BRN Discussion Ongoing

[Stable Genius]

I really respect your views but still in Valeo and brn chip case a royality of 2.5% at this time is too high.
Reason for the same is brainchip is a startup and does not have too much bargaining power. On the other hand Valeo is more established as compared to brn.
Yes in the future a start up may agree to pay that much royality when brainchip is an established player.
The other reason is I don't want to over exaggerate the situation. To me the same may be over hype.
But again those are my personal opinions. You can prove me wrong by quoting a real life example than a paper.
Thanks

Hi @rgupta

I also don’t want to overstate the revenue and lead to disappointment.

Reality is that no one knows until it comes through and even then it won’t be itemised.

All I can say with confidence is that they are a global powerhouse whom are our trusted partner.

It’ll be great to finally have it confirmed we are in their product/s and receive significant revenue!

 

[Diogenese]

Hi @rgupta

I’m hoping it’s more than 2.5% to be honest. If their product doesn’t work without us then their revenue becomes zero.

Whoever does the contract negotiations (Rob T) is vital. A small percent off can make a massive difference over the life of the agreement.

Hopefully as a partnership we have managed to achieve more in which case we will become a going concern very quickly when revenue kicks in!

The Valeo deal is a joint development, where normally remuneration is based on sales, each party's share being calculated based on their contribution.

From the technical aspect, Akida has made a major contribution, but unfortunately it is more likely the contribution is measured in terms of dollars and euros. The power saving provides the auto makers with a strong selling point in addressing range anxiety.

However, we need to remember we were not negotiating from a position of strength in 2020. Our finances were not the best because we did not have any customers.

As our friends at MF constantly remind us, our R&D spend is miniscule compared with the big boys, but we could expect a lot better than 2.5%. Again, I assume that figure is just cited to show the bottom end of what we could expect.

PS: For those who bought in on the Valeo news, there is little to complain about.


https://smallcaps.com.au/brainchip-joint-development-agreement-akida-neuromorphic-chip-valeo/

BrainChip signs joint development agreement for Akida neuromorphic chip with Valeo​

By George Tchetvertakov -
June 9, 2020

Artificial intelligence device company BrainChip Holdings (ASX: BRN) has taken an affirmative step towards integrating its Akida neuromorphic chip into autonomous vehicles after signing a binding joint development agreement with European automotive supplier Valeo Corporation.

The agreement means both companies will collaborate to develop a new wave of tech solutions based on artificial intelligence (AI) and reduced power consumption within the overarching theme of miniaturisation that’s taking the tech industry by storm.

...

In a statement to the market this morning, BrainChip said Valeo will utilise Akida and collaborate on the development of neural network processing solutions, for integration in autonomous vehicles (AVs).

The terms of the deal stipulate that both companies must reach specific performance milestones, with BrainChip stating it expects to receive payments to cover its expenses, subject to the completion of, as yet, undisclosed milestones.

Neuromorphic engineering was first developed by US scientist Carver Mead in the 1980s and refers to the use of very-large-scale integration (VLSI) systems containing electronic analogue circuits to mimic neuro-biological architectures present in the nervous system.

According to BrainChip, by combining the Akida neural network processor with sensors, the resulting system can achieve ultra-low power, minimum latency, maximum reliability and incremental learning.

“This is a major advancement over current architectures which require large amounts of data to be transmitted to a CPU or GPU, which has the burden of processing all data from all sensors and then combining the results to make a decision or retrain the network for new classifiers,” the company said.

Today’s news pushed BrainChip shares up by 36% to $0.12 per share in morning trade.

 

[chapman89]

I really respect your views but still in Valeo and brn chip case a royality of 2.5% at this time is too high.
Reason for the same is brainchip is a startup and does not have too much bargaining power. On the other hand Valeo is more established as compared to brn.
Yes in the future a start up may agree to pay that much royality when brainchip is an established player.
The other reason is I don't want to over exaggerate the situation. To me the same may be over hype.
But again those are my personal opinions. You can prove me wrong by quoting a real life example than a paper.
Thanks

Brainchip has everything to bargain with.
It’s their IP and their technology which is “revolutionising the automotive industry”
Take away Brainchip and you’ve got power hungry expensive GPU’s running through software.

