BRN Discussion Ongoing

[Diogenese]

Well I just finished reading many comments on these and thanks @Diogenese, @JDelekto and @alwaysgreen for your thoughts.
@Fact Finder I saw you had made fun of me again due to the delayed reply but apologies for having a life outside TSEx and BRN. We had some visitors for dinner last night.

I see that you haven't answered my question in 2 but is referring to a statement from Peter. I acknowledge that he was speaking to shareholders and not to a tech audience. So he may have used certain examples or words that meant something similar to make the message more comprehensible, or maybe he just got carried away but I wasn't in there so I don't know in what context he said that.
But I don't believe that and think GPUs are still required in cars in addition to Akida. If I'm not correct I would like to be pointed to at least one presentation slide or other company source that claims that Akida can replace GPUs in cars or other graphics-heavy applications like gaming. My opinion on this is actually perfectly summed up by @JDelekto.

I never said that Akida is only suitable for Edge applications. What I said was it would outperform GPUs in edge applications when it comes to power consumption and cost. I believe that is why the company is targeting edge use cases.

Regarding the use of Akida in data centres, from memory what the company said was they can take some load off data centres by processing data at the edge device and thereby eliminating the need to send data to the data centre for processing. Would love to be corrected here as well and learn how Akida can fit into a data centre (To be used for general data processing like streaming, banking transactions, Office365 data, etc and not for HPC use cases as described in Sandia report because those are specific use cases)

With that in mind I would like to point you to a couple of statements from the same Sandia research you quoted above;

"In optimal cases, neuromorphic computers will solve problems faster and use less energy than conventional computing, he said."
"The bold assertions should be of interest to the high-performance computing community because finding capabilities to solve statistical problems is of increasing concern, Brad said." - So this is not one size fits all and there are specific use cases where SNN may outperform GPUs.

"The claims are not meant to challenge the primacy of standard computing methods used to run utilities, desktops and phones. “There are, however, areas in which the combination of computing speed and lower energy costs may make neuromorphic computing the ultimately desirable choice,” he said." - So we can't just dismiss GPUs and CPUs just because SNN can perform better in specific use cases.

Therefore still you can't say "AKIDA 1.0 out performs GPUs and CPUs." in a general way without mentioning in what way or what use case.
Anil's quote you have given is actually how you should have made your claim as well. There he is explaining that he is comparing the power consumption of Akida and a GPU when performing the same task.

On another note, if you look at Akida Shuttle PC System Information, it has an Intel Core i5, i7 or i9 processor to run the OS. It also includes a Heatpipe cooling system with two fans. Now given that Peter and the team understand the full power of SNN computing (which I don't challenge) why would they go through all that trouble to include a crappy intel CPU in there when it could have been replaced by a superior Akida 1.0?

I'm not sure of the relevance of the plumbing of the Shuttle to Akida. The Shuttle DH410 is an COTS product to which the Akida PCIe board is designed to plug in. Peter and team did not include the cooling system. It was already included as part of the Shuttle DH410.
https://us.shuttle.com/products/dh410/

The Akida Shuttle PCIe development kit is intended for demonstration/familiarization:
https://shop.brainchipinc.com/products/akida-enablement-platform-shuttle-pc
" DEVELOPMENT KITS ARE NOT INTENDED TO BE USED FOR PRODUCTION PURPOSES"

 

[Fact Finder]

I'm not sure of the relevance of the plumbing of the Shuttle to Akida. The Shuttle DH410 is an OTC product to which the Akida PCIe board is designed to plug in. Peter and team did not include the cooling system. It was already included as part of the Shuttle DH410.
https://us.shuttle.com/products/dh410/

The Akida Shuttle PCIe development kit is intended for demonstration/familiarization:
https://shop.brainchipinc.com/products/akida-enablement-platform-shuttle-pc
" DEVELOPMENT KITS ARE NOT INTENDED TO BE USED FOR PRODUCTION PURPOSES"

Thanks real Engineer @Diogenese one more thing to remember and feed back in future postings and conversations.

