AVZ Discussion 2022

[ptlas]

It's interesting how many posts appear when folks are optimistic ( many ) and how few when the mood is down
ATM, they're thick and fast.

Nothing has changed except somebody has probably told NF that they are relatively close to closing this whole sorry saga. Give us another month, we're really, really close.

What has changed is the mood, people believe we've agreed a price etc, etc.
A little like believing in the tooth fairy.
Point is, nobody knows until it happens that it's true / exists. Until then, it's hope, hope that we all share.

How many months will they ask for ICSID postponement? Do you expect KoBold and DRC to act in good faith towards AVZ?
A slightly different point, we have all seen how Putin has stalled Trump. Why will this necessarily be different?

Felix and the rest of his cronies have a primary interest that encompasses staying out of gaol, staying in power and collecting paper bags.
Maybe these aims necessitate dancing to the US tune. Maybe they don't, and the head honchos disappear to Saudi, China or somewhere equally dodgy, but only when they need to. Very few of these corrupt leaders ever see the inside of a court room, let alone a prison.

My simple point is that this has been, for me, an eight year shit show and it it still is.
Nothing is resolved, and until it is; or we get concrete signs that it is, then nothing has changed.
Concrete signs are AVZ, and only AVZ announcements.
I just think that this shit had gone on for so long, that we should not think that we're out of the woods until we can no longer see any trees.
AIMO.

3000 pages.

 

[Dave Evans]

This is both incorrect and fear mongering. This is not a buyout of the company we hold shares in. An asset the company we hold is being sold. And even then it's not really an asset. What's then done with the proceeds of that sale will likely require a special general meeting and a vote by shareholders but to suggest the Chinese have a say is flat out wrong.

I’m glad you changed the subject from KoBold’s offer and the ICSID. It’s a good way to head page 3000.

Here’s the chart @Winenut produced of AVZ’s structure, I’m interested down the track in your views on the structure of the company, tax implications, and the options we might have in affecting how capital is returned to us once the dust settles.

In other words, it would be good to have something else to focus on

 

[Randenj]

Don’t know whether you’ve been reading the room but Macron isn’t exactly a huge fan of Orange Boy as you call him and France isn’t that enamoured with the US currently so I doubt that kind of tactic would have played out.

The rest of your post is well reasoned though.

On a minor point, the ICSID is an arm of the World Bank based in NY city. The bank is being targeted by the US Treasury to return to their core mandate after straying into climate and DEI bs. So the White House definitely has their attention right now lol.

Otherwise your synopsis is entirely plausible.

I wasn't so much of thinking of Macron, but more Paris as the place where ICSID case is to be heard (at least that was my understanding, given I remember reading that the case was to be heard in French). And with the World Bank based in NY and being in the crossfire by the US Treasury, I would say that just adds further pressure to a desire to see a correct outcome.

I was more just thinking that someoone's talked to someone in charge of scheduling somewhere in the admin of ICSID to make sure the right dates all line up.

If at the end of the day if I've read too much into the tealeaves then so be it. Like many on here, I've been living this thing way too closely every day for the past 7 years since I first started investing in AVZ. If this is the endgame, then I'll be glad to see the end of it.

I'm just of the opinion that Nigel and the BOD would be very unlikely to agree to going ahead with the suspension (see May 6 document re the suspension, Clause 7; it's just a proposal, not an agreement) so close to starting the ICSID process unless there was a deal they were happy with and were just waiting for the final pieces out of their control to fall into place (eg. regional peace deal). That's why after seeing that the suspension is in place till the week after the peace deal signing is planned, it lead me to the opinion that it's all over bar the final signatures, and that they have managed to get the best price possible as well, whatever that may be (and it is being kept under very close wraps, most likely with NDAs etc). Remember, Rio's purchase of Arcadium was out of the blue, especially with the price, so no matter how much we might like to wish for whispers, I have no doubt it is a closely guarded secret. Having the threat of ICSID continuation is just there to make sure it all goes through - hopefully.

May the doors from financial purgatory be opened soon. We will all know in a month........

 

[Cumquat Cap]

Whether the ordinary shareholders vote or not is ultimately irrelevant. Nigel can’t make this decision alone. He needs the approval of the major shareholders, especially the Chinese, who hold the largest stake.

