But there's no tax avoidance going on.... in fact it may even trigger a CGT event for each selling entity depending on the $.
AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
- Start date
Oh, I hope I didn't misunderstand your comment.
If you are thinking of a one-way transaction in order for your SMSF to simply acquire the asset at market value from an unrelated party...good to go.
However, if it's a two-way transaction (below) then the ATO may smite thee, depending on its view on the purpose of the transactions:
- an individual sells an asset (unlisted AVZ shares) to an unrelated party, and
- the unrelated party back-sells the same asset (unlisted AVZ shares) to the original person's SMSF...then the ATO may see this as a contrived scheme to avoid tax, regardless of whether some CGT is collected in the process.
F
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You sound like my Accountant
give me a sale and I'll be grateful to discuss tax obligations, until then paying tax is the furthest thing on my mind. What I took out of the series of us-africa media hub tweets that Frank posted is that negotiations are ongoing and going ok but actually getting a deal done could be a long way off.
KentCStrait
Member
So much bad and incorrect tax advice—on an offer that hasn’t even been made yet!
Assuming an offer is made, and we as shareholders actually accept it (I’m still highly skeptical we won’t be screwed over yet again), the most likely outcome is a share buyback to allow shareholders to realise their capital gains discount.
Assuming an offer is made, and we as shareholders actually accept it (I’m still highly skeptical we won’t be screwed over yet again), the most likely outcome is a share buyback to allow shareholders to realise their capital gains discount.
Well that’s the decision for Kobild or whoever wants it. Offer a decent amount now and assume some risk or risk AVZ doing very well at ICSID and being awarded 10+B and setting the floor price. Once ICSID begins AVZ should see it through
oxxa23
Regular
Please explain how capital buyback enables cgt discount? If they have the cash, let's just say $5bn, that will have already been due to a taxable transaction... in which case anything above the $226m of issued capital would need to come back as dividend wouldnit not? A share bauback will still leave all the retained profits...
Yes a share buy back would enable crystallising of losses also, but, not cgt discount...
Avz would have to do a deal where shareholders shares are either purchased or taken script for script to enable any cgt relief... (other than crystallising losses).
I long for a cgt event, but, feel it is unlikely... avz won't want to give Chinese or mmga maggots a vote on share sale or project sale... therefore I think it will need to be structured some other way... likewise, due to catl, don't think we'll receive the ML deliberately... both make be feel a taxable event wil be the result... not a cgt event for shareholders.... of course I could be wrong... just my opinion and gut feel
Azzler
Top 20
Surely they could at least try for a share sale vote and have a contingency back up ready to go if the maggots manage to vote it down.
Frank
Top 20
*In other News, I see where they're still banging on about the Corridor
“The development of the corridors must be accompanied by an integrated and sustainable vision.
I dream of a rail network from Greater Katanga to the Grand Kasai, the Grand Bandundu, Kinshasa, the central Kongo to the deep-water port of Banana,” said Félix Tshisekedi, stressing that “this backbone is a priority for our country, as it will strengthen internal connectivity and open up new economic opportunities.”
“In order to ensure the effectiveness and rigorous follow-up of these initiatives, I instruct the Government, under the authority of the Prime Minister, in close cooperation with my cabinet to set up a working group dedicated to coordinating and monitoring activities related to the Corridors,” he said before commenting on the formatting of a controlled urban planning favourable to economic development.
“Beyond infrastructure, we need to ensure harmonious development. Corridors must be accompanied by controlled urban planning with high-quality residential, commercial and public services, SMEs and Pmi to boost the local economy and create jobs,” he explained.
The Lobito Corridor a unique opportunity to capitalise
In addition, President Tshisekedi has returned to the corridor project under preparation between the DRC, Angola and zambia as a regional economic triggering model.
“A concrete example of this ambition is the Lobito Corridor, which I have been strongly practicing.
This project, the result of exemplary cooperation between the DRC, zambia and Angola, with the support of international partners, aims to build 1739 km of railways, including 427 km in our territory interconnected to a regional road network.
At the Lobito corridor summit, in the presence of the Heads of State of three countries and the former President of the United States, I recalled that this project goes beyond mere logistics.
This is a unique opportunity to strengthen regional integration by streamlining trade, boosting economic transformation by valuing our mineral and agricultural resources, and improving living conditions by developing modern infrastructure and community-based services,” he said.
“The Lobito corridor is a promise of the future for our entrepreneurs, our farmers and our youth. They will find opportunities for innovation and growth,” he also said.
For him, these corridors are not mere transport routes, they are vital routes for cultural economic integration, linking economic centres to regional and continental markets.
“They promote not only the smooth flow of goods and people, but above all the local transformation of our agricultural, mining and industrial products, as well as their flow to destinations such as the ports of the Atlantic and the Indian Ocean.
They attract investment, stimulate job creation and pave the way for modern governance for the well-being of our people.”
