AVZ Discussion 2022

ptlas

Regular
No in all seriousness it's pretty cool

I'd never imagined just how far I could get without a personality :rolleyes:

I did lapse for my (and the wife's) birthday a little over a week or so ago

Started with a glass of Pol Roger (my absolute recommendation for a starting point anytime you choose to fall off a wagon)

Then onto Italian whites and reds over dinner

Next morning completely rediscovered what it's like to have an actual hangover

They truly are fucking terrible things when you're no longer twenty something!

There..... transmission complete

No rant thank you Mr Ptlas :ROFLMAO::oops:
I'm transitioning.
Call me Beryl
 
  • Haha
  • Love
Reactions: 5 users
I stole this off Rattlerock over on the HotShitter in response to some scumbag lowlife.

"You say First Quantum wasn’t paid, that’s false. The $1.25 billion was a settlement negotiated between ENRC, the company that took over the mine, and First Quantum, not a judgment against the DRC. The deal was finalized in March 2012, and the payment was made in full. As a result of this settlement, First Quantum dropped its arbitration case against the DRC."

So DRC does have history when it comes to a 3rd party getting them out of the sh1t re arbitration . Replace ENRC with RIO/Kobold . Replace $1.25billion with $4 billion USD .


View attachment 83046
Claim was $12b USD

Getting 10.4% of what it was worth wasn’t a victory imo
 
  • Like
  • Haha
  • Fire
Reactions: 15 users

wombat74

Top 20
Claim was $12b USD

Getting 10.4% of what it was worth wasn’t a victory imo
Ok I see First Quantum sued both Eurasian Natural Resourse Corporation ( ENRC) and the DRC . DRC took the project off First Quantum and gave it to ENRC .

"City analysts said ENRC's action had alienated shareholders and several big investors, including Standard Life, sold their holdings in protest."

"The agreement was struck on the basis that First Quantum drops all legal claims against the DRC and ENRC; the DRC has also pledged to terminate its claims against First Quantum."

Would RIO or Kobold do the same ? Shaft AVZ to get into bed with DRC Corruption and together with the DRC be sued at the ICSID by AVZ . A case they know they will lose . Now before ENRC did the dirty together with the DRC on First Quantum , did ENRC state First Quantum needs to be Appropriately Compensated ? I'm guessing not . The ICSID can still set the price if an agreement can't be reached with AVZ.

"The agreement was struck on the basis that First Quantum drops all legal claims against the DRC and ENRC."

They might be filthy grubby Corrupt C--ts, but they don't like those legal claims against them it would seem .
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Thinking
Reactions: 16 users
To be honest, kinda sad to see them buying china drones instead of USA drones
Whoever announcing sweeping aid cuts for a "review of transparency and efficiency" from my point of view will not sell any other items into this area before the expected deal (minerals for safety/peace) will be finalized. Therefore and because of clock is ticking my guess is that "the story" written by Felix starts also with signals to others and in this regard it is plausible to show M23 what Felix is willing to do besides we'll see whether or not FADRC is able or needed to let them fly just one time in the future. (BTW - what dies first in a war?)

many advance praises --> 5 unexpected global champions for African peace and prosperity
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

Spikerama

Regular
I'm transitioning.
Call me Beryl
Pastl is probably more on brand.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 2 users

Winenut

Go AVZ!
  • Haha
Reactions: 9 users

Frank

Top 20
1745498086969.png


1745497902470.png


1745497948940.png

 
  • Like
Reactions: 10 users

BEISHA

Top 20
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users

pow4ade

Regular

Fascinating revelations by Trump ally Erik Prince on the conflict in the east. Says Rwanda 'invaded' a sovereign country with mechanised brigrades and infantry supported by tanks and armed Turkish drones, likening it to Putins annexation of Crimea. Provides some insight on Washington's take on the overall African situation and the need to counter Russian and Chinese expansion.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users

Jazz

Regular
IMG_7040.jpeg
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 49 users

Jongo

Emerged
Ok I see First Quantum sued both Eurasian Natural Resourse Corporation ( ENRC) and the DRC . DRC took the project off First Quantum and gave it to ENRC .

"City analysts said ENRC's action had alienated shareholders and several big investors, including Standard Life, sold their holdings in protest."

"The agreement was struck on the basis that First Quantum drops all legal claims against the DRC and ENRC; the DRC has also pledged to terminate its claims against First Quantum."

