AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
- Start date
Rechnerhand
Regular
The agreement is a “declaration of principles”, which a diplomatic source described as “very broad objectives to work towards”.
Both sides will finalise the specifics in a few months and then sign the agreement, the source said.
Dave Evans
Regular
So a few months away
Erik Prince of the Blackwater Group also said in an interview recently that it would take about 3 months to assess how things are going regarding peace between Rwanda, the M23 militia, the DRC and other groups fighting over minerals in eastern DRC
For those that don’t know, his Blackwater Group is being paid hundreds of millions to provide security over there. I had a link to his recorded interview but it’s mysteriously disappeared off the site so here’s a link to it straight from Erik Prince’s X profile in his Media which hopefully works
Seeing that peace in the east can’t be guaranteed for at least a few months, I’m settled in now in hoping we go the full ICC and ICSID route. Better than having blow ins like KoBold trying to do deals with the corrupt DRC and make us a low-ball offer
We know the US Is desperate to get Manono, just give us a good offer or fuck off
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If we take current events out of the equation and go back only a few months the positive vibe and confidence was around secured funding , CATH backing and the building pressure of the fast approaching ICSID date . Now we have secured funding ,additional major players showing their hand and the building pressure of a fast approaching ICSID date . If the US/DRC security deal will eventually be rubber stamped , I don't see why Felix would want the ICSID case to commence .So a few months away
Erik Prince of the Blackwater Group also said in an interview recently that it would take about 3 months to assess how things are going regarding peace between Rwanda, the M23 militia, the DRC and other groups fighting over minerals in eastern DRC
For those that don’t know, his Blackwater Group is being paid hundreds of millions to provide security over there. I had a link to his recorded interview but it’s mysteriously disappeared off the site so here’s a link to it straight from Erik Prince’s X profile in his Media which hopefully works
Seeing that peace in the east can’t be guaranteed for at least a few months, I’m settled in now in hoping we go the full ICC and ICSID route. Better than having blow ins like KoBold trying to do deals with the corrupt DRC and make us a low-ball offer
We know the US Is desperate to get Manono, just give us a good offer or fuck off
Spikerama
Regular
What's the date of this tweet?
Dave Evans
Regular
Well in my view Wombat, CATH gave us the $20million (US dollars no less) to fight the cases in arbitration, they also proposed a JV partnership and proposed an arrangement where they pay for the project’s development. CATH also offered us an option to purchase up to 49% in a lithium hydroxide or carbonate conversion plant built by them. Remember CATH is in partnership with CATL, the world’s biggest lithium battery manufacturer.
What have KoBold offered us, fuck all. They’re mouthing off all over the place about how great they are and how they are negotiating with the DRC. The only mention they give us is a questionable reference to us being in a legal dispute.
With the help of the DRC, they illegally tried to access our core library without AVZ’s permission, and they have shown they are desperate to get ownership of Manono but won’t come out with any sort of reasonable offer.
It’s absolutely laughable to suggest that the US wants to develop the Lobito Corridor and bring peace as an act of benevolence, they are just desperate for the critical minerals and Roche Dure’s 842million tonnes of 1.61% Lithium Oxide
They were no where to be found when we were looking to secure litigation funding but once CATH gave it to us KoBold came scurrying out of the woodwork with bold statements talking themselves up.
Personally, I don’t trust KoBold and think we should go through the litigation process to strengthen our position and force all those fuckers to make an offer AVZ shareholders think is fair
And yet still not a peep from China or Zijin Mining, which makes me suspicious about the provenance of this statement.
In late 2024, Zijin communicated to its shareholders that in 2025, it expects to invest billions in global acquisitions as part of its aggressive global expansion strategy.
In Jan 2025, Zijin bought the controlling stake in Zangge Mining for approximately 13.7 billion yuan ($US1.9 billion). Zangge Mining has potassium, copper and significant Li brine assets in Tibet.
In 2025, Zijin also acquired the Akyem gold Project in Ghana for approximately $US1 billion, and the the La Arena mine in Peru for $US245 million.
I hope Zijin has retained some cash because at some point it needs to pony-up and compensate AVZ appropriately if it wants to maintain its foot-hold on CDL and other peripheral assets.
Zijin has a tough choice to make; either cough up prior to ICSID deliberations, or cough up later after AVZ and DLA Piper expose the DRC's snake-pit of graft and corruption, and Zijin gets caught in the backwash.
Cheers
F
Well said and exactly my thoughts.
Below are some of my opinions.
