teilenswert
Regular
Which websites do you use to track those volumes? I usually check marketwatch.com, but they only seem to track ASX and OTC, but I never see my own trades over L&S.
Bingo This Ship is Away
- Thread starter WheresTheMonkey
- Start date
cosors
👀
Take Onvista and then the tab all rates there it now also shows the spread since the last update. The only stock exchange that is missing is the ASX itself:Which websites do you use to track those volumes? I usually check marketwatch.com, but they only seem to track ASX and OTC, but I never see my own trades over L&S.
https://www.onvista.de/aktien/handelsplaetze/TALGA-RESOURCES-Aktie-AU000000TLG7?notation=37572887
cosors
👀
The quantity increases by the minute but the SP is still moderate. I don't quite understand that. As if the market makers were prepared or caught off guard.
teilenswert
Regular
Ok thx, tomorrow's trades will be much more interesting anyway
beserk
Regular
Hi anbuck
First of all I must say the Swedish courts are thorough. I requested a copy of ALL documents in the Case 1573 - 20. In reply I got a 60 page list of every entry into the meticolously kept file on Case 1573 -20 and query of what specific Aktbilaga I wanted to see?
I have scanned through the 60 pages and there are patterns that are starting to appear including repeating patterns of names of individual members of the anti graphite brigade in Vittangi, the leader of the Soc Dem anti faction, legal reps for Talma and surrounding Sami villages, Nature protection Sweden but also the equivalent organisations on the Finnish side of the border. And of course lawyers representing Talga.
And I now can see that SL& E court in Umeå have been working diligently behind the scenes coordinating this mammoth task during the last three years.
And a large part of the task has indeed gone into translating all 770 individual pieces of info to Finnish, meänkielinen, Northern Sami and to distribute them and receive answers back in three different languages then translate it back to Swedish. It must have cost a lot of effort and money.
So my naive question of asking for ALL documents was rightly met with a meeeh?
Anyhow the intereting diary entry comes on p 59.5 of the doc and specifically deals with the DOM(deldom) Aktbilaga 491.
So it was interesting to read every diary entry and every single request of the antis and lawyers and Sami villages and glean more about them.
But I have now narrowed down my request to the nitty gritty part. And am hopeful that the court registrar will get back to me during working hours tomorrow Swedish time.
Ta ta for now, as Lesley my dearly departed mother in law just to say to me,
-beserk
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You are amazing, Beserk!
WheresTheMonkey
Regular
I find the wording of the decision interesting in the emphasis it placed on the technical knowledge of the judges.
Almost like................. "Appeal this if you want but these Judges know what they are talking about and you ain't gonna win"..........
"- That the water can be purified means that mining operations can be conducted without unacceptable risks for land and water environments. The terms of the judgment have been determined to guarantee this, says Per Lagervall, as a technically knowledgeable judge in the case.
- A mine always involves an intervention in the natural environment and an impact on reindeer husbandry. In this case, mining will only be allowed to take place the six months a year that the Sami villages are not in the area. The court has therefore concluded that mining operations and reindeer herding can coexist on the site, says Lena Nilsson, also a technically knowledgeable judge in the case...."
Almost like................. "Appeal this if you want but these Judges know what they are talking about and you ain't gonna win"..........
"- That the water can be purified means that mining operations can be conducted without unacceptable risks for land and water environments. The terms of the judgment have been determined to guarantee this, says Per Lagervall, as a technically knowledgeable judge in the case.
- A mine always involves an intervention in the natural environment and an impact on reindeer husbandry. In this case, mining will only be allowed to take place the six months a year that the Sami villages are not in the area. The court has therefore concluded that mining operations and reindeer herding can coexist on the site, says Lena Nilsson, also a technically knowledgeable judge in the case...."
Monkeymandan
Regular
I thought the same thing. The appointment of judges with expertise in the fields of water discharge and reindeer husbandry - being the two highest risks to the project, shows they weren’t taking any chances with this assessment. Which makes the appeal pathway on either of these grounds nigh on impossible.
Also very reassuring to see Talga confirm the conditions imposed were only those they put forward themselves - no new onerous conditions.
WheresTheMonkey
Regular
Nah........we should have realised there would be profit taking from CR holders. In retrospect it was obvious this would happen. There will be a few more days of this I expect unless MT unleashes a mega announcement.
Patience required..............still
Huge amount of churn - over 5 million shares traded today so far.
I expected $2 today - but thought i might last longer than a split second!
Agree that it may take a few days for the short term traders and cap raise participants to adjust their portfolios and new entrants take positions or more risk averse existing holders top up now that permits are approved.
Perhaps it will take MT to land the first binding offtake deal with ACC on favourable terms or demonstrate the pathway to raise the financing without another cap raise given Mitsui is no longer in the picture to move above the $2 base. We still don't know if that contribution Mitsui was going to provide (~40%) can be entirely covered by debt or will still need either a strategic investor or additional capital to be raised via shareholders.
