BRN Discussion Ongoing

[Pom down under]

What's the chances today?

 

[Justchilln]

Hey Gang!

I've been thinking about the new Renesas 22nm RA-family chips which is expected to be launched towards the end of the year. This chip is an extension to the RA family of 32-bit Arm® Cortex®-M microcontrollers and is the one that is supposed to include our amazing technology.

Anyway I was thinking about the question of revenue based on mass volume and trying to work it form various angles to try and get a gauge on what we could expect to see coming into the coffers in the near future.

So we know from our website that a 28nm chip costs $15 for mass volumes (see below). And I'm presuming 22nm might be a little more expensive, let's say $20 a chip??

View attachment 51759



As for the term "mass volumes", what does that look like from a quantity perspective? I am pretty sure I remember Sean saying after the last AGM that total chip production costs on mass volumes are really high, into the tens of millions of dollars. I think he may have said up to $50 million dollars.

Sooo, based on this remedial information Renesas must be pretty confident they can sell enough chips to cover their costs and make a decent profit - which is a lot of chips when you think about it.

All IMO. DYOR.


View attachment 51758

Hi Bravo
Where did you find that pricing for the akida chip? Is it live on the company website now?
I’ve never seen that before

 

[Perhaps]

Hi Bravo
Where did you find that pricing for the akida chip? Is it live on the company website now?
I’ve never seen that before

Renesas has an IP licence and will pay royalties, when the IP is used in commercial products. Who cares about a price for an Akida chip, it just doesn't matter.

 

[AARONASX]

Hi Bravo
Where did you find that pricing for the akida chip? Is it live on the company website now?
I’ve never seen that before

Hi Mate,

scroll to the bottom

BrainChip aims to cash in on industrial automation with neuromorphic chip Akida

Brainchip is bringing artificial intelligence to the edge in a way that is beyond the capabilities of other products Oct 12, 2020

brainchip.com

 

[David holland]

Renesas has an IP licence and will pay royalties, when the IP is used in commercial products. Who cares about a price for an Akida chip, it just doesn't matter.

Like I've asked before ,what range in value potentially can a IP Licence be worth in royalties ?

 

[Perhaps]

Like I've asked before ,what range in value potentially can a IP Licence be worth in royalties ?

Price range for Renesas MCUs in lower volumes is roughly between € 5-15 per piece, much lower in higher volumes. When the IP will be used at the lower end, as announced by Renesas, royalties per piece are possibly in the 10-20 cent range. The IP business needs large volumes for real money.
This example is meant for the simple 2 nodes licence of Renesas. When the full licence is in use, royalties in the range € 5-10 per piece might be possible. At the end it's a matter of the contracts, so this is the estimated possible range.

 

[Schnitzel lover]

Hey Gang!

I've been thinking about the new Renesas 22nm RA-family chips which is expected to be launched towards the end of the year. This chip is an extension to the RA family of 32-bit Arm® Cortex®-M microcontrollers and is the one that is supposed to include our amazing technology.

Anyway I was thinking about the question of revenue based on mass volume and trying to work it form various angles to try and get a gauge on what we could expect to see coming into the coffers in the near future.

So we know from our website that a 28nm chip costs $15 for mass volumes (see below). And I'm presuming 22nm might be a little more expensive, let's say $20 a chip??

View attachment 51759



As for the term "mass volumes", what does that look like from a quantity perspective? I am pretty sure I remember Sean saying after the last AGM that total chip production costs on mass volumes are really high, into the tens of millions of dollars. I think he may have said up to $50 million dollars.

Sooo, based on this remedial information Renesas must be pretty confident they can sell enough chips to cover their costs and make a decent profit - which is a lot of chips when you think about it.

All IMO. DYOR.


View attachment 51758

ARM in everything with about $2.7billion earnings..

If Akida in 1% $27mill earnings..

Likely though if they get in 1%, they’ll quickly get to 10% or $270mill equivalent..

If the industry is growing at 30-40% CAGR, it still shows that if Brainchip gets some market penetration, then $27-35mill revenue could be around the corner in the next 12-18months..

That would definitely put a rocket under BRN.AX

 

[Schnitzel lover]

 

[Justchilln]

Renesas has an IP licence and will pay royalties, when the IP is used in commercial products. Who cares about a price for an Akida chip, it just doesn't matter.

Thanks mate you really seem to know your stuff

 

[David holland]

Price range for Renesas MCUs in lower volumes is roughly between € 5-15 per piece, much lower in higher volumes. When the IP will be used at the lower end, as announced by Renesas, royalties per piece are possibly in the 10-20 cent range. The IP business needs large volumes for real money.
This example is meant for the simple 2 nodes licence of Renesas. When the full licence is in use, royalties in the range € 5-10 per piece might be possible. At the end it's a matter of the contracts, so this is the estimated possible range.

So in theory possibly anywhere in between 50 million to 1 billion dollars in numerous products per IP licence

 

[Perhaps]

Thanks mate you really seem to know your stuff

The IP business must be a real strange animal for some. Try a research on usual royalties paid in the semiconductor business, maybe it helps.