Not sure exactly where your allegiances lie but I am sure Nigel will not be consulting corrupt Chinese entities before agreeing to a sale. Levers to avoid a vote in the first place as large Chinese holders would vote down a $5 sale price. Hopefully a strong price tabled that’s accepted by board only

 

[Scoota30]

** SPECULATION **

I have tried to stay healthily skeptical over the last few months as to not jump the gun but I had some pineapple juice this morning which caused an out of body experience so now I'm fully on the "deal is done" bandwagon

• Kobold & AVZ non binding letter to rapidly progress and agreement
• ICSID now pushed to the week after the peace deal
• Zijin (manono lithium) posting that mining development and operations to begin from July 1st.... 1 week after ICSID starts date
• To get a deal done this quickly, China will have to get some piece of the pie

I can't see how after the peace deal, there will be a separate deal for us, 1 week won't allow it and we'd have to push the ICSID out again. IMO it's packaged up with a big bow tie as part of the peace deal, giving Trump a free reign to announce to the world "we will develop the largest lithium mine in the world". If the DRC pull out now, it will look BAD for the US, so our ICSID case is also being used as leverage by the US IMO.

So long as we get a fair price (look at the 2 trillion dollar deals with the middle east recently, I think we will be paid fairly regardless of some news articles stating differently), everyone in this scenario is a winner. We all wanted to use ICSID as leverage and it seems like it worked.

Hats off to Trump, Marco Rubio, Boulos, the rest of the US and dare I say it... Congratulations to Nigel and the team. I think it's time to pay out this bet early because it's already done time to get the bubbly ready.

If I'm wrong, I shall be exiled by TSE in July

 

[Samus]

** SPECULATION **

I have tried to stay healthily skeptical over the last few months as to not jump the gun but I had some pineapple juice this morning which caused an out of body experience so now I'm fully on the "deal is done" bandwagon

• Kobold & AVZ non binding letter to rapidly progress and agreement
• ICSID now pushed to the week after the peace deal
• Zijin (manono lithium) posting that mining development and operations to begin from July 1st.... 1 week after ICSID starts date
• To get a deal done this quickly, China will have to get some piece of the pie

I can't see how after the peace deal, there will be a separate deal for us, 1 week won't allow it and we'd have to push the ICSID out again. IMO it's packaged up with a big bow tie as part of the peace deal, giving Trump a free reign to announce to the world "we will develop the largest lithium mine in the world". If the DRC pull out now, it will look BAD for the US, so our ICSID case is also being used as leverage by the US IMO.

So long as we get a fair price (look at the 2 trillion dollar deals with the middle east recently, I think we will be paid fairly regardless of some news articles stating differently), everyone in this scenario is a winner. We all wanted to use ICSID as leverage and it seems like it worked.

Hats off to Trump, Marco Rubio, Boulos, the rest of the US and dare I say it... Congratulations to Nigel and the team. I think it's time to pay out this bet early because it's already done time to get the bubbly ready.

If I'm wrong, I shall be exiled by TSE in July

Let me play the devils advocate for you here scoota so you can remain as a valued member of TSE without any shame if things don't go the way you're thinking.

People keep claiming a deal is done without any evidence whatsoever to show for it.
It's difficult to buy in to this mentality as an AVZ investor who's been put through the wringer for years. We've had many high hopes over a number of years and none of them has eventuated to anything.
Kobold put out an opportunistic statement which has been down played and barely seems to be backed by our BOD who are beholden to (CCP) CATH. The chinese entity (CCP) has already stolen half of our deposit and now probably have us by the balls.
DRC government haven't responded as far as we know and they've never honoured anything they've said to AVZ other than to revoke our tenement illegally. We've got a 1 month delay to ICSID proceedings with the specifics unknown.
It seems foolish to settle in to a state of contentment with the scant evidence we've got before us. Plus given any of this actually transpires to some conclusion we still need to see the price.
It's an ongoing shitshow with zero word from the BOD to say otherwise.
I remain hopeful as an investor but we can only go by the facts, not heresay not bullshit and not hopium.
Pinning any hopes on trump announcing our deal with fanfare seems like a weird whimsical fantasy and linking the plight of AVZ with the peace process for Rwanda and DRC a bit of a stretch. Imo.

I'll be fucking extatic to be proven wrong though, believe me! I'd probably piss my pants with laughter if trump said that and become one of his fans.

 

[Scoota30]

Let me play the devils advocate for you here scoota so you can remain as a valued member of TSE without any shame if things don't go the way you're thinking.