It’s great we have public alncowledgement from KoBold and Rio for that matter of interest in Manono. Now the following is only based on public information…. What isn’t great is it seems they are negotiating with the DRC government. No acknowledgement that Nigel is “in the room” during these discussions. Also I was always suspect of the Locke funding and just my own opinion is that the terms were awful and they are in bed with Kobold. Give AVZ a shit offer to live another day, it drags out beyond the agreement, AVZ can’t pay back the requirements, Locke takes Manono as collateral and I would bet my left nut that Kobold would come out of the shadows and acquires it from Locke for a bag of chips.
Also my opinion is that CATH would have been well aware of these developments from KoBold (the desire to acquire more so than my speculation above) and why they ponied up a decent counter offer. If Locke funding happened there is NO chance CATH get their hands on Manono. Providing funding to AVZ still keeps them in the game as a partner at the very least.
Also another thing to consider is that the US/DRC protection for minerals deals go beyond Manono. In the grand scheme of things Manono, and whilst it’s the best lithium deposit on the planet and will have a role in global lithium pricing, there are potentially trillions in other commodities that are more important than Lithium such as copper, cobalt, nickel and REEs which are much harder to bring to market than lithium which is much more abundant. But again that’s just my POV and not dismissing Mananos role going forward. I just think there are other just as important if not more for the USA to get their hands on. But you never say no to Manono if it’s up for grabs
It’s absolutely laughable to suggest that the US wants to develop the Lobito Corridor and bring peace as an act of benevolence, they are just desperate for the critical minerals and Roche Dure’s 842million tonnes of 1.61% Lithium Oxide
Yep , fair post and the articles below just emphasises how desperate the US equation is regards to critical minerals.
How Trump dealt himself a dud hand on rare earths
China now dominates the entire rare earths ecosystem, refining around 90 per cent of all coveted elements. It leaves Trump's America particularly vulnerable, as the Albanese government proposes a national stockpile.
Immediate Measures to Increase American Mineral Production
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including section 301 of title 3, United
It certainly explains the critical mineral hunt the Trump administration has been hell bent on pursuing in recent months ( UKRAINE, GREENLAND, AFRICA / DRC )
Its a pretty simple scenario for me, if the US ( KOBALD )wants Manono and hence compete with China in the lithium space, pay fair price, dont tight arse cause their critical mineral future is on the line and Manono can certainly help them out big time!
I also believe KOBALD should be trying to TO Manono in its entirety ( CDL included ), as we all know CDL is purported to be 3 times larger than RD , allowing China to control that side makes no sense to me, it wont change the equation, China will still dominate the lithium space !
What better way to cut Chyna at its knees by controlling the lot.
In the mean time, i agree........ happy to go to arbitration and see those cunties ( Cominiere / DRC govt / Zijin / Dathomir ) shamed plus establish what a fair compensation payout looks like to form a base as to what Kobald should be paying to the 21000 long time suffering AVZ shareholders.
How many days to go now @Spikerama ?
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Frank
Top 20
KoBold Metals wants to invest billions of dollars in DRC mines
The US mining exploration company KoBold Metals, supported by Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos, aims to become a major player in the mining sector in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC).According to the Financial Times, the company plans to inject billions of dollars to exploit the country’s natural resources.
Heading towards cobalt, copper and lithium
Benjamin Katabuka, the new CEO of KoBold in the DRC, said the company wants to “see big” in a country that dominates global cobalt and African copper production.
KoBold expects to obtain exploration permits for these two strategic metals, but also for lithium, whose reserves remain underexploited in the DRC.
Rebalancing Chinese Influence
The announcement comes at a time when geopolitical tensions over critical minerals are intensifying, especially between the US and China.
Many Congolese mines are now under Chinese control, a situation that the Congolese government is seeking to rebalance by attracting more Western investors.
Kinshasa and Washington discuss mining pact
KoBold’s interest in the DRC coincides with discussions between Kinshasa and Washington on a strategic minerals agreement. President Félix Tshisekedi had proposed a pact in the United States in exchange for security support in the fight against M23.
Benjamin Katabuka claims that KoBold will apply “high standards” for its operations in the DRC, despite the known legal risks.
An innovative technological approach
KoBold Metals uses artificial intelligence to detect untapped mineral deposits. The company currently conducts more than 60 projects across four continents.
In Africa, it is already present in the country, where it made a historical discovery of copper in 2024, and has recently settled in Namibia to explore deposits of lithium and nickel.
One billion dollars surveyed
To finance its expansion, KoBold raised 537 million dollars in his last round of funding.