 

[Justchilln]

The IP business must be a real strange animal for some. Try a research on usual royalties paid in the semiconductor business, maybe it helps.

I am well aware of the companies business model…….but thanks for trying

 

[Xray1]

Hi Dio,

thanks for the reply.

It is interesting. Is there a teeny weeny tiny minute minuscule atoms chance you could be wrong about our inclusion.........?

Sorry to question, it's just i fail to see why our logo would be displayed front and centre at a renesas / moschip display that is demonstrating the rz/v2m unless we were involved in some way?

I have also posted numerous LinkedIn likes etc from brn staff on this particular renesas chipset.

I can't help but feel we are missing something.

No ..... Dio, thought he was wrong once before, but then he realised that he was mistaken .. !!! ..

 

[Xray1]

Let's face it, ...... with all this unsubstantiated dot joining going on here for some time now, is the fact that we will never truely know where Akida 2.0 (E, S, P) or Akida 3.0 etc etc will end up at or in ....... we can only go by what is released/disclosed in the financials as ststed by Sean H ...........let's face it, that no company big or small in their right mind would or will want to disclose openly to the market and their competitors that Akida is their so called " Secret Sauce ".

 

[David holland]

Let's face it, ...... with all this unsubstantiated dot joining going on here for some time now, is the fact that we will never truely know where Akida 2.0 (E, S, P) or Akida 3.0 etc etc will end up at or in ....... we can only go by what is released/disclosed in the financials as ststed by Sean H ...........let's face it, that no company big or small in their right mind would or will want to disclose openly to the market and their competitors that Akida is their so called " Secret Sauce ".

The silence can only go for so long, all the dot joining , high number of companies engaging with us ,something has to surface thru I.P Sales, we have a world class line up and a product ahead of the game, So May nxt yr when the AGM is on I hope we have at least another 2 IP Contracts and revenue thru our existing I.P contracts or the company hasn't reached milestones or expectations, Has the CEO Signed off on a IP Contract yet ?

 

[DK6161]

Let's face it, ...... with all this unsubstantiated dot joining going on here for some time now, is the fact that we will never truely know where Akida 2.0 (E, S, P) or Akida 3.0 etc etc will end up at or in ....... we can only go by what is released/disclosed in the financials as ststed by Sean H ...........let's face it, that no company big or small in their right mind would or will want to disclose openly to the market and their competitors that Akida is their so called " Secret Sauce ".

I don't get this. Some camps (including those that have been pestering people on social media) are promoting and trying to force companies to admit they are using Akida, whereas those that are using Akida are trying their hardest to keep their "secret sauce".
How's that impacting our relationship with our customers?
Also assuming everything with AI/ML/edge computing uses Akida is plain annoying and embarrassing. Just stop please.

 

[Moonshot]

I don't get this. Some camps (including those that have been pestering people on social media) are promoting and trying to force companies to admit they are using Akida, whereas those that are using Akida are trying their hardest to keep their "secret sauce".
How's that impacting our relationship with our customers?
Also assuming everything with AI/ML/edge computing uses Akida is plain annoying and embarrassing. Just stop please.

Agree, it’s not good. On the open neuromorphic discord akida spam on their linked in posts is a running joke.

 

[ndefries]

I don't get this. Some camps (including those that have been pestering people on social media) are promoting and trying to force companies to admit they are using Akida, whereas those that are using Akida are trying their hardest to keep their "secret sauce".
How's that impacting our relationship with our customers?
Also assuming everything with AI/ML/edge computing uses Akida is plain annoying and embarrassing. Just stop please.

Exactly - I'm over it so much. Chapman et al I urge you to get off linkedin with fake job titles and leave these people be. Just wait for announcements that will come. it's one thing to share dots here but it's probably a fair assumption that the pestering has caused some to dislike the company and it's not ok.

 

[Xray1]

For those that may be interested about the Brainchip & ANT61 relationship:

ANT61’s Post​

ANT61
839 followers
2w

Great to hear that Optimus spacecraft with our space robotic payload has passed an important flight qualification milestone! Looking forward to the launch early next year!

 

[Bravo]

It's very well possible that they were running some combined demonstration using the one-shot learning capability of Akida.

While they may have been inferencing with the Renesas hardware, they could have used Akida to learn new facial expressions or recognize new faces for those visiting/revisiting the booth.

BrainChip's past exhibits that show this feature are compelling when showing how their hardware can do Edge learning without retraining the model.

Hi @JDelekto,

Great point! And to add weight to that, the video that they were looking at in the booth looks very similar to the Moschip & AKIDA video from May 22 in which they demonstrate one-shot learning.

Here's a screen shot of the demo video at 2.35 mins.

Here's the shot taken at the booth showing emotion recognition (ie. surprise).

MosChip & Akida Demo​

YouTube·Moschip Technology·10 May 2022