BET Shorting

Lattelarry

Regular
So MQG highest sell price was $1.29 and lowest was $0.585.
Highest buy was $1.22 and lowest was $0.62.
It looks like they have bought 15.4M and sold 51.3M so they are short 35.9M.
So I guess its not just them shorting if this is complete.
 
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Lattelarry

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Agree….and so does Simply Wall St recent insider transactions list.

View attachment 1224
Good find!
MQG Short Sales in early Feb:

2/2 1.8M
3/2 0.45M
4/2 2.7M
7/2 2.25M
8/2 2.25M
9/2 5.3M
10/2 23.8M

Interesting that Simply WS has 39M for 10/2 when I only see 23.8M in the trades...
 
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Lattelarry

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@Lattelarry…….I just noticed nooks over on HC talking to crickets……shame he didn’t come over.
I know - I was very tempted to reply. Don't understand why he didn't, there were enough msgs.
 
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Blockhead

Emerged
….anyway, I think we got this topic covered!!….unlike the shorters 😎
No shorter here, just couldn’t resist placing order for another 20% of my current holdings as IMO I can only see green.
Cheers H
 
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billyidol

Member
Agree….and so does Simply Wall St recent insider transactions list.
Sorry, I'm confused as to how shares could get sold at a max price of $1.20, $1.29, $1.17 etc. when the share price has never been anywhere near this during January 2022 ?

Why would anyone take the opposite side of the trade (i.e. buy at that price when the open market is nowhere near this (or am I missing something)) ? Happy to stand corrected; I'm just confused by that part.
 

Lattelarry

Regular
Sorry, I'm confused as to how shares could get sold at a max price of $1.20, $1.29, $1.17 etc. when the share price has never been anywhere near this during January 2022 ?

Why would anyone take the opposite side of the trade (i.e. buy at that price when the open market is nowhere near this (or am I missing something)) ? Happy to stand corrected; I'm just confused by that part.
These were sold last year. From memory it was around the end of September the first trades in their disclosure are from.
 
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Lattelarry

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Shorts are pulling up….still No.2………Nice work @Lattelarry!

View attachment 1294
View attachment 1295
We could be at this 11.5% for a while. It will take multiple good news to shake I think.
I was just listening to a podcast with the chairman of PNV, another heavily shorted stock and he was talking about the strong correlation between a reduction in shorts and a rise in SP. They went from $2.50 with 7% shorted to $4 and 2% shorts. They've been hammered again back down though.
I definitely think BET could have the same thing happen where it will get way over valued for a while if shorts are forced to close, possibly with a good run on news in March.
 
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Lattelarry

Regular
They still couldn't get it under $0.6
 
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Lattelarry

Regular
Shorts really piling in today - figured they weren't happy when they only got it to 0.57 before
 
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Cameron

Emerged
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billyidol

Member
Whats with the days to cover??? I've never been able to understand that especially when days don't come with decimal points
I'll offer my understanding...I believe - though I could be wrong - that this would be at present volumes, the 'days' required to close the position out.

e.g. If there are 100 million shares that are being shorted, and turnover is 20 million a day, it would take five days of trading to clear their positions.

My stab aside, let's just say that an announcement hits, it's positive, the market loves it and there's a BIG uptake in volume traded; that figure may change drastically, but the volume and the price at which you have to buy back the shares to give them back to the original owner (who lent them to you to short) - are to me, two sides of the same coin and are interrelated. Volume is created by a demand to buy or sell.

I just can't see how the price is going to oscillate around a set figure (e.g. 60c) in sufficient volumes (to close out a position) when there's nothing in the market to shift it (in terms of an announcement, ignoring longs / shorts and general market sentiment around Russia and inflation for the moment); it's just not that big enough to be popular for people to trade large volumes around differences of a few cents (e.g. your BHPs or STW).

Average market volume (at least, at this size of market cap) isn't going to be wide enough to absorb all of these short positions; if the average volume is 5 million shares per day (as per the ASX and the picture above) and we have 102 million reported shorts, I don't know how they arrive at 12 days; surely 20 ?

If we get a significant enough announcement; for example - a takeover or unsolicited bid - that valued the company at $X.YZ, then straight away, you would see a move in the price as the shorts try to close their position; unfortunately, they are not wide enough to accommodate everyone and so, there is a rate determining step / bottleneck there, as there can only be a certain volume of people who take the other side of the trade and sell to them. If they are unable to buy (to return the shares they borrowed), then even with the best intentions of buying back in, it could run away from them over the course of a number of days.

(I hope so. I really do).
 
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Cameron

Emerged
I'll offer my understanding...I believe - though I could be wrong - that this would be at present volumes, the 'days' required to close the position out.

e.g. If there are 100 million shares that are being shorted, and turnover is 20 million a day, it would take five days of trading to clear their positions.

My stab aside, let's just say that an announcement hits, it's positive, the market loves it and there's a BIG uptake in volume traded; that figure may change drastically, but the volume and the price at which you have to buy back the shares to give them back to the original owner (who lent them to you to short) - are to me, two sides of the same coin and are interrelated. Volume is created by a demand to buy or sell.

I just can't see how the price is going to oscillate around a set figure (e.g. 60c) in sufficient volumes (to close out a position) when there's nothing in the market to shift it (in terms of an announcement, ignoring longs / shorts and general market sentiment around Russia and inflation for the moment); it's just not that big enough to be popular for people to trade large volumes around differences of a few cents (e.g. your BHPs or STW).