We likely won’t ever find out the royalty, but what does seem sure and certain is akida will be featuring in Valeos SCALA3.

Valeo has taken $1 billion euros in Pre Orders already, which is $1.6/7 billion AUD, can we get let’s say 4%? That’s $60-$70 million AUD, and we’ve got to remember, that revenue will continue to grow month on month as more cars are being made, and YoY it will be even more as more cars adopt SCALA3 and it eventually becomes industry standard….and that’s just Valeo.
Valeo supply 1/3 of all sensors to the automotive industry.
Stellantis has also said they will use Valeos SCALA3.

Stellantis to use Valeo lidar for Level 3 self-driving cars from 2024

Stellantis' first generation of 'hands-free, eyes-off' self-driving cars will use Valeo's Scala lidar systems.

europe.autonews.com

If we combine Valeo, renesas, megachips, few others hiding in the background? Maybe within 18 months Brainchip could be receiving $100 million plus.

 

[Diogenese]

Spot on @chapman89
We will have our Ford badge one day


Ford CEO explains why legacy car manufacturers cannot compete with Tesla in software (or make good software). Turns out each car has around 150 modules that control the vehicles that require software - for each module they have a tender and suppliers are bidding against each other. For example, Bosch builds one module, Panasonic builds another, etc. Each supplier writes its own software in different programming languages. For every software change on each module, they have to go back to the supplier to ask for permission because of IP rights. Ford is now trying to build a new generation of modules with in-house software - which they never wrote before.

This shows Mercedes forward thinking.

 

[JB49]

I wasn’t going to post this, but it is on the public domain (LinkedIn)

So Valeo posted an interview with their Innovation Chief the other day, I’ll post the link. The interview was about a range of things and one of them being SCALA 3.

DVN-L Interview: Benazouz Bradaï, Valeo AD Innovation Chief - DVN

Dr. Benazouz Bradaï is Research & Innovation Director and Master Expert in Autonomous Driving at Valeo. In that role, he’s made major scientific and industrial contributions. He is also a…

www.drivingvisionnews.com

Anyway I commented on it and said and I quote-

“
Great interview.

I suspect Valeo has achieved this through breakthroughs in Al and #neuromorphic”

And I received a public comment back from somebody who has worked at Valeo for over 27 years and he responded with-

“
yes we did a lot with #neuromorphic
#SNN

I’ll attach the photo below.

Now you have to ask yourself, is there any other company out there with a commercially available neuromorphic IP?? We all know it’s Brainchip, come on everybody, I know we want to see the announcement that it’s offical, but this is disruptive technology, world first, and as the former CEO said and the current CEO, that these companies see akida as the key differentiator. Now who knows if it will ever become public knowledge? Maybe one day, but from the original offical release of Valeo SCALA 3 that a lot of us watched, and the question was asked, is this using Brainchips akida, and they both looked at each other and didn’t know what to say, and said we can’t say who it is, we may mention it in a few months…..
They’ve never disclosed the IP they are using.

Here’s the photo below, it was only 2-3 days ago this happened!
I hope this brightens up everybody’s weekend

View attachment 39982

Has the comment now been removed from linkedin?

 

[Proga]

Brainchip has everything to bargain with.
It’s their IP and their technology which is “revolutionising the automotive industry”
Take away Brainchip and you’ve got power hungry expensive GPU’s running through software.

We likely won’t ever find out the royalty, but what does seem sure and certain is akida will be featuring in Valeos SCALA3.

Valeo has taken $1 billion euros in Pre Orders already, which is $1.6/7 billion AUD, can we get let’s say 4%? That’s $60-$70 million AUD, and we’ve got to remember, that revenue will continue to grow month on month as more cars are being made, and YoY it will be even more as more cars adopt SCALA3 and it eventually becomes industry standard….and that’s just Valeo.
Valeo supply 1/3 of all sensors to the automotive industry.
Stellantis has also said they will use Valeos SCALA3.