My opinion only DYOR
FF

AKIDA BALLISTA

PS: @Milo I have been back through every post since your emerged post and cannot find one where I made fun of you, unless you have mistaken my jesting with @Diogenese about putting Blind Freddie's hat on his favourite chair as being directed at you. Anyway if you point out my comment I will remove it as I have said. FF

 

[Steve10]

View attachment 20602

Thanks Steve.
I personally still think this will take some heavy buying to get the whole market out of trouble. We have been making lower lows for a while now both on SPX and ASX.

Funny how you mention the 11/11/2022 being a key date as a step to escape this, I saw something similar and shared with a few mates (7th Nov) but let us not forget 8th November is the Midterm in US. So some crazy volatility coming up.

Bear market will test the patience of many, and chew up and spit out the retailers so take care everyone.

What indicator is the coloured ribbon in your chart?

Please post a 1 hour chart with the same coloured ribbon.

 

[Chickensalt]

Has anyone watched Landline today? They were talking about a robot lyric that was packing avocados and was mentioned that it learns as it packs and will increase its speed. Nvidia was partnered with the robot.

 

[Steve10]

View attachment 20602

Thanks Steve.
I personally still think this will take some heavy buying to get the whole market out of trouble. We have been making lower lows for a while now both on SPX and ASX.

Funny how you mention the 11/11/2022 being a key date as a step to escape this, I saw something similar and shared with a few mates (7th Nov) but let us not forget 8th November is the Midterm in US. So some crazy volatility coming up.

Bear market will test the patience of many, and chew up and spit out t

View attachment 20602

Thanks Steve.
I personally still think this will take some heavy buying to get the whole market out of trouble. We have been making lower lows for a while now both on SPX and ASX.

Funny how you mention the 11/11/2022 being a key date as a step to escape this, I saw something similar and shared with a few mates (7th Nov) but let us not forget 8th November is the Midterm in US. So some crazy volatility coming up.

Bear market will test the patience of many, and chew up and spit out the retailers so take care everyone.

There is a trend line from GFC bottom, covid bottom & recent bottom on Nasdaq in weekly chart in log scale.

Appears Nasdaq has bounced off this trend line around the 200MA. S&P 500 didn't come to bottom of similar trend line but bounced off around the 200MA.

 

[Fact Finder]

"NVIDIA Jetson Orin Nano utilizes the Ampere-based GPU, along with eight streaming multiprocessors containing 1,024 CUDA cores and 32 Tensor Cores, which will be used for processing artificial intelligence workloads. The Ampere-based GPU Tensor Cores offer improved performance per watt support for sparsity, allowing for twice the Tensor Core throughput."

US2022327101A1 INCREASING SPARCITY IN DATA SETS (Priority 20210409)

View attachment 20568


[0522] ... AI services 3818 may leverage AI system 3824 to execute machine learning model(s) (e.g., neural networks, such as CNNs) for segmentation, reconstruction, object detection, feature detection, classification, and/or other inferencing tasks.

NVIDIA goes fast because it uses lots of TOPS. They reduce power by sparsity, in their case omitting multiplications by zero.

The power figures are 5W to 15W

Hi @Diogenese

I know you are only interested in the engineering but this possible competitor is not only 50 to 150 times more power hungry but it is a minimum of EIGHT times more expensive than an AKIDA 1.0 and still does not have one shot, several shot and incremental learning.

Why bother Nvidia? Why bother?

My opinion only DYOR
FF

AKIDA BALLISTA

 

[Easytiger]

Hi to all the Quantum Professors out there who read this forum. This is the email to Tony Dawe that met with a brick wall response regarding Quantum Annealing:

Hi Tony
While doing some of my rabbit hole research I came across this NASA funded research;

https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2021QuIP...20...70Z/abstract

Which leads me to ask the following questions:

1. Was it an AKIDA software simulation of a spiking neural network that they used?

2. If not, would their findings regarding the compatibility of their Quantum annealing algorithm likely still apply to AKIDA technology?

3. If so, would this significantly advance AKIDA's capabilities to solve route identification for industrial picking robots in factories, drone delivery vehicles and/or air traffic control?

4. Overall what does Quantum computing have to offer AKIDA technology?

5. What does AKIDA technology have to offer Quantum computing?

Please remember I am a retired lawyer not a quantum physics professor so answers of one syllable are required if it is thought reasonable to provide answers.