Its investors include Breakthrough Energy Ventures, Earthshot Ventures, Equinor, Mitsubishi Corporation and Standard Investments.
Since its inception, KoBold has raised nearly a billion dollars for its global projects.
KoBold Metals veut investir des milliards de dollars dans les mines de la RDC - MINES.CD - Premier média congolais du secteur minier
La société américaine d’exploration minière KoBold Metals, soutenue par Bill Gates et Jeff Bezos, ambitionne de devenir un acteur majeur du secteur minier en République démocratique du Congo (RDC). Selon le Financial Times, l’entreprise prévoit d’injecter plusieurs milliards de dollars pour...
mines.cd
You and I have both criticised KoBold, while I think many others see them as white knights.
I've nothing to add to your excellent analysis, but would just comment that all of the US remarks around security for minerals reminds of Zelensky in the Oval Office being insulted and threatened on precisely that opaque ' deal '.
There, no mention was made about any holders of exploration or mining permits and their rights.
It was a given that USA would just take what they could bully Ukraine into conceding.
The only difference here is that FT does not have the balls or desire of VZ to fight for a just outcome.
AVZ holders need to stop deluding themselves that any alleged ' suitor ' will willingly pay top dollar for control. That is not generally how business works.
If it does happen, it will be on the eve of ICSID at the very earliest and will be based on geopolitics.
It is also possibly in KoBold's interest that we lose.
Be aware that when you're reposting X, instagram etc comments around KoBold and US government actions. you are validating US interests.
These nterests are not necessarily AVZ interests.
NF and BoD will be very well aware of all of this and will be attempting to play these alleged suitors off against each other.
In my mind, the issue is how much US and China are prepared to compromise with each other and each take part of Manono?
FT would probably be happy with such an outcome.
Be sure that neither side is interested in right or fair compensation for AVZ, despite the corporate bs. Does anyone seriously think that they want to give AVZ a single cent more than they need to?
I suspect that Trump wants it all ( for a ' win ' ).
If that is the case, to continue the Zelensky analogy, AVZ probably holds better cards.
Whatever is in the works, there's very little chance of ICSID and other court cases not running for months or, possibly, years.
Manono is simply too large for both US or China to be happy with less than 100%.
Retrobyte
Hates a beer
Dave Evans
Regular
I know there are plenty of shareholders who don’t like the “hopeful” attitude, but in saying that, my never say die attitude leans toward the project being in too high a demand to let it drag out for any more years in arbitration. CATH are so desperate for our lithium they gave us US$20million to proceed with the litigation and we know the US also want it.
Anyway I hope all shareholders keep fighting on and hope this might inspire AVZ shareholders to keep fighting. Though I wasn’t there, a few people from my high school that I know were there, including the big bloke they try and throw in the paddy wagon
so hope you and others can find some relevance in itAlso, as far as KoBold, they already have a JV with BHP and could partner with RIO who are the most experienced miners in the world, so no reason not to other than to get their own investor mates in on the action.
Now stop fucken replying, I stopped posting for a reason and I don’t need more reasons to start again (PS, Sorry mate, not personal, just sick of being on forums)
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Some people have expressed concern about Kobold negotiating directly with DRC and Nigel/AVZ being left out; the worry being they are trying to bypass AVZ to get a better deal.
IMO:
1. If AVZ is not in the discussion, it's not because Kobols are trying to reduce the compensation price, rather it's that compensating AVZ is not one of their unknowns still needing to be resolved. They know they can make AVZ a suitable compensation offer. The main concern for them now is ensuring the DRC gives them the conditions to make that offer worth it.
2. Further to above, Kobold wants good conditions for investments beyond just Manono. Manono may end up being their first and biggest but still only part. So from that perspective why would AVZ be part of those negotiations.
3. We don't actually know what meetings AVZ is/isn't a part of atm. We DO know AVZ has been in the US to discuss project progression.
IMO:
1. If AVZ is not in the discussion, it's not because Kobols are trying to reduce the compensation price, rather it's that compensating AVZ is not one of their unknowns still needing to be resolved. They know they can make AVZ a suitable compensation offer. The main concern for them now is ensuring the DRC gives them the conditions to make that offer worth it.
2. Further to above, Kobold wants good conditions for investments beyond just Manono. Manono may end up being their first and biggest but still only part. So from that perspective why would AVZ be part of those negotiations.
3. We don't actually know what meetings AVZ is/isn't a part of atm. We DO know AVZ has been in the US to discuss project progression.
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