Once the 3-week window for contesting the decision, i'd love to see MT talk openly about what Talga and ABB have been cooking up behind the scenes in terms of the expanded underground plans at Niska (aka Niska Expansion). MT said there was further scope to reduce the already low CO2 footprint of the planned operations and expect electric mining equipment to be a prominent feature.
The other announcement i'm keenly waiting on is news of Talga's future partnership to launch Talnode Si in Germany and potential to expand into the US via the IRA. I think the market will find such an announcement hard to ignore once the scale of operations becomes apparent.
I expected $2 today - but thought i might last longer than a split second!
Agree that it may take a few days for the short term traders and cap raise participants to adjust their portfolios and new entrants take positions or more risk averse existing holders top up now that permits are approved.
Perhaps it will take MT to land the first binding offtake deal with ACC on favourable terms or demonstrate the pathway to raise the financing without another cap raise given Mitsui is no longer in the picture to move above the $2 base. We still don't know if that contribution Mitsui was going to provide (~40%) can be entirely covered by debt or will still need either a strategic investor or additional capital to be raised via shareholders.
Once the 3-week window for contesting the decision, i'd love to see MT talk openly about what Talga and ABB have been cooking up behind the scenes in terms of the expanded underground plans at Niska (aka Niska Expansion). MT said there was further scope to reduce the already low CO2 footprint of the planned operations and expect electric mining equipment to be a prominent feature.
The other announcement i'm keenly waiting on is news of Talga's future partnership to launch Talnode Si in Germany and potential to expand into the US via the IRA. I think the market will find such an announcement hard to ignore once the scale of operations becomes apparent.
WheresTheMonkey
Regular
I also like this bit.......
Talga's application for permission was submitted to the court at the end of May 2020. The processing time from the time the application was received until the court announced its verdict has amounted to almost three years.
- The goal has been a little unusual because the application has also been made available to the public in Finland. Material has also been translated into Finnish. It has affected the court's processing time, explains Anna Svedjevik, councillor.
Now if I am the guy or gal that chooses the judges to hear this initial permit hearing I'd make damn sure that I selected only the best legal and environmental minds in my Environmental Court after 3 long expensive years of back and forth.
I don't want a credible challenge/appeal to be mounted.
Amur27
Emerged
WTM - I agree, the statement from the Land and Environmental Court was worded very strongly. With only a three week window for lodging appeals, maybe the proponents will think twice about their position and 'head for the hills'. We have the advantage of a strong hearing outcome and the fact that we have already overcome a major hurdle - always hard to overturn logical outcomes!
1. Congrats again everyone!
2. Opposition was always doomed to fail. They're main argument was that the court only assessed what was being applied for - they didn't assess something potentially happening in the future. Stupid because a) not how the system works, and b) doesn't prove the expanded scenario would have been problematic anyway.
This position was never gonna work for them, nor will it on appeals.
3. Any speculation in who might be wanting to take an equity position in TLG? When I see this kind of price movement after an announcement like this - sure part of it is cap raise turning a profit, sell-the-news etx, but I wonder if there's someone trying to keep it down because there's a bigger discussion happening. Such conversations likely already happening at various levels and likely contingent on having a mining licence. Either way.... 4. more big news surely coming soon
2. Opposition was always doomed to fail. They're main argument was that the court only assessed what was being applied for - they didn't assess something potentially happening in the future. Stupid because a) not how the system works, and b) doesn't prove the expanded scenario would have been problematic anyway.
This position was never gonna work for them, nor will it on appeals.
3. Any speculation in who might be wanting to take an equity position in TLG? When I see this kind of price movement after an announcement like this - sure part of it is cap raise turning a profit, sell-the-news etx, but I wonder if there's someone trying to keep it down because there's a bigger discussion happening. Such conversations likely already happening at various levels and likely contingent on having a mining licence. Either way.... 4. more big news surely coming soon
cosors
👀
At least it shows that the absolutely unusual SP stability here was planned and coordinated yesterday. Normally and 100% so far trading here outside the home exchange ASX is ~tight. Every (larger) movement is increasingly visible in the SP. But for the first time after my several years of observation it did not. So this was the market makers plan from the start. Unfortunately, I guess we can't see behind the scene who and why. But I think that doesn't matter in the medium term, or I hope it doesn't.
I think we need now some news and re-sorting. And then if the one with the plan ~allows it the SP will move and FOMO will occur. Before that, the retailer in mass is certainly rather unsettled what's going on.
But I have little idea of these events, unfortunately. Maybe someone of you here has experience with this situation? The argument with the MC increase seems obvious to me. But why does someone invest in this company to then sell shortly after the crucial info? Nothing has changed in the overall market in the short time. Any other ideas?
I think we need now some news and re-sorting. And then if the one with the plan ~allows it the SP will move and FOMO will occur. Before that, the retailer in mass is certainly rather unsettled what's going on.
But I have little idea of these events, unfortunately. Maybe someone of you here has experience with this situation? The argument with the MC increase seems obvious to me. But why does someone invest in this company to then sell shortly after the crucial info? Nothing has changed in the overall market in the short time. Any other ideas?
cosors
👀
Or did someone just want to have his money back because he has other plans internally with the money and it was not about the company at all and only provided the money for the MC increase. Does this make any sense?