Kind regards

Though I wish I could take credit for the questions these were provided by my expert @Diogenese as is the practise in my former career.

My opinion only DYOR
FF

AKIDA BALLISTA

Great questions FF, reckon your post may generate equally great answers.

 

[Fact Finder]

Hi @Diogenese

I know you are only interested in the engineering but this possible competitor is not only 50 to 150 times more power hungry but it is a minimum of EIGHT times more expensive than an AKIDA 1.0 and still does not have one shot, several shot and incremental learning.

Why bother Nvidia? Why bother?

My opinion only DYOR
FF

AKIDA BALLISTA

View attachment 20619

Hi @Diogenese
A dumb but serious question because of the following.

Nviso put up the comparison chart comparing AKIDA at 1,000fps with the old Jetson Nano at 100fps.

While in your post Nvidia states that using sparsity it allows for twice the Tensor Core thoughput does this equate to double the 100fps achieved by Nviso???

Regards
FF

AKIDA BALLISTA

 

[Deleted member 118]

Hope everyone had a great weekend after Fridays disaster and let’s hope for a better week next week.

 

[BaconLover]

There is a trend line from GFC bottom, covid bottom & recent bottom on Nasdaq in weekly chart in log scale.

Appears Nasdaq has bounced off this trend line around the 200MA. S&P 500 didn't come to bottom of similar trend line but bounced off around the 200MA.


View attachment 20617

The ribbon is Hull Suite, it's an SMA based indicator. I don't know coding/programming, so just took one which suited my plan on Tradingview.
I will post the 1 hour chart, but I don't use it for shorter time frames, mainly because it gets too messy, and gives too many false signals.

I see you are using US100 whereas I use SPX500 so slight variance in the trendline (I also use the wick as well, not just the candle), but yes, it has bounced off the 200 weekly SMA on SPX too. Just waiting to clear and breakout the downtrend line so as not to be stuck in the 2000 - 2003 market before I buy anything anymore though.
( not financial advice, I understand by doing this I will miss some of the chunky gains, but that's something I am happy with, some of you may have different risk tolerance)

 

[Mccabe84]

Hope everyone had a great weekend after Fridays disaster and let’s hope for a better week next week.

Not really I went to Darby day and lost even more money

 

[FrederikSchack]

Dear Fact Finder!

I know what you're doing!

You are teasing us with bits and pieces of your upcoming 5 volume encyclopedia about Brainchip!

When does it hit the street?

I'm buying!

Best regards,
Frederik

 

[Diogenese]

Hi @Diogenese
A dumb but serious question because of the following.

Nviso put up the comparison chart comparing AKIDA at 1,000fps with the old Jetson Nano at 100fps.

While in your post Nvidia states that using sparsity it allows for twice the Tensor Core thoughput does this equate to double the 100fps achieved by Nviso???

Regards
FF

AKIDA BALLISTA

Hi FF,

it really is comparing chalk to a laser printer.

The short answer is yes, it would double the frame rate. This is because, statistically half the data bits will be zeros and half will be ones, so by ignoring all the multiply by zeros, you reduce the number of operations to be performed by half. You only ignore the the zeros in one of the numbers, the multiplier.

Caution is needed in comparing fps depending on whether the function is as a camera or as a projector. What Akida does is classify camera images. Nvidia can act as a projector in displaying images or it can be used in an AI manner comparable with Akida.

But, alas Nvidia are still stuck in the 20th century with MACs, CNN, ALUs, 8+bits (although I did see somewhere that a couple of competitors (can't recall who?) had caught on to 4-bit quantization) ... eg:


US2020364508A1 USING DECAY PARAMETERS FOR INFERENCING WITH NEURAL NETWORKS (Priority: 20190514)

1 . A processor, comprising:

one or more arithmetic logic units (ALUs) to be configured to identify one or more digital representations of one or more objects based, at least in part, on one or more neural networks trained using one or more decay parameters.

2 . The processor of claim 1, wherein the one or more ALUs are further to be configured to:
apply the one or more decay parameters to prior state information maintained for the one or more neural networks and used for identifying the one or more objects, a weighting of the prior state information being reduced according to the one or more decay parameters.

