Ventura and Lockheed Martin- is that available for commercial sale now? Or is it still a work in progress?

 

[IloveLamp]

Elon Musk Reportedly Emerges As a Potential Intel Buyer, Involving Qualcomm & Global Foundries In This Blockbuster Deal

It's a wild rumor, but Elon Musk could play a part in Intel's acquisition, as the report by SemiAccurate has mentioned him as a buyer.

wccftech-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Smoothsailing]

I'll send an update once I get the new M.2 device to play with.

Something interesting though on the MetaTF document page... according to the image of the AKD1000 reference chip, it notes both the PCIe and USB 3.0 interfaces. It explains why they used this chip with the dedicated PCIe card and the M.2 form factor, however, the fact that it has a USB 3.0 interface makes me wonder why they didn't provide Akida with a USB stick. I think they intended to at one point --just not sure what happened to that effort.

Come on Brainchip bring out a USB stick we all want one or two

 

[keyeat]

Following on from this post, I think that management has fumbled the ball here.

We were blessed with a 'press release' in May 2023 confirming that Brainchip and Quantum Ventura were partnering to develop the CyberNeuroRT offering.

I can understand why this was not an ASX announcement at the time, although, they wouldn't have been the first company to release this sort of news as non-price sensitive had they chosen to do so.

Fast forward to todays' press release, it seems to me that akida has been officially and successfully integrated into the CyberNeuro RT offering. It also appears that the offering is commercially available.

Management seems gunshy to release anything for fear of the ASX compliance team and it is quickly hamstringing the accretion of the company's value.

We're told there's NDA, customers don't want to give up their secret sauce, blah blah blah, but we're talking about a company that was happy to be publicly released as a partner and shows one of our boards as part of their solution on their own website.

I can't see how they couldn't have dressed this up with some lipstick and walked it into the ASX office for a non-price sensitive announcement at minimum.

Edit: The annoying part about today’s press release is they say “today announced” and then refer to the “previously announced partnership”

It wasn’t previously announced and the integration also hasn’t been announced. In my mind, press releases do not count as an 'announcement' because the only people that read them are the people already invested or closely following the company. The fact they're still using the word 'announce' despite not having announced anything really bugs me. End rant.

Email Tony

 

[Humble Genius]

Sort of similar to Martin Luther King, last night I had a dream. It was the most amazing dream and had nothing to do with morning wood.
There was an announcement by Brainchip that they would pay out a one off special dividend of 50 cents per share. Management stated that this dividend was a special thank you to all their loyal shareholders who held through all of the ups and downs over the last half dozen years and was the prelude to forthcoming explosive growth....

I then woke up and realised I needed to start getting ready to go to work

 

[7für7]

Sort of similar to Martin Luther King, last night I had a dream. It was the most amazing dream and had nothing to do with morning wood.
There was an announcement by Brainchip that they would pay out a one off special dividend of 50 cents per share. Management stated that this dividend was a special thank you to all their loyal shareholders who held through all of the ups and downs over the last half dozen years and was the prelude to forthcoming explosive growth....

I then woke up and realised I needed to start getting ready to go to work

Hallelujah

 

[Dougie54]

Cockroaches are back

They never went,they were just hiding in the dark ready to come out and feed.

 

[SERA2g]

Email Tony

I'm sure one of the many shareholders already has.

When it comes to asx announcements, the team have a position internally and arguing otherwise would be like trying to get blood from a stone.

They won't be able to not announce the Nvidia takeover offer so we continue to wait.

 

[7für7]

This AI company specializes in autonomous driving and vehicle safety. They partnered recently with Honda for their new lineup Honda 0. I find some of their applications interesting because Akida could make them even more efficient and faster. Many people don’t understand that BrainChip doesn’t always have to be seen as a competitor but rather as a tool to make their own systems smarter and more efficient. As with many other AI companies, I see enormous potential here as well.

Full-stack AI and AI-based simulation for ADAS and L4 autonomous driving development | Helm.ai

Explore Helm.ai's AI software for high-end ADAS through Level 4 autonomous vehicles. Helm.ai offers a full suite of full-stack AI software, foundation models, and generative AI development and validation tools for production-bound projects.

helm.ai

Honda 0 Series｜Honda Motor Co.,Ltd.

Website for the new global EV "Honda 0 Series".

0.honda

 

[keyeat]

I'm sure one of the many shareholders already has.

When it comes to asx announcements, the team have a position internally and arguing otherwise would be like trying to get blood from a stone.

They won't be able to not announce the Nvidia takeover offer so we continue to wait.

 

[SERA2g]

View attachment 76366

So there's no confusion and to avoid Tony receiving 100s of emails, let's all collectively leave it with @keyeat to make contact.

Over to you mate

 

[Fullmoonfever]

Tried something diff out of curiosity and had a look to see if anyone linking into the BRN domain.

Not much to see, usual stuff, other than 2 individuals who took the time to link to their personal external domain.

Couple snips of who they are and obviously in the "field / industry".

Doesn't mean much as being done on individual time / reason, but at least know of BRN I guess.