so AVZ essentially giving up the 15%? or at least negotiated outcome somewhere.
AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
- Start date
Unfortunately, I feel that CATH and Zijin will form a joint venture (possibly taking DRC share of the pie due to "misleading Zijin" as compo instead of ICC) and will work with AVZ...
Why I'm worried about the controlling interest of the whole deposit if AVZ have what they have now (plus the CATH Deal if ML is granted) and lets speculate that everything else goes to the chinese (including the 10% DRC have).
Zijin will not go away and if anything, this is a movement that will strengthen their ties to the company using the "good guy" CATH. Watch what happens over the coming months.
Why I'm worried about the controlling interest of the whole deposit if AVZ have what they have now (plus the CATH Deal if ML is granted) and lets speculate that everything else goes to the chinese (including the 10% DRC have).
Zijin will not go away and if anything, this is a movement that will strengthen their ties to the company using the "good guy" CATH. Watch what happens over the coming months.
Maybe this is more to the TRUTH of it ALL...imo
AVZ has proven that as the lead in the project they were not able to progress forward, this was due to all the detractors and all the roadblocks which popped up at every single turn. We were never going to move this forward as the lead, China was always going to obtain the control, no matter how long it took. The reason this has stalled is because until now China had not gained the control.
This deal gives Pei control of the project. Through this transaction he is getting 30.5% of the project (of which we owned 60% undisputed). So effectively AVZ has sold more than 50% of their share in the project. The 15% with Cong/Dathomir still needs to be resolved, plus the 15% first right of refusal is still arguably on the table somewhere.
The .5% is very interesting and where the clues lie as to how this ends up...
On completion of the TIA (and prior to the resolution of Dathomir + First right of refusal) AVZ will own 29.5% of the project. Pei will own 30.5%
Pei is now going to negotiate the ML and resolve the outstanding issues. So what will Pei get in addition to his 30.5%? Well he clearly wants control, and probably only has a mandate to negotiate on the basis that he does has the control over the project. So will he go after our 15% from Dathomir? Nigel must stay strong on this. That is ours, AVZ did a capital raise in Australia for that, we paid the transaction fees in accordance with the law and the deal terms. The we had the money returned, only to then be stolen from our farking bank account. That 15% is OURS, don't bend the knee on that Nigel.
If Pei needs control, give him the first right of refusal on the other 15%.
Then we have 44.5%, Pei has 45% and the DRC 10%.
I do believe the deal at present is good for us. It de-risks us big time, sure we lose some equity, but let's face it, we had nothing, we were on the canvas. The count was at 9.... Locke Funding was brutal, and meant court cases for years. Nightmare... At least here we have optionality. We can fund our share of development with with the $259m, or we can borrow from Pei at 9.00% and repay via profits, or we can raise money and fund via alternative means.
The key here is that the project gets fast tracked by Pei. Let's face it, we would take years and years to move it along. No ASX company can honestly be listed on the ASX and run a project in DRC. Too may anti corruption and bribery rules need to be broken just to operate in country.
In my opinion, even if Pei resolves the Dathomir issue, Nigel should NOT give up that 15%. A final standing of 29.5% would be a pretty big pummeling for the board. Let's hope we can get the extra 15% or at least 10% of that 15%, so we end up at 39.5% - 44.5%. Let's then sit back and let China do all the work and collect some divies in a few years.
Don't be mistaken people, we don't have control of the project anymore, but given the way this has played out to date I don't think that that is a bad thing. Let's get this thing going...
cruiser51
Top 20
Ever tried a gin tonic to relax?
After feeling relaxed, you can take a gin tonic to celebrate some good news for a change.
After the celebration gin tonic, you wouldn't have a clue why you were worried.
On another note, some idiot wants ugly cancer photos on gin bottles and other alcohol containing containers to warn us.
I reckon after a couple of glasses people will say 'Wazzat?', pointing at the picture.
Just imagine Jesus during the Last Supper pouring wine out of a bottle with a cancer warning.
They would have to change Leonardo da Vinci's painting.
Azzler
Top 20
It's a copy paste of a HC post, cant remember who. (Widdon or something IIRC)View attachment 75731
Tolate post now deleted seems a bit odd. Posted with the wrong account perhaps? Or is TSE Tolate a different person to HC Tolate? hmmm
It's 100% Not Tolate from HC, its 99% Der Geist, using that name because he knows it annoys us.