People keep claiming a deal is done without any evidence whatsoever to show for it.
It's difficult to buy in to this mentality as an AVZ investor who's been put through the wringer for years. We've had many high hopes over a number of years and none of them has eventuated to anything.
Kobold put out an opportunistic statement which has been down played and barely seems to be backed by our BOD who are beholden to (CCP) CATH. The chinese entity (CCP) has already stolen half of our deposit and now probably have us by the balls.
DRC government haven't responded as far as we know and they've never honoured anything they've said to AVZ other than to revoke our tenement illegally. We've got a 1 month delay to ICSID proceedings with the specifics unknown.
It seems foolish to settle in to a state of contentment with the scant evidence we've got before us. Plus given any of this actually transpires to some conclusion we still need to see the price.
It's an ongoing shitshow with zero word from the BOD to say otherwise.
I remain hopeful as an investor but we can only go by the facts, not heresay not bullshit and not hopium.
Pinning any hopes on trump announcing our deal with fanfare seems like a weird whimsical fantasy and linking the plight of AVZ with the peace process for Rwanda and DRC a bit of a stretch. Imo.

I'll be fucking extatic to be proven wrong though, believe me! I'd probably piss my pants with laughter if trump said that and become one of his fans.

Devil's advocate noted, I don't make my call lightly though. Regardless of all the shitshow and corruption that's happened, every single one of us have a price and would be happy to walk away and be done with it so long as the price is right - which is what I think has happened. Nigel has been in the US on and off for months now and he wants to see the backend of this as much as we do.

My call still holds, I'll be enjoying the next 4 weeks mentally with a positive attitude but am prepared in the event that I'm wrong.

 

[Samus]

Devil's advocate noted, I don't make my call lightly though. Regardless of all the shitshow and corruption that's happened, every single one of us have a price and would be happy to walk away and be done with it so long as the price is right - which is what I think has happened. Nigel has been in the US on and off for months now and he wants to see the backend of this as much as we do.

My call still holds, I'll be enjoying the next 4 weeks mentally with a positive attitude but am prepared in the event that I'm wrong.

Let's hope you are right my friend.

 

[Mute22]

I don't see what the big deal with suspension is? It's a month? A month for what appears to be the most consequential chance for reparations we've had in years.

We still have the chance to continue action. Which after the peace deal will only strengthen our position. US investors ain't touching Manono with AVZ hanging over it.

reparation
/ˌrɛpəˈreɪʃn/
noun
the action of making amends for a wrong one has done, by providing payment or other assistance to those who have been wronged

I honestly don’t believe we’ll ever see true reparations or meaningful compensation for the three years of harm we’ve endured. At best, we might receive a fair return based on the in-ground value of a resource we rightfully own.

But let’s be real. that won’t come close to addressing the intense personal and financial impact this has had on all of us and out families. I won’t dive too deep into personal details, but I’ve run the numbers. The added interest costs, settling for a subpar housing situation (which now means paying stamp duty again just to upgrade if we get enough out of this), missed business opportunities, even putting off starting a family - the emotional toll has been massive.

For me, genuine reparations would require at least 2-3x our all-time high. That’s the level of restitution it would take to even begin feeling like justice has been served.

Anything less is just a return on investment but I doubt we will ever see true reparations for harm done.

 

[Dave Evans]

WOW, what happened to all the posts that got us to page 3000 and now they’ve disappeared talking us back a page

Quick @Winenut get you’re history of AVZ here quick smart, you deserve this auspicious occasion. Here, I’ll start it off for you

Mar 21, 2025
#56,458

"The tale of AVZ"...... (Part 1)

Once upon a time AVZ aquired a majority share interest in Dathcom

WOW!!!......let's go mining!

Some even prepared new clothes and adornments

Then a green witch appeared

and things started to go wrong

another bad actor entered the scene....or more accurately never left it

and really messed things up...

to be continued......

 

[Dave Evans]

Mar 21, 2025
#56,459

"The tale of AVZ"...... (Part 2)

later a bad actor tried to renege on their deal

but AVZ said "no the deal is done you should have used a better calculator"........

the bad actor was not happy

Then more shitfuckery emerged....

Another bad actor tried to sell a 15% interest in Dathcom for a pittance and a bunch of tasty snacks

AVZ shareholders were outraged.....

there were scenes and confrontations at the AGM in 2022

AVZ shareholders wanted answers......but they didn't really get much

a man called Felix promised to help the DRC and Manono

people thought the good guys had arrived

Many thought the mining licence was "imminent"

to be continued......

 

[PhatCatz]

5 bucks minimum.

 

[JNRB]

I know nothing is done until the ink is dry but people seem to be letting their minds run away a bit with the current status of the deal with Kobold.

1. The statement from AVZ & Kobold doesn't talk about 'progressing' or 'advancing' discussions on a deal. The wording is "working with all possible speed to conclude the commercial agreement".