3 . The processor of claim 2, wherein the one or more ALUs are further to be configured to:
store the state information external to the one or more neural networks and providing the state information to the one or more neural networks for each set of input to the one or more neural networks.
5 . The processor of claim 1, wherein the one or more ALUs are further to be configured to:
determine the one or more decay parameters using a hyper-optimization process and a selected decay function.

[0070] … The training manager 712 can be responsible for training the data, such as by using a LARC-based approach as discussed herein. The network can be any appropriate network, such as a recurrent neural network (RNN) or convolutional neural network (CNN), among other such options.

[0072] … If permitted and available, user data may also be collected and used to further train the models, in order to provide more accurate inferences for future requests. Requests may be received through a user interface to a machine learning application 726 executing on the client device 702 [#### ie, a software app ####] in some embodiments, and the results displayed through the same interface. The client device can include resources such as a processor 728 and memory 730 for generating the request and processing the results or response, as well as at least one data storage element 732 for storing data for the machine learning application 726 .

It isn't really fair to compare legacy equipment with the SOTA.

 

[skutza]

I personally want to thank all of the positive proactive people on this site for being here, not only do you help me stay grounded, but you fill me with hope and positivity for the future.
Thank you guys
It means a lot to me as this roller coaster has been quite wild from the highs of 350k plus to the lows of - 15k

This community is what you say it is and also it's own worst nightmare. I like reading it for fun, learning and overall interest in the field. What I don't use it for is to help me decide whether i should buy more or sell. There are so many knowledgeable people here that like finding and joining the dots, but as Tony said, FACTS are the most important. I have heard from a few company bosses/marketing types that shareholders who are patient will be rewarded. This is often BS. I've never heard a CEO or director come out and say, if you hold too long you'll lose all your money or a large % of it! So take 99% of what is written here as possibilities, because unless it comes through the ASX ann then thats all it is.

This is at no means a dig at management or any poster here, it's just.......fact....... Be positive for mostly one reason, you made a choice to buy and you hope it was the right choice. For every 10 smallcaps companies I invest I or 2 come through. BRN seems the most likely for me to be another good long term investment.

 

[McHale]

Well it’s hard to sugar coat it. Yesterday was a disappointing day for holders. For me, brainchip is a difficult company to invest in as I don’t fully (or even remotely) understand how this technology works. But with the help of others on this forum I do have an idea of the concepts of Akida, and the revolutionary direction the neuromorphic industry could lead modern technology. Personally I still consider it a risky investment due to the space we operate in. I believe our biggest risk is competitors. You only have to look at the past ten years to see the rapid developments in technology, with some companies being left in the dust of the big players. That being said, I do back our superior tech, and the direction this company is heading, although do understand the adoption of technology can be a lot slower than expected. I trust management will deliver on their ambitions for the business.

While I appreciate and applaud the dot joining of the thousand eyes, I personally can’t take these speculations as fact when valuing the business. Maybe these speculations are what has partially inflated the share price and maybe for some the expectation of revenue, or maybe I’m just a hopeful pessimist. Although since we were last trading around the 60c - 70c, I believe the company has added significant value.

I see some people get annoyed with the lack of information due to NDAs, but in the highly competitive environment we’re in, these are in our favour in the long run. This investment is a marathon not a sprint. We have to trust management and remember the facts.

While I don’t side with shorters and downrampers, I do see their side of the coin. From a financial perspective the billion dollar plus valuation can seem overshot with the lack of revenue, other tech giants hot on our tales, and the current financial climate. But for the majority here, the value is in our indisputable ip, patents, world class partnerships and end goal of being the de facto standard of edge AI.

These discrepancies in value creates volatility, and volatility creates opportunities for investors.

The coming quarterly’s will really be the make or break for brainchip as I do think they will need to prove their strategy of turning their genius into dollars. because at the end of the day the goal of a business is generally to make money. If brainchip does succeed, it will change our lives more than just financially. That’s the kind of technology we’re investing in.

All in all, I don’t blame those that sell in times like these. People’s investment strategies are different and time will tell who prevails. If only we could invest with hindsight.