Please delete your post too, or Moderate it to remove his post, and report all their posts in future.
Samus
Top 20
Is fucking toilet still here folks?
I've ignored that cunt!
Anyway, I'm still alive if some of you were worried
Not sure what to make of the announcement but the terms of the locke deal seemed less than ideal.
Hopefully it's a positive and the start of some real progress finally.
Thanks all for the info I've been skimming over, been a bit distracted of late but I liked the good posts even if I didn't hit the like button.
All the rubbish from the emerged chinese stooges I didn't like, those scum can get fucked.
I've ignored that cunt!
Anyway, I'm still alive if some of you were worried
Not sure what to make of the announcement but the terms of the locke deal seemed less than ideal.
Hopefully it's a positive and the start of some real progress finally.
Thanks all for the info I've been skimming over, been a bit distracted of late but I liked the good posts even if I didn't hit the like button.
All the rubbish from the emerged chinese stooges I didn't like, those scum can get fucked.
It appears Tolate / phatcatz are one of the same, with a bit of shane mixed in the equation....View attachment 75731
Tolate post now deleted seems a bit odd. Posted with the wrong account perhaps? Or is TSE Tolate a different person to HC Tolate? hmmm
Cath development is great news for the majority but somehow negativity creeps in with the above.....
And apparently they are holders of AVZ....
Hmmm
Apologies, I've just been burnt by the LLL aggressive takeover. I do have a tendency to be pessimistic in my life unfortunately.
I have been a very, VERY long-term holder and have a million reasons to try to calm down. I will continue to read the information presented here. But I hope this all comes together the way it should (given our position).
I have been here since almost the beginning on TSE (when the mass migration occurred) but don't post much - usually since I'm pessimistic leaning.
Hoping 2025 is the year we unlock some decent value for shareholders.
EDIT: I can assure you I have no connection to Shane, Tolate, de Geist, Klaus or whatever. I have always been positive about the BoD given the circumstances they face.
I have been a very, VERY long-term holder and have a million reasons to try to calm down. I will continue to read the information presented here. But I hope this all comes together the way it should (given our position).
I have been here since almost the beginning on TSE (when the mass migration occurred) but don't post much - usually since I'm pessimistic leaning.
Hoping 2025 is the year we unlock some decent value for shareholders.
EDIT: I can assure you I have no connection to Shane, Tolate, de Geist, Klaus or whatever. I have always been positive about the BoD given the circumstances they face.
As i said in a previous post, 3 months ago AVZ prospects looked grim with lack of funds, you certainly had every right to be pessimistic back then, but since then AVZ " acquired " Locke funding, which no doubt precipitated the CATH deal and all of a sudden AVZ prospects of getting out of this mess has exponentially improved, so as @Carlos Danger often states......
Go on, let yourself loose!
Anyway, great to see discussions involving AVZ future prospects, not doom and gloom corruption , despair adnauseum.
great to see @obe wan get in the discussion more prevalently !
And for anyone who thinks Cath may get ultimate control out of this restructured agreement with AVZ.........you are deluded !
AVZ havnt fought the hard fight for over 3 years to get bent over !
DLA PIPER lawyers would be all over this agreement to ensure that would never happen.
imo
great to see @obe wan get in the discussion more prevalently !
And for anyone who thinks Cath may get ultimate control out of this restructured agreement with AVZ.........you are deluded !
AVZ havnt fought the hard fight for over 3 years to get bent over !
DLA PIPER lawyers would be all over this agreement to ensure that would never happen.
imo
cruiser51
Top 20
Yeah the kunt is a bit like the poison gift which keeps on giving.Is fucking toilet still here folks?
I've ignored that cunt!
Anyway, I'm still alive if some of you were worried
Not sure what to make of the announcement but the terms of the locke deal seemed less than ideal.
Hopefully it's a positive and the start of some real progress finally.
Thanks all for the info I've been skimming over, been a bit distracted of late but I liked the good posts even if I didn't hit the like button.
All the rubbish from the emerged chinese stooges I didn't like, those scum can get fucked.