The President of the Concrete Expo, Jean Bamanisa, stressed that the question is no longer whether the DRC is rich, but how to transport, value and market effectively.
mediacongo
*To remind,
With Brussels now also on board, western efforts to counter Chinese influence over critical minerals are gathering pace.
9th Concrete Expedition: the development of the corridors must be accompanied by an integrated and sustainable vision
The development of the corridors must be accompanied by an integrated and sustainable vision, for better connectivity of the provinces of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, according to the Congolese President, at the opening, Thursday, 17 April 2025, of the 9th edition of the “Expo-Béton” forum in Lubumbashi, Haut-Katanga.“The development of the corridors must be accompanied by an integrated and sustainable vision.
I dream of a rail network from Greater Katanga to the Grand Kasai, the Grand Bandundu, Kinshasa, the central Kongo to the deep-water port of Banana,” said Félix Tshisekedi, stressing that “this backbone is a priority for our country, as it will strengthen internal connectivity and open up new economic opportunities.”
“In order to ensure the effectiveness and rigorous follow-up of these initiatives, I instruct the Government, under the authority of the Prime Minister, in close cooperation with my cabinet to set up a working group dedicated to coordinating and monitoring activities related to the Corridors,” he said before commenting on the formatting of a controlled urban planning favourable to economic development.
“Beyond infrastructure, we need to ensure harmonious development. Corridors must be accompanied by controlled urban planning with high-quality residential, commercial and public services, SMEs and Pmi to boost the local economy and create jobs,” he explained.
The Lobito Corridor a unique opportunity to capitalise
In addition, President Tshisekedi has returned to the corridor project under preparation between the DRC, Angola and zambia as a regional economic triggering model.
“A concrete example of this ambition is the Lobito Corridor, which I have been strongly practicing.
This project, the result of exemplary cooperation between the DRC, zambia and Angola, with the support of international partners, aims to build 1739 km of railways, including 427 km in our territory interconnected to a regional road network.
At the Lobito corridor summit, in the presence of the Heads of State of three countries and the former President of the United States, I recalled that this project goes beyond mere logistics.
This is a unique opportunity to strengthen regional integration by streamlining trade, boosting economic transformation by valuing our mineral and agricultural resources, and improving living conditions by developing modern infrastructure and community-based services,” he said.
“The Lobito corridor is a promise of the future for our entrepreneurs, our farmers and our youth. They will find opportunities for innovation and growth,” he also said.
For him, these corridors are not mere transport routes, they are vital routes for cultural economic integration, linking economic centres to regional and continental markets.
“They promote not only the smooth flow of goods and people, but above all the local transformation of our agricultural, mining and industrial products, as well as their flow to destinations such as the ports of the Atlantic and the Indian Ocean.
They attract investment, stimulate job creation and pave the way for modern governance for the well-being of our people.”
The President of the Concrete Expo, Jean Bamanisa, stressed that the question is no longer whether the DRC is rich, but how to transport, value and market effectively.
mediacongo
*To remind,
Lobito Corridor’s extension to Zambia backed by US and EU
Washington has added to its support for the Lobito Corridor by backing a new spur to north-western Zambia.With Brussels now also on board, western efforts to counter Chinese influence over critical minerals are gathering pace.
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oxxa23
Regular
Hope so
That may be true. But if a value is established via an offer, any advantages found by shuffling holdings around may not be available.
From my basic understanding, it is arguable that the share value right now is anything from 1 cent (thanks to MMGA), through to $12. Seems this variance may be used to holders advantage.
KentCStrait
Member
The capital gains tax (CGT) discount applies when you sell an asset you’ve held for more than 12 months — including shares. In a share buyback, if the payment you receive is classified as a return of capital (rather than a dividend), then it’s treated like any other sale for CGT purposes.
So, if you’ve held the shares for over a year, any capital gain you make — that is, the difference between your original purchase price and the buyback amount — may be eligible for the 50% CGT discount (for individuals). This means only half the gain is added to your taxable income.
oxxa23
Regular
Yes, I understand that, but, it still doesn't clear a companies retained profits.... it will need to pay any profits above the $226m of issued capital as dividends, or at least upon wind up... a company can't just bank a shitload of profits, pay tax, then just do a capital buyback and walk away... the ato wants the shareholders to pay tax at their marginal rates....not get cgt discount on the whole lot...
We have $226m only of issued capital...
There is absolutely times companies do capital buy backs...I agree... but, I don't believe we will see any from avz that is for the purpose of cgt discount...
Trump is a complete joke, well so are 99% of the worlds politicians, but come on this guy
“The Congo in Africa. Many, many people come from the Congo. I don’t know what that is, but they came from the Congo.”
https://x.com/Out5p0ken/status/1912963468941992244
“The Congo in Africa. Many, many people come from the Congo. I don’t know what that is, but they came from the Congo.”
https://x.com/Out5p0ken/status/1912963468941992244
Frank
Top 20
So Horse before Cart, Offer before Money, Dollars before TAX
Something like that
Then something like
To Help Pay my Massive CGT Bill
Pay my Financial Advisor
Pay my Accountant
Pay my Therapist
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