Stellantis to use Valeo lidar for Level 3 self-driving cars from 2024

Stellantis' first generation of 'hands-free, eyes-off' self-driving cars will use Valeo's Scala lidar systems.

europe.autonews.com

If we combine Valeo, renesas, megachips, few others hiding in the background? Maybe within 18 months Brainchip could be receiving $100 million plus.

Any idea how much Scala3 costs Jesse? I'm thinking $1B in orders is just the tip of the iceberg. Since covid, global vehicle sales have dropped to about 90m/yr

 

[chapman89]

Any idea how much Scala3 costs Jesse? I'm thinking $1B in orders is just the tip of the iceberg. Since covid, global vehicle sales have dropped to about 90m/yr

I’m not sure but I would say it is just the tip of the iceberg as well.

 

[IloveLamp]

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ibm.co

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[IloveLamp]

Nice of ARM to tag us don't you think???!

Ah it probably means nothin right..........?

Slip of the mouse? Or are we on a winner? Hard to say

2023 Edge AI Technology Report

The guide to understanding the state of the art in hardware & software in Edge AI.

www.wevolver.com

Ready to leverage edge AI to deliver amazing solutions? 📝 The new guide from Wevolver offers a roadmap to edge AI success filled with insights and case studies from companies like Arm, Edge… | Arm | 12 comments

Ready to leverage edge AI to deliver amazing solutions? 📝 The new guide from Wevolver offers a roadmap to edge AI success filled with insights and case studies from companies like Arm, Edge Impulse, BrainChip , Arduino and more. If you're looking to bring computational power closer to the...

www.linkedin.com

View attachment 39822

🔋 Energy efficiency runs deep in our DNA. | Arm

🔋 Energy efficiency runs deep in our DNA. At #COMPUTEX2023, Rene Haas, our CEO, took center stage to share how our solutions have embraced low power consumption ever since our very first processor over 30 years ago. With demand for compute never higher, our leadership in energy-efficiency is...

www.linkedin.com

 

[TheFunkMachine]

I get the feeling, nothing definitive, MB is moving away from Valeo's Scalia and moving towards Luminar's IRIS which uses Qualcomm. And also moving away from "Hey Mercedes" key word activation towards a system which recognises phrases or tones.

As you know, I was very bullish on MB using Akida in Valeo's Scala 3 and Hey Mercedes featured in the EQXX in the new 2024 EV MMA platform for small and medium cars. Those cars are due for release in the next couple of months.

Statements since the AGM from BRN have been very dower of late about the lack of progress. I would have thought BRN would be more upbeat if Akida IP was going to be in the new soon to be released 2024 MB small to medium electric line-up. I'm talking about body language and tone not breaking NDA's. They're not exactly bubbling over with excitement about anything.

There is a big difference between trusted and used by.

The difference between trusted and used by is inc on paper and maybe an NDA. Mercedes has publicly stated that Akida is 5-10x better power savings and that technology like this will be used in a few years time.

They have since talked about neuromorphic and edge computing quite a bit without mentioning names. Can you provide a link that confirms that they are moving away from “hey Mercedes” . This was a small keyword spotting demo used in a concept car to prove the benefit of Akida technology. Even if they are using some other technology in their infotainment system does not exclude Akida for either hey Mercedes or any other sensor solution in their new range like predictive maintenance vibration analysis, personalised driver experience, radar/LiDAR, driver alertness monitoring etc.

Just my opinion.

 

[Schnitzel lover]

Engaged how? What does that actually mean?

What rumours? It was only me speculating which I highlighted from the start so even the dumbest person wouldn't misunderstand. Some people need to get a grip . Too my people are jumping at shadows.

The unemotional technical conversation I had with Dio with input from others, proved it was feasible for MB to be using IRIS as their Lidar in their 2024 vehicles not that they actually are. It also showed there was scope for Akida to be used in IRIS not that it is.

My observations:
Tech here says 2025.
All the engaged customers want Gen 2.
All engaged customers are oiling the joints to be ready to execute products with Gen 2. Prepping the decks so to say to reduce IP to product timeline.