Average market volume (at least, at this size of market cap) isn't going to be wide enough to absorb all of these short positions; if the average volume is 5 million shares per day (as per the ASX and the picture above) and we have 102 million reported shorts, I don't know how they arrive at 12 days; surely 20 ?

If we get a significant enough announcement; for example - a takeover or unsolicited bid - that valued the company at $X.YZ, then straight away, you would see a move in the price as the shorts try to close their position; unfortunately, they are not wide enough to accommodate everyone and so, there is a rate determining step / bottleneck there, as there can only be a certain volume of people who take the other side of the trade and sell to them. If they are unable to buy (to return the shares they borrowed), then even with the best intentions of buying back in, it could run away from them over the course of a number of days.

(I hope so. I really do).
Thankyou for the run down my man much appreciated
 
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comin2getme

Member
I'll offer my understanding...I believe - though I could be wrong - that this would be at present volumes, the 'days' required to close the position out.

e.g. If there are 100 million shares that are being shorted, and turnover is 20 million a day, it would take five days of trading to clear their positions.

My stab aside, let's just say that an announcement hits, it's positive, the market loves it and there's a BIG uptake in volume traded; that figure may change drastically, but the volume and the price at which you have to buy back the shares to give them back to the original owner (who lent them to you to short) - are to me, two sides of the same coin and are interrelated. Volume is created by a demand to buy or sell.

I just can't see how the price is going to oscillate around a set figure (e.g. 60c) in sufficient volumes (to close out a position) when there's nothing in the market to shift it (in terms of an announcement, ignoring longs / shorts and general market sentiment around Russia and inflation for the moment); it's just not that big enough to be popular for people to trade large volumes around differences of a few cents (e.g. your BHPs or STW).

Average market volume (at least, at this size of market cap) isn't going to be wide enough to absorb all of these short positions; if the average volume is 5 million shares per day (as per the ASX and the picture above) and we have 102 million reported shorts, I don't know how they arrive at 12 days; surely 20 ?

If we get a significant enough announcement; for example - a takeover or unsolicited bid - that valued the company at $X.YZ, then straight away, you would see a move in the price as the shorts try to close their position; unfortunately, they are not wide enough to accommodate everyone and so, there is a rate determining step / bottleneck there, as there can only be a certain volume of people who take the other side of the trade and sell to them. If they are unable to buy (to return the shares they borrowed), then even with the best intentions of buying back in, it could run away from them over the course of a number of days.

(I hope so. I really do).
I'm way out of my depth on this topic, but i have been trying to understand whats going on. I added up the trades in the last 2 MQG holding BET announcements.

13,737,751 : On market purchase
975,307 : On market sale

1,676,754 : Stock - Purchase
50,331,125 : Stock - Sale

56,097,986 : Borrow delivery
501,000 : Bortow return

60,000,001 : Derivative Sale

This doesn't add up to the 100million shares held by mqg as stated on the last announcement- which means I'm missing something.

It does however give an incite into what theyre doing previous to Feb 15.

What Im thinking is either:
A) does the % shorted (found on shortman) equal to the amount of shares borrowed,
or is it
B) the amount of borrowed shares sold - need to be bought back.

The 2 amounts in either A or B will be different.

The point im tryimg to make is that there may not be 102 million shares that need to be bought back - as you were saying -> thats alot of days buying - would be extraordinary movement to get done quickly.
 
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Lattelarry

Regular
So with the days to cover it looks to me like daily average is 8.274M so when you do 103.7 / 8.274 it gives you the 12.53 days.

@comingtogetme I'm thinking your point A. Have a feeling they are still hanging onto a lot which were borrowed and haven't been sold but are showing up on shorted shares.

They do have that clause so they can return $ instead of shares which would be a way of not blowing out the price.

I do believe they sold the 23M to another insto though at 0.725 so these would somehow need to be bought back or paid out to make Waterhouse whole.
 
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Lattelarry

Regular
Pretty good gain today. I wonder if that's from some of the shorters closing. I have a feeling if we get a critical mass of shorting it will snowball as you don't want to be last when there are this many that need to close.
 
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comin2getme

Member
@Lattelarry I think that was @comin2getme Point A

It looks as though we are going to hit 12.2% in shorts soon
60million Derivative sale.... this is probably the half of the short total that i didnt count. CFD included in the short count... they make alot of money on their stock on the way down, no major announcements for the past few months... can't lose.
Prediction is : shorts will close just prior to good news announcements. And then they get to ride the roller coaster back up again!
 
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Lattelarry

Regular
@Lattelarry I think that was @comin2getme Point A

It looks as though we are going to hit 12.2% in shorts soon
Yep sorry corrected it.

We're still a long way off no1!

I can't see us reaching it.

@comin2getme we can make good money from it to though. Just have to keep some in the tank so you can buy once they've pushed it down and have the patience to hold it.
 
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Lattelarry

Regular
Despite increasing shorts we've dropped to number 3.
 
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comin2getme

Member
Very interested to see the shorting data over the next week or 2. I'd be concerned if they don't start wrapping it up soon.
 
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Hi guys, first post here as i've been having a bit of a look at the short action on this stock and think it looks rather weak actually. I can see the price isn't going up but today was low volume and it appears the shorts probably did most of the selling.

Yesterday they sold 1.4 million shares and still got a green close but todays vwap was 62.5, higher than yesterday. We only did 4.8m in total today which is bugger all compared to SOI.

I bought more today and will buy more tomorrow if it dips back into the 50's.

Cheers
 
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