AVZ Discussion 2022

[Dazmac66]

Reading chaper two of the charter I respectfully disagree. ICSID offers services for the resolution of international disputes, primarily between investors and States. ICSID's proceedings generally take place at its HQ Washington, D.C.

ICSID provides arbitration and conciliation services to resolve disputes between a contracting State and foreign investors from another contracting State. We are the foreign investors, and the DRC is the contracting State.

So we go through this process, receive a favourable ruling and then it goes back to to the shonky courts in the DRC for execution of the verdict? Well that will fucking do me! What would be the point? Not saying you are wrong - just seems pointless.

 

[Roon]

So we go through this process, receive a favourable ruling and then it goes back to to the shonky courts in the DRC for execution of the verdict? Well that will fucking do me! What would be the point? Not saying you are wrong - just seems pointless.

Actually on more reading it does seem that there's an out. Refusal to recognise and enforce an ICSID award would result in the violation of Articles 53 and 54 by the refusing State

If these Articles are violated by the state and national court of the contracting country, thus failing to comply with the award, the other party can seek to have the pecuniary obligations recognized and enforced in the courts of any ICSID Member State as though it were a final judgment of that State’s courts (Article 54(1) of the ICSID Convention).

So if the DRC don't comply sounds like we can seek to have the obligations recognized in the US after all and ensure any award is delivered. In a roundabout manner.

Apologies F and others for going in circles, just went down the rabbit hole of legalese. Can close this topic out now on a happy ending! good to know anyway.

 

[Scoota30]

Still to this day I wonder what was talked about over the phone during this conversation.

 

[Carlos Danger]

So we go through this process, receive a favourable ruling and then it goes back to to the shonky courts in the DRC for execution of the verdict? Well that will fucking do me! What would be the point? Not saying you are wrong - just seems pointless.

The point is either Felix sorts this out or the MOU is toast and the DRC will be rat fucked by China forever

 

[ozmacca]

As I've said numerous times, Felix is part of the corruption.
Felix has had 13 months to put his foot down and issue the license. The flaming president of a country can make a decision and have it actioned within 24 hours if they want, not Felix.

This is a perfect master stroke by AVZ. Right before mining week, put on the world stage to see the cluster they are embroiled in.

So IMHO.. it's actually over as we stand, we aren't getting a mining license in the current environment with the current decision makers. This next step is going to force Felix and co to individually respond and make action. Otherwise they'll be coughing up some dollars (NFI where that will come from as they are broker than broke back mountain).

Lets sit back and enjoy life my fellow investors, we just have to wait and see the outcome in the next 30-730 days.

Agree 100%. Felix is up to his eyeballs, you don’t get to that level of government in a place known for such extreme Levels of shitfuckery that we are now (after all this time) not all familiar with without greasing so many palms.

I can’t remember who pointed It out a couple months ago, Hudnut potentially, but if he wasn’t conflicted this shit would’ve been sorted long ago. That gold Rolex is a China special.

There was also another poster (sincere apologies I can’t remember who) who was talking about this being standard practise there , I.e. where chiefs get first pick of everything, and tbh it really resonates .

I just don’t see how we can possibly do business in the DRC after this, whatever rose coloured glasses I put on as a LTH. Am in naïve in thinking the only outcome is win in court and award of cash that we won’t see for many many years? (There was a recent example of that, feel free to point out my altziemers)

 

[pow4ade]

Well well well... I guess this paints a pretty clear picture of where we are at, at least in my opinion. I'd say if we saw any hope if a negotiated outcome with the DRC government, then we wouldn't go down this path. Thus I feel like our management have lost all confidence that we can have this sorted in any other way. Now I guess we won't just have unharmonious relations with the project partners, but also with the government as a whole that has the ability to progress our licence.

Some here will no doubt think otherwise, and thats fair enough, but in my view this feels like last ditch effort to pile on some pressure and international attention. There has been few recent announcements that have lowered my belief of a happy outcome anytime in the near future like this one has. Where is our relationship with the government going from here? Nowhere good, is my belief. Or in more directed terms I get the feeling we be fooked.

Sigh. Also look at the case lengths! Hope this is just a negotiation tactic.

Tend to agree. Negotiating tactic or not, you can't expect to sue a foreign government then go into a mining partnership with said govt thereafter. However it appears Nigel had no other choice. V depressing

 

[Hudnut]

Actually on more reading it does seem that there's an out. Refusal to recognise and enforce an ICSID award would result in the violation of Articles 53 and 54 by the refusing State

If these Articles are violated by the state and national court of the contracting country, thus failing to comply with the award, the other party can seek to have the pecuniary obligations recognized and enforced in the courts of any ICSID Member State as though it were a final judgment of that State’s courts (Article 54(1) of the ICSID Convention).