Gen 2 general availability this qtr.
Gen 2 to tape out to product lines
Gen 2 in early use case industrial, home IOT products 2nd half 2024.
2025 is “hello what do we have here” in H2 2024 BRN report..

In my postulating view

 

[IloveLamp]

RENESAS + SYNOPSYS + QUALCOMM = good times

 

[manny100]

The monthly chart shows that the MACH monthly (29,12.9) relentless momentum move down has ceased and levelled off over the last few months - obvious from the chart below.
A recent attempt to reverse the trend failed (May greenshoot bar) and it looks so far that the SP may have another go at a further 'green shoot' this month - wait and see. Markets??
Contrarion chartists may look at starting to accumulate during these conditions.
The risk is a sell off after the coming Quarter report.
The impatience is waiting for some good news, eg Renesas gets its AKIDA chip off the production line.
Downtrends rarely last forever. This trend will eventually reverse.
Just depends whether you are good at getting your timing right because when it reverses it may move very quickly.

 

[Humble Genius]

Perhaps a link with our sales rep in Israel?

Cipia Wins First European-Maker DMS Contract - DVN

Israel-based Cipia is a provider of intelligent sensing solutions that use edge-based computer vision and AI for safer and better mobility experiences. The company’s product lineup includes Driver Sense (DMS),…

www.drivingvisionnews.com

 

[Boab]

Perhaps a link with our sales rep in Israel?

Cipia Wins First European-Maker DMS Contract - DVN

Israel-based Cipia is a provider of intelligent sensing solutions that use edge-based computer vision and AI for safer and better mobility experiences. The company’s product lineup includes Driver Sense (DMS),…

www.drivingvisionnews.com

View attachment 40021

I can't write them off but it looks like they are working with Ambarella on this one?

NEWS: Cipia and Ambarella Collaborate on In-Cabin Sensing Solution Using Single, Wide Field of View Camera - Cipia

TEL AVIV, Israel, 21 June 2023 — Cipia (TASE: CPIA), an AI computer vision in-cabin automotive solutions provider, today announced a new solution from its continuing collaboration with Ambarella, Inc. (NASDAQ: AMBA), an edge AI semiconductor company. This latest combined solution offers...

cipia.com

 

[buena suerte :-)]

OK .... just been on the current MB website and searched Brainchip Akida on their search bar and as we can see the EQXX comes up!!

If someone else were supplying MB do we not think that this would be removed from the site because of conflicting interests/competition

So this says to me that we are and will continue to be a PARTNER for the forseeable future !!

 

[Colorado23]

Any sniff of BRN here.

Introducing radar: Wayve's sensor stack explained

Why we believe that cameras and radar will be the most important sensors for building a safe and affordable AI Driver system.

bit.ly

 

[Proga]

OK .... just been on the current MB website and searched Brainchip Akida on their search bar and as we can see the EQXX comes up!!

If someone else were supplying MB do we not think that this would be removed from the site because of conflicting interests/competition

So this says to me that we are and will continue to be a PARTNER for the forseeable future !!

View attachment 40025



View attachment 40024










View attachment 40023

I think your logic is flawed. The whole basis of your opinion is MB haven't taken off their website a 2 year old article about a concept car. BRN wasn't the only supplier mentioned and not all suppliers of concept cars make it into a production cars.

 

[chapman89]

I think your logic is flawed. The whole basis of your opinion is MB haven't taken off their website a 2 year old article about a concept car. BRN wasn't the only supplier mentioned and not all suppliers of concept cars make it into a production cars.

Let me settle this one as well!
This was only a couple of weeks ago!!!
Now can everybody just accept that Mercedes and Brainchip are heavily involved with each other and that they see akida as 5-10x more efficient than anything else out there…..

 

[buena suerte :-)]

I think your logic is flawed. The whole basis of your opinion is MB haven't taken off their website a 2 year old article about a concept car. BRN wasn't the only supplier mentioned and not all suppliers of concept cars make it into a production cars.

Ok