Xerof
Flaming 1967
Yeah, well I agree CATH don’t get control but I’m now doubting my assertion on what % of GLH needs to be issued, as I’ve only looked at the current 75% position. So I’m going to STFU until there’s some clarification next week
Carlos Danger
Top 20
75% - 30.5% = 44.5% for AVZ
A key question will be while we may have legal control of the project as our 75% will officially need to vote as one block and we will retain majority of GLH under the deal do we have actual effective control anymore at 44.5% of Manono considering the regulatory and financial / lithium processing knowledge leverage of our partners?
Cominiere are under no obligation to sell the other 15% and could be funded by Zijin as we are by CATH
Or that 15% could go to the DRC government giving them 25%
Pretty sure DRC 10% free carried doesn’t come with voting rights but I might be wrong about that
Either way that would leave on an indirect basis AVZ at 44.5% vs CATH / DRC + Maybe Cominiere at 45.5% (49.5% AVZ vs 50.5% the others of the possible available voting rights)
Or 44.5% AVZ vs 55.5% the others if the DRC gov free carried 10% has voting rights
We will always have the power to legally veto things as I see it but CATH / DRC do now appear to be at least ‘indirectly’ in control as a way out of this quagmire imo
Last edited:
EV Enthusiast
Member
Hi Fellas, I am Whiddon3 over on the chopper - these are my views I posted over there. Obviously we all only know what was in the announcement but my take is as follows.
Happy New Year SH's. Great way to kick off 2025 with some positive developments..
AVZ has proven that as the lead in the project they were not able to progress forward, this was due to all the detractors and all the roadblocks which popped up at every single turn. We were never going to move this forward as the lead, China was always going to obtain the control, no matter how long it took. The reason this has stalled is because until now China had not gained the control.
This deal gives Pei control of the project. Through this transaction he is getting 30.5% of the project (of which we owned 60% undisputed). So effectively AVZ has sold more than 50% of their share in the project. The 15% with Cong/Dathomir still needs to be resolved, plus the 15% first right of refusal is still arguably on the table somewhere.
The .5% is very interesting and where the clues lie as to how this ends up...
On completion of the TIA (and prior to the resolution of Dathomir + First right of refusal) AVZ will own 29.5% of the project. Pei will own 30.5%
Pei is now going to negotiate the ML and resolve the outstanding issues. So what will Pei get in addition to his 30.5%? Well he clearly wants control, and probably only has a mandate to negotiate on the basis that he does has the control over the project. So will he go after our 15% from Dathomir? Nigel must stay strong on this. That is ours, AVZ did a capital raise in Australia for that, we paid the transaction fees in accordance with the law and the deal terms. The we had the money returned, only to then be stolen from our farking bank account. That 15% is OURS, don't bend the knee on that Nigel.
If Pei needs control, give him the first right of refusal on the other 15%.
Then we have 44.5%, Pei has 45% and the DRC 10%.
I do believe the deal at present is good for us. It de-risks us big time, sure we lose some equity, but let's face it, we had nothing, we were on the canvas. The count was at 9.... Locke Funding was brutal, and meant court cases for years. Nightmare... At least here we have optionality. We can fund our share of development with with the $259m, or we can borrow from Pei at 9.00% and repay via profits, or we can raise money and fund via alternative means.
The key here is that the project gets fast tracked by Pei. Let's face it, we would take years and years to move it along. No ASX company can honestly be listed on the ASX and run a project in DRC. Too may anti corruption and bribery rules need to be broken just to operate in country.
In my opinion, even if Pei resolves the Dathomir issue, Nigel should NOT give up that 15%. A final standing of 29.5% would be a pretty big pummeling for the board. Let's hope we can get the extra 15% or at least 10% of that 15%, so we end up at 39.5% - 44.5%. Let's then sit back and let China do all the work and collect some divies in a few years.
Don't be mistaken people, we don't have control of the project anymore, but given the way this has played out to date I don't think that that is a bad thing. Let's get this thing going...
Happy New Year SH's. Great way to kick off 2025 with some positive developments..
AVZ has proven that as the lead in the project they were not able to progress forward, this was due to all the detractors and all the roadblocks which popped up at every single turn. We were never going to move this forward as the lead, China was always going to obtain the control, no matter how long it took. The reason this has stalled is because until now China had not gained the control.