Would RIO or Kobold do the same ? Shaft AVZ to get into bed with DRC Corruption and together with the DRC be sued at the ICSID by AVZ . A case they know they will lose . Now before ENRC did the dirty together with the DRC on First Quantum , did ENRC state First Quantum needs to be Appropriately Compensated ? I'm guessing not . The ICSID can still set the price if an agreement can't be reached with AVZ.

"The agreement was struck on the basis that First Quantum drops all legal claims against the DRC and ENRC."

They might be filthy grubby Corrupt C--ts, but they don't like those legal claims against them it would seem .
This is a good point that you made, and one that I had not considered before.

"Would RIO or Kobold do the same ? Shaft AVZ to get into bed with DRC Corruption and together with the DRC be sued at the ICSID by AVZ . A case they know they will lose"
 

Winenut

Go AVZ!
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users

aon

Regular
All those "quotes and analogies" my friend are VERY TRUE in a 'fair world' but this is not a fair world imo.

We AVZ (aon) warriors that won't lie down to rest our weary bones, until such time that the wrong has been put right, also have a cross to bare, and that cross comes at a different cost to those that carry it so far as health is concerned, like AVZs S...S..w it will simply have to wait.

With aprx 21,000 investors I cannot begin to imagine how many have paid a huge price, for the Fa. boys gruby lies and spin, simply so he, his family, and his motely goons and grubs, could continue to gorge themselves at the expense of the innocent and just people of the DRC and not to forget it's faithful investors.

Keep marching, keep smiling, 😃 plenty of time ahead to lie down and sleep.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 21 users

Mute22

Regular

I wonder what this 'Minerals deal' discussion looks like?

'Don't fuck with us while we make money in Manono or we will push your shit in'.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 5 users

Flight996

Regular
OK, straight to the elephant in the room:

For some time I have been concerned about the likelihood that the DRC will invoke a sovereign immunity defense at ICSID in order to frustrate the process and ultimately not pony-up a single dollar regardless of the amount awarded to AVZ.

So I asked my AI assistant to clarify whether mining rights and tenements are either commercial or sovereign in nature.

Summary: International arbitrators generally view mining rights and tenements as protected private commercial interests under international law, rather than sovereign rights, particularly when assessing sovereign immunity claims related to arbitration awards.

This response considered the following:

1. Commercial Nature of Mining Agreements
Arbitrators typically classify mining rights as acta jure gestionis (commercial acts) rather than acta jure imperii (sovereign acts). This distinction is critical because restrictive immunity doctrines (applied by most arbitration-friendly jurisdictions) exclude commercial activities from immunity protections. Even if the DRC asserts absolute immunity domestically (as seen in the FG Hemisphere case), international tribunals focus on the commercial character of the underlying contracts and arbitration agreements.

2. Waiver Through Arbitration Clauses
By agreeing to ICC or ICSID arbitration, states are generally deemed to have waived immunity from the arbitration process itself. However, immunity from enforcement remains a separate issue. Tribunals emphasize that arbitration agreements constitute an implicit waiver of jurisdictional immunity, as seen in the AVZ-Cominière ICC case where the DRC entity was held liable for breaching emergency measures. ICSID awards benefit from additional protections under the ICSID Convention (Article 54), requiring member states to enforce awards as binding domestic court judgments.

3. Enforcement Challenges
While tribunals reject immunity defenses during merits proceedings, enforcement against state assets often hinges on locating non-immune commercial assets. Mining tenements and related revenue streams might be targeted if they are not used for sovereign purposes. Recent cases like AVZ v. DRC demonstrate that tribunals will uphold penalties for non-compliance with arbitral orders, irrespective of domestic immunity doctrines.

4. Recent Trends in Mining Disputes
The AVZ ICSID case (2023) highlights the growing use of investment treaties to counter expropriation. Australia-DRC bilateral investment protections (if applicable) or multilateral treaties could provide AVZ with additional grounds to override immunity claims.

Tribunals increasingly treat mining licenses as protected investments under instruments like the ICSID Convention, requiring states to compensate for unlawful revocation

5. Key Precedents
  • FG Hemisphere v. DRC: Confirmed absolute immunity applies in Hong Kong courts but reinforced that immunity does not affect arbitral jurisdiction
  • AVZ ICC Award (2025): Ordered Cominière (DRC state entity) to pay €39.1 million, rejecting attempts to circumvent arbitration through sovereign immunity defenses.
Cheers
F
 
  • Like
  • Thinking
Reactions: 16 users

wombat74

Top 20
OK, straight to the elephant in the room:

For some time I have been concerned about the likelihood that the DRC will invoke a sovereign immunity defense at ICSID in order to frustrate the process and ultimately not pony-up a single dollar regardless of the amount awarded to AVZ.