That was a great post @Kiwikangaroo, a very good, on balance summary of where we are.

Myself, I do not take anything as a given here, and yes we were forewarned of lumpy income, but what we just got was in fact a very deep valley. I am not an accountant, but perhaps some creative accountacy (as long as it was conducted within what might be accepted as "proper" practice) might have helped smooth this very deep fall-off in qtrly income.

Perhaps BRN might consider the notion of creative accounting or back-ending the some of the relatively small amount of income they have had so far, so that events as severe as last Friday can possibly be mitigated to some extent. BRN is in ASX200, there are a lot of eyes watching, and our company is now worth 21% less than it was Thurs closing.

So while from the point of view that nothing has changed with regard to the contracts and numerous other partnerships, NDA's, EAP's, which Rob, Sean, Jerome et al have been developing; the market on the other hand, now values BRN very differently.

The headwinds Sean spoke are not likely to diminish, we know there has been progress made, and while I am really appreciative of the excellent research which is shared here, we really don't know what is happening behind the scenes or to what extent any number of partnerships have developed. I believe BRN could be more forthcoming with information, without breaching any contractual matters.

I am not impatient, I have been holding for 7 years, I have seen timelines changed (more than once), I have not ever sold a single share, basically have accumulated what to me is a reasonable holding. This would certainly be life changing if BRN can actually land contracts or real sales with some of the companies BRN has relationships with.

However my bottom line here is that we don't have forever, the global economy is a far worse shambles than most realize, and the headwinds mentioned earlier, most certainly will NOT diminish. I am not at all comfortable with that view of things, and I am also, most certainly not a pessimist, however I do spend a lot of time researching macro economics, and the pictures that I see are un-settling and the economy as we have known it - has a looming horizon (not the end of the world - but not pretty). In my strong opinion time is very much of the essence, and of more than a little concern to me. Hence my disappointment Friday

Regardless of all the above, I have a wonderful life and spend a lot of time laughing, and will always remain grateful for that, and count myself as truly blessed, I also remain a true holder of the BRN faith, even though my view of things is at quite some variance with some of the views posted here; and one of my deep wishes, is for all of us to share a manifest outcome to our mutual investment in what I hope are the magnificent iterations of BRN's Akida.

 

[Steve10]

The ribbon is Hull Suite, it's an SMA based indicator. I don't know coding/programming, so just took one which suited my plan on Tradingview.
I will post the 1 hour chart, but I don't use it for shorter time frames, mainly because it gets too messy, and gives too many false signals.

View attachment 20620

I see you are using US100 whereas I use SPX500 so slight variance in the trendline (I also use the wick as well, not just the candle), but yes, it has bounced off the 200 weekly SMA on SPX too. Just waiting to clear and breakout the downtrend line so as not to be stuck in the 2000 - 2003 market before I buy anything anymore though.
( not financial advice, I understand by doing this I will miss some of the chunky gains, but that's something I am happy with, some of you may have different risk tolerance)

View attachment 20622

Thanks. The 1 hour chart will be very messy & will not pick up the trend change via aligned MA's seen on 1 hour chart. No need to post it as I have picked up the trend change on the 1 hour chart with MA's.

The MA's on Nasdaq, SP500, ASX etc are similar to 2001-2003 period you mentioned & 2007-2008. Market could still go either way after this rally. The DOW has tagged the downwards bear market trendline. We'll see if it can go higher this week or not.

 

[Salad1]

After that 4c report how can the company justify issuing performance rights to any of the employees.........

 

[Tothemoon24]

After that 4c report how can the company justify issuing performance rights to any of the employees.........

You know what can be found in a Salad ?

A dirty grub

 

[rgupta]

After that 4c report how can the company justify issuing performance rights to any of the employees.........

Just because every one is not working on sales. And on top sales people may have different time frame to achieve their targets as compared to 4c s
Yes 4c is important but company never provide us with a guidance to evaluate what to expect.
SP of any company runs on a lot of parameters and sales is one of many parameters.
Dyor

 

[MDhere]

0.03% or ~520,000 shares. It doesn't seem like much, but their holdings increased on a day that was touted as a negative by some.

instos 1
dumbos 0