Stares_into_Space
Emerged
It's also possible that these CR investors are really short on cash. After effects of the seemingly global bank run?
Semmel
Regular
If you compare to NVX (-8%) and SYR (-4%), we are not doing so bad. So not a favorable market environment. Maybe many traders are already gone for Easter, who knows? Strange share price behavior, maybe it takes a few days to sort it self out. Will probably give us Europeans another chance to get a few shares extra
On the role of market makers.. or MM for short. They are not some evil entities, usually. They are there to "make a market". They do have a special role on the stock exchange that comes with special rights and special responsibilities. What are these? A MM must provide any stock for trade on the exchange. Meaning, if little Joe wants shares of X, they can get them. Whether or not a seller exist. The MM will make the trade. In exchange, the MM is allowed to naked short sell any share for a couple of days. Meaning, they can sell Joe his stock without having it in the first place. They don't even have to lend it from someone. They can just grab a few shares out of thin air and sell them to Joe.
But then, the MM has to go and find these shares on the open Market. And i think that's exactly what happened yesterday with Talga on the European exchanges. The MM sold the shares to us. Then turned to Australia and bought them back. That's the spike in the morning. Why the fuck the share price Fell after that? No idea.
Can these rights and privileges be misused somehow? Yes. See GME. Where MM sold a ton of shares to the apes, without having them. But then they couldn't find them on the open Market either. That's what the 'failure to deliver' was about. So in case of GME you had a short squeeze and on top of that MM that were naked short GME shares. Which turned that stock into a bomb. So bad reputation for MM.
But in essence, without MM, none of us on the European market would have shares of Talga. Or we would have to wait weeks at a time to find a seller. So it's a net positive for us. No need to hate on the MM. Anyway, we are in for a ride
On the role of market makers.. or MM for short. They are not some evil entities, usually. They are there to "make a market". They do have a special role on the stock exchange that comes with special rights and special responsibilities. What are these? A MM must provide any stock for trade on the exchange. Meaning, if little Joe wants shares of X, they can get them. Whether or not a seller exist. The MM will make the trade. In exchange, the MM is allowed to naked short sell any share for a couple of days. Meaning, they can sell Joe his stock without having it in the first place. They don't even have to lend it from someone. They can just grab a few shares out of thin air and sell them to Joe.
But then, the MM has to go and find these shares on the open Market. And i think that's exactly what happened yesterday with Talga on the European exchanges. The MM sold the shares to us. Then turned to Australia and bought them back. That's the spike in the morning. Why the fuck the share price Fell after that? No idea.
Can these rights and privileges be misused somehow? Yes. See GME. Where MM sold a ton of shares to the apes, without having them. But then they couldn't find them on the open Market either. That's what the 'failure to deliver' was about. So in case of GME you had a short squeeze and on top of that MM that were naked short GME shares. Which turned that stock into a bomb. So bad reputation for MM.
But in essence, without MM, none of us on the European market would have shares of Talga. Or we would have to wait weeks at a time to find a seller. So it's a net positive for us. No need to hate on the MM. Anyway, we are in for a ride
The thing that doesn't make sense to me about that explanation is that if it were just a market maker selling all of the shares, they would see the high volume of buyers and dearth of sellers and would then raise the price. However that didn't happen. There were endless shares available and the ask price didn't budge, even went down for certain periods.If you compare to NVX (-8%) and SYR (-4%), we are not doing so bad. So not a favorable market environment. Maybe many traders are already gone for Easter, who knows? Strange share price behavior, maybe it takes a few days to sort it self out. Will probably give us Europeans another chance to get a few shares extra
On the role of market makers.. or MM for short. They are not some evil entities, usually. They are there to "make a market". They do have a special role on the stock exchange that comes with special rights and special responsibilities. What are these? A MM must provide any stock for trade on the exchange. Meaning, if little Joe wants shares of X, they can get them. Whether or not a seller exist. The MM will make the trade. In exchange, the MM is allowed to naked short sell any share for a couple of days. Meaning, they can sell Joe his stock without having it in the first place. They don't even have to lend it from someone. They can just grab a few shares out of thin air and sell them to Joe.
But then, the MM has to go and find these shares on the open Market. And i think that's exactly what happened yesterday with Talga on the European exchanges. The MM sold the shares to us. Then turned to Australia and bought them back. That's the spike in the morning. Why the fuck the share price Fell after that? No idea.
Can these rights and privileges be misused somehow? Yes. See GME. Where MM sold a ton of shares to the apes, without having them. But then they couldn't find them on the open Market either. That's what the 'failure to deliver' was about. So in case of GME you had a short squeeze and on top of that MM that were naked short GME shares. Which turned that stock into a bomb. So bad reputation for MM.
But in essence, without MM, none of us on the European market would have shares of Talga. Or we would have to wait weeks at a time to find a seller. So it's a net positive for us. No need to hate on the MM. Anyway, we are in for a ride