So I asked my AI assistant to clarify whether mining rights and tenements are either commercial or sovereign in nature.

Summary: International arbitrators generally view mining rights and tenements as protected private commercial interests under international law, rather than sovereign rights, particularly when assessing sovereign immunity claims related to arbitration awards.

This response considered the following:

1. Commercial Nature of Mining Agreements
Arbitrators typically classify mining rights as acta jure gestionis (commercial acts) rather than acta jure imperii (sovereign acts). This distinction is critical because restrictive immunity doctrines (applied by most arbitration-friendly jurisdictions) exclude commercial activities from immunity protections. Even if the DRC asserts absolute immunity domestically (as seen in the FG Hemisphere case), international tribunals focus on the commercial character of the underlying contracts and arbitration agreements.

2. Waiver Through Arbitration Clauses
By agreeing to ICC or ICSID arbitration, states are generally deemed to have waived immunity from the arbitration process itself. However, immunity from enforcement remains a separate issue. Tribunals emphasize that arbitration agreements constitute an implicit waiver of jurisdictional immunity, as seen in the AVZ-Cominière ICC case where the DRC entity was held liable for breaching emergency measures. ICSID awards benefit from additional protections under the ICSID Convention (Article 54), requiring member states to enforce awards as binding domestic court judgments.

3. Enforcement Challenges
While tribunals reject immunity defenses during merits proceedings, enforcement against state assets often hinges on locating non-immune commercial assets. Mining tenements and related revenue streams might be targeted if they are not used for sovereign purposes. Recent cases like AVZ v. DRC demonstrate that tribunals will uphold penalties for non-compliance with arbitral orders, irrespective of domestic immunity doctrines.

4. Recent Trends in Mining Disputes
The AVZ ICSID case (2023) highlights the growing use of investment treaties to counter expropriation. Australia-DRC bilateral investment protections (if applicable) or multilateral treaties could provide AVZ with additional grounds to override immunity claims.

Tribunals increasingly treat mining licenses as protected investments under instruments like the ICSID Convention, requiring states to compensate for unlawful revocation

5. Key Precedents
  • FG Hemisphere v. DRC: Confirmed absolute immunity applies in Hong Kong courts but reinforced that immunity does not affect arbitral jurisdiction
  • AVZ ICC Award (2025): Ordered Cominière (DRC state entity) to pay €39.1 million, rejecting attempts to circumvent arbitration through sovereign immunity defenses.
Cheers
F
So in other words the DRC are pushing sh1t up hill with a pointy stick . Someone is going to have to pay AVZ $$$.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 12 users

Frank

Top 20

I wonder what this 'Minerals deal' discussion looks like?

'Don't fuck with us while we make money in Manono or we will push your shit in'.

Minerals Partnership Agreement:

Rwanda Says It Is Also in Discussions with the United States


1745554312913.png


Rwanda told Reuters on Wednesday that it was in discussions with the United States regarding a possible minerals agreement.

This announcement comes amid similar ongoing negotiations between Washington and the Democratic Republic of Congo, Rwanda's neighbor.

Asked by Reuters whether there were any discussions between Kigali and Washington regarding a mineral access agreement, a Rwandan government spokeswoman confirmed:

"Yes, this is part of the discussions we are having with the United States," without providing further details.

Meanwhile, the United States is continuing negotiations with the DRC regarding a possible "minerals for security" agreement.

The Congolese government accuses Rwandan President Paul Kagame of supporting the Tutsi rebels of the M23, who have taken control of a vast area in the east of the country, a region rich in minerals but plagued by serious violence.

mediacongo



Titan Top 5 !.png


DRC peace process: Qatar welcomes progress made and encourages Kinshasa and the M23 to continue dialogue

1745554893586.png


In a message published on his X account, Dr. Majed Al Ansari, advisor to the Qatari Prime Minister and spokesperson for the Qatari Ministry of Foreign Affairs, welcomed recent efforts at dialogue between the Congolese government and the M23/AFC rebel movement.

1745555610444.png


Hmmm !.jpg



#Hmmm.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Thinking
Reactions: 13 users

Spikerama

Regular
Oh, good heavens. We've hit thirty seven.

avz-icsid-final-countdown.netlify.app_ (24).png
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 16 users

Spikerama

Regular
This is for @Flexi since you had the brilliant idea of combining them for twitter, I made you a special one that you can use.


Two Face Janus.jpg
 
  • Like
  • Fire
Reactions: 15 users
Top Bottom