So if the DRC don't comply sounds like we can seek to have the obligations recognized in the US after all and ensure any award is delivered. In a roundabout manner.

Apologies F and others for going in circles, just went down the rabbit hole of legalese. Can close this topic out now on a happy ending! good to know anyway.

Which would be more time in court to prove they are not complying in a timely manner etc etc I assume.

 

[Onthefm]

Still to this day I wonder what was talked about over the phone during this conversation.

View attachment 38085

Probably went something like: I need a new watch um m um would you like a lithium mine

 

[David Krappenschitz]

I notice Jens, Deboss, qball on HC, all still with the positive “all is well” take.. ‘shorters/trolls gonna eat shit’. Well I’d like to know what they know then cause this announcement isn’t exactly uplifting.
Just blind positivity?

 

[DoubleA]

I notice Jens, Deboss, qball on HC, all still with the positive “all is well” take.. ‘shorters/trolls gonna eat shit’. Well I’d like to know what they know then cause this announcement isn’t exactly uplifting.
Just blind positivity?

If the case was initiated a few months ago we may just be getting the lodgement announcement now as there is a delay (per 9card post).

If the case was initiated months ago then potentially the case iteself is not a recent development. Could have been put in motion soon after the decree cancellation. The most recent development could be that Zijin have been removed from the project as a result of this pressure or other developments. There is a possibility at least.

 

[Flexi]

 

[Flexi]

 

[Flexi]

 

[Flight996]

Reading chaper two of the charter I respectfully disagree. ICSID offers services for the resolution of international disputes, primarily between investors and States. ICSID's proceedings generally take place at its HQ Washington, D.C.

ICSID provides arbitration and conciliation services to resolve disputes between a contracting State and foreign investors from another contracting State. We are the foreign investors, and the DRC is the contracting State.

Mate, I respectfully disagree with your disagree.

The ICSID is located in the USA, so the USA is the contracting state.

Cheers
F

https://icsid.worldbank.org/resources/lists/icsid-3

 

[Uglybob]

I still don't think we all really understand just how brazen all these corrupt clowns. We've seen time and time again how they all think they are untouchable. It's not a one of thing, it's all of them. I'd expect the arrogance is so strong and ingrained at every level that even if they did get an order from their boss, they would still expect to get their kickback first. This system of operating has been running for decades so you can't expect them to just start doing the right thing by western standards. It's not just corruption, its their easy of life and i doubt even the top dog has the power too actually fix it properly.

Either way, this weekend just got very interesting.

 

[Frank]

 

[Frank]

 

[ptlas]

I notice Jens, Deboss, qball on HC, all still with the positive “all is well” take.. ‘shorters/trolls gonna eat shit’. Well I’d like to know what they know then cause this announcement isn’t exactly uplifting.
Just blind positivity?

Same things they've always known.

FUCK ALL

Making shit up or wishful thinking reported as fact or bs from management uncritically reported as fact which allows them to massage their oversized egos.
No better than trolls imo

 

[ptlas]

BTW
Was gonna PM a poster earlier but maybe everybody should be warned.

This is gonna dirty.
You ain't seen nothing yet.

If you're going on twatter or any other media to call these cunts out then do it.
Gloves are off

But that works both ways.
A nice distraction might be to take legal action against some poor soul.
Make sure it's not you..

AVZ's allegations are just that - allegations - and will almost certainly not name specific individuals anyway.

Allegations should probably be more general than aimed at specific individuals.

I might be paranoid, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Be careful.

 

[Pedro]

View attachment 38095



View attachment 38096


View attachment 38097

Same things they've always known.

FUCK ALL

Making shit up or wishful thinking reported as fact or bs from management uncritically reported as fact which allows them to massage their oversized egos.
No better than trolls imo

Honestly one would think this is 'end game'
The rumour mill " until proven "of zijin gone ect shows action is happening.
Play is in motion to tidy this crap up, NOW !
how embarrassing with mining conference pend
ing.
OR DRC becomes China's 3rd largest state behind Beijing and Shanghai with Dim Sum richshaws on every corner, ownership of ridiculous resources and trade embargos by all western countries!
FT jet-setting around spruiking DRC for investment, how pathetic! No individual let alone government is that dumb.
This shit starts wars.