This deal gives Pei control of the project. Through this transaction he is getting 30.5% of the project (of which we owned 60% undisputed). So effectively AVZ has sold more than 50% of their share in the project. The 15% with Cong/Dathomir still needs to be resolved, plus the 15% first right of refusal is still arguably on the table somewhere.
The .5% is very interesting and where the clues lie as to how this ends up...
On completion of the TIA (and prior to the resolution of Dathomir + First right of refusal) AVZ will own 29.5% of the project. Pei will own 30.5%
Pei is now going to negotiate the ML and resolve the outstanding issues. So what will Pei get in addition to his 30.5%? Well he clearly wants control, and probably only has a mandate to negotiate on the basis that he does has the control over the project. So will he go after our 15% from Dathomir? Nigel must stay strong on this. That is ours, AVZ did a capital raise in Australia for that, we paid the transaction fees in accordance with the law and the deal terms. The we had the money returned, only to then be stolen from our farking bank account. That 15% is OURS, don't bend the knee on that Nigel.
If Pei needs control, give him the first right of refusal on the other 15%.
Then we have 44.5%, Pei has 45% and the DRC 10%.
I do believe the deal at present is good for us. It de-risks us big time, sure we lose some equity, but let's face it, we had nothing, we were on the canvas. The count was at 9.... Locke Funding was brutal, and meant court cases for years. Nightmare... At least here we have optionality. We can fund our share of development with with the $259m, or we can borrow from Pei at 9.00% and repay via profits, or we can raise money and fund via alternative means.
The key here is that the project gets fast tracked by Pei. Let's face it, we would take years and years to move it along. No ASX company can honestly be listed on the ASX and run a project in DRC. Too may anti corruption and bribery rules need to be broken just to operate in country.
In my opinion, even if Pei resolves the Dathomir issue, Nigel should NOT give up that 15%. A final standing of 29.5% would be a pretty big pummeling for the board. Let's hope we can get the extra 15% or at least 10% of that 15%, so we end up at 39.5% - 44.5%. Let's then sit back and let China do all the work and collect some divies in a few years.
Don't be mistaken people, we don't have control of the project anymore, but given the way this has played out to date I don't think that that is a bad thing. Let's get this thing going...
Re: Restructured Transaction Implementation Agreement and Joint Venture with Suzhou CATH Energy Technologies (CATH).
As we all know, CATH is a partnership between Contemporary Amperex Technology Co. Limited (CATL) and Pei Zhenhua (also called Zhen Hua Pei). Unfortunately, I could not find publicly available information on the percentage split.
It seems that Pei Zhenhua is a major shareholder on CATL (7.32%), and is also a major shareholder in Yibin Tianyi Lithium Industry Co, which manufactures battery-grade lithuim hydroxide. CATL is one of Yibin Tianyi's major customers, and also owns 10% of Yibin Tianyi.
Me thinks it was a very astute move by CATH (Pei + CATL) to lock-in new arrangements at pretty much the low-point of the lithium price cycle.
What this means for AVZ is still to be worked through. However, there are many moving parts to these new arrangements, which I don't fully understand, including the potential permutations or the extent to which we may have sold our souls to the Chinese.
Tim will tell.
As we all know, CATH is a partnership between Contemporary Amperex Technology Co. Limited (CATL) and Pei Zhenhua (also called Zhen Hua Pei). Unfortunately, I could not find publicly available information on the percentage split.
It seems that Pei Zhenhua is a major shareholder on CATL (7.32%), and is also a major shareholder in Yibin Tianyi Lithium Industry Co, which manufactures battery-grade lithuim hydroxide. CATL is one of Yibin Tianyi's major customers, and also owns 10% of Yibin Tianyi.
Me thinks it was a very astute move by CATH (Pei + CATL) to lock-in new arrangements at pretty much the low-point of the lithium price cycle.
What this means for AVZ is still to be worked through. However, there are many moving parts to these new arrangements, which I don't fully understand, including the potential permutations or the extent to which we may have sold our souls to the Chinese.
Tim will tell.
Azzler
Top 20
IIRC, there is clause in the origional JV whereby they are required to sell down to 10%, which then goes to the government.
Azzler
Top 20
Hmm not really, If AVZ has majority in GLH, then it's still 75% Voting power for AVZ.
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