2. Nigel would not have signed such a joint statement unless there was already a basic value framework in place that was acceptable.

This is not speculation or wishful thinking anymore, nor is it something we should be unnecessarily doubting. Yes the company has clarified that the agreement so far is still 'non-binding' but they also signed the statement saying they're working with speed to conclude it.

So our default position now is the deal with Kobold is happening, until something changes that disrupts that. Sure there are still hurdles, but I for one don't think Kobold haggling over the price is going to be one of them. They are buying a global geopolitically important resource that is so big it will be able to influence market pricing for its resource - not buying a second-hand toaster at a flea market.

They know what they're getting and they know what the value is*,
and so do we.


(*$12 )

 

[Doc]

Why have so many posts disappeared??

 

[Samus]

Why have so many post disappeared??

Did the troll get banned?

 

[Dave Evans]

Did the troll get banned?

Which one and where’s Winenuts

 

[Strongman]

Seems we got a little tit for tat war goin on here.

 

[Samus]

Which one and where’s Winenuts

I dunno I have them all on ignore (except winenuts, the legend himself.)

 

[Samus]

Something weird is going on, it's probably Yaseen and it's many aliases causing havoc again.

 

[Mute22]

Client Challenge

DR Congo eyes US minerals deal tied to peace in rebel-hit east by end of June
William Wallis and Camilla Hodgson in London

Published AN HOUR AGO

Officials from the Democratic Republic of Congo are optimistic they can reach a deal with Washington next month to secure US investment in critical minerals alongside support to end a Rwandan-backed rebellion in the country’s east.

The scope of Kinshasa’s negotiations with Washington is hugely ambitious, and combines giving US companies access to lithium, cobalt and coltan deposits in return for investment in infrastructure and mines, with efforts to draw a line under 30 years of conflict in regions bordering Rwanda.

Two people close to the negotiations said an investment deal with the US and separate peace deal with Rwanda were possible “by the end of June”. But potential stumbling blocks remain substantial.

The US hopes to regain a foothold in a mining sector that has been dominated by China since Beijing reached its own multibillion dollar mines-for-infrastructure deal with Kinshasa in 2008.

The DR Congo’s mining minister Kizito Pakabomba told the Financial Times that an agreement with the US would help “diversify our partnerships”, reducing the country’s dependence on China for the exploitation of its vast mineral riches.

A deal could also lay the foundations for co-operation between the DR Congo and its neighbours including Rwanda, in the export and processing of metals.

But in a sign of tensions underlying the talks, DR Congo officials said there could be no question of sanctioning of Rwandan involvement in Congo’s minerals trade until M23 rebels retreated from a swath of territory they have occupied since January, and the Rwandan troops allegedly supporting them withdraw across the border.

Rwanda has long been accused of using security concerns across its border as a smokescreen for the plunder of Congolese resources including coltan used in mobile phones, and gold. Rwandan president Paul Kagame’s government denies supporting the M23 rebels, while claiming that his army is defending itself against hostile forces.

People close to the talks said that Kigali saw the negotiations as an opportunity to legitimise access to Congolese resources and attract US investment to expand its own existing metals processing. But before considering any such prospect, Kinshasa wants first to regain control of territory, including the cities of Goma and Bukavu, that it has lost.

“It would be very difficult for us to accept that particularly because there are still Rwandan troops in the [DR Congo] and there are still M23 troops committing abuses,” said a senior Congolese official who asked not to be named.

Yolande Makolo, Kagame’s spokesperson, said “Rwanda’s defensive measures along” the border, “are necessary as long as threats and the cause of insecurity in the DRC persists”. More important than the date of any peace agreement, she said, was for it to “deal with the root causes and be long-lasting”.

But Makolo added that Rwanda was “optimistic” about the approach the administration of US President Donald Trump was taking.

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“Economic collaboration between the countries of the region that leverages our respective strengths, and benefits all our people is what we ourselves have always envisioned for this part of the continent. This is why we are committed to this process,” she said.

A person close to the talks said Massad Boulos, Trump’s Africa envoy and father-in-law to his daughter Tiffany, had called for another round of negotiations in Washington next week to iron out some of the differences.

Boulos, who met Congolese President Félix Tshisekedi in Kinshasa and Kagame in Kigali in April, said last week he had provided both parties with the first draft of a peace agreement.

A spokesperson for the US State Department said: “Both participants have committed to work to find peaceful resolutions to the issues driving the conflict in eastern DRC, and to introduce greater transparency to natural resource supply chains. Respect for each country’s territorial integrity is at the centre of the process.”