AVZ Discussion 2022

[Mr Inappropriate]

• something else

it's the one where Zijin (JC) take AVZ to task to validate their (illegal) purchase of the 15%, but the first part is to decide whether they actually have the right to do this, as they were not part of the JVA

silly Kunts

Cheers dude.

So this is the one where, assuming we win, we find out that Z have no jurisdiction to take action against us so that action cannot proceed any further. Then everyone looks at each other and says “Now what?”

Is it that one?

#fuckZijin

 

[geo_au]

Interesting video suggests all is not well between china and africa.

 

[tonster66]

Hi Tonster

Exept that Zijin Mining is a Chinese state owned enterprise (SOE). This means that the Chinese government is the beneficial owner, and its activities are ultimately directed by Beijing. Its largest shareholder is Shanghang Minxi Xinghang State-Owned Property Investment Company (Interestingly, the Chinese state gets >30% of its revenue from property sales...just like the Andrews govt in Vic (LOL)).

I don't see evidence of a line in the sand, but just the same shit.

I agree that AVZ will be vindicated, but I think it will be through a negotiated settlement.

It's good to have divergent views.

Cheers
F

I get what you are saying. china wants to play democracy when they want to but ultimately all chinese companies are subordinate to the cjinese government eg. Jack Ma - Alibaba.
Kiki Kienge on the bird writes,
"The Chinese ambassador in #RDC said the contract was between the Congolese government and a group of Chinese companies". Thus the chinese government is distancing itself from chinese companies by using democracy to suit their interests. We know that the chinese control chinese companies, that what communism is about

 

[tonster66]

You had me right up until this....

"Manono will be decided in the ICC as the independent umpire and AVZ will be the victor"

No doubt AVZ will be the victor as everything via documentation / law leads to it, but fuck me, i am hoping the point of the visit to China apart from the other agenda..........was to get THE PARTY FINALLY STARTED at Manono with AVZ ml in hand, before ICC arbitration in July as that will be another major drag on time for everyone concerned, not sure the mental faculties on this forum could cope with much more....

The reason I stated the decision will be made at the ICC because it is independent so the DRC government can allude to this decision when china asks why they didnt get Manono. For me its the election that is playing a big role in decisions at the moment. The chinese are propaganda machines and can influence the election against Felix. If there was no election I think the IGF and Felix would tell china to bugger off.

 

[Xerof]

Cheers dude.

So this is the one where, assuming we we win, we find out that Z have no jurisdiction to take action against us so that action cannot proceed any further. Then everyone looks at each other and says “Now what?”

Is it that one?

#fuckZijin

My understanding is if Z gets told it doesn't have the right to even seek a ruling by ICC, then this case gets dropped.

This would then leave AVZ's attack on Cominiere, which has two parts - a ruling (ideally in our favour) over the dissolution of the JVA, and the legality of Cominiere selling JC the 15%. (see 17 April announcement)

And finally, there's the vexatious claim for damages from Z and C.

Oh, and still have the DATHOMIR case, launched by AVZ

 

[Mr Inappropriate]

My understanding is if Z gets told it doesn't have the right to even seek a ruling by ICC, then this case gets dropped.

This would then leave AVZ's attack on Cominiere, which has two parts - a ruling (ideally in our favour) over the dissolution of the JVA, and the legality of Cominiere selling JC the 15%. (see 17 April announcement)

And finally, there's the vexatious claim for damages from Z and C.

Oh, and still have the DATHOMIR case, launched by AVZ

Thanks again.

I struggle to see how that all comes to a head (i.e. a decision on the ML) any time soon.

 

[Xerof]

Speaking of crickets, no news on the Class action, and nothing on the off market purchases by Deeland

Summary, all bullshit tactics from you know where

 

[9cardomaha]

Which is the ICC hearing is occurring in July?

• The one initiated by AVZ to stop the dissolution of Dathcom?
• The claim by the corrupt ones for $1.6b(?) against AVZ?
• The claim for $500m because Nigel parked in Celestine’s allocated spot?
• Something else?

Oh, do we know why we’ve heard crickets about the MMCS case at the ICC?

I can’t keep up…

So i can update a few for everyone.

• AVZ v Cominiere - The one initiated by AVZ to stop the dissolution of Dathcom? - Emergency Injunction awarded May 2023 validating ICC jurisdiction, timetable to be set by September 2023
• Zijin + Cominiere v AVZ - The claim by the corrupt ones for $1.6b(?) against AVZ? - Jurisdiction hearing in July 2023 (if it is allowed to go forward)
• AVZ v Dathomir - The one initiated by AVZ to tell Cong to fuck off, no sellers remorse allowed - Timetable set by August 2023
• Zijin v AVZ - Jurisdiction hearing in July where ICC tells Zijin to 'go back to China'
• MMCS v Cominiere - Rendering verdict expected to come out in August 2023
• The claim for $500m because Nigel parked in Celestine’s allocated spot? - LOL
• Nothing Else

it's the one where Zijin (JC) take AVZ to task to validate their (illegal) purchase of the 15%, but the first part is to decide whether they actually have the right to do this, as they were not part of the JVA

The second part is correct, the Zijin v AVZ hearing in July is to determine whether the ICC has jurisdiction for the case given Zijin isn't a shareholder. According to JVA you can't initiate an ICC case against a JV member unless you are also a JV member.

The first part needs a small addition: Zijin didn't launch the case to validate the 15% ownership. Even if the ICC decides to hear the case, the ICC only recognizes that Zijin is a JV member but they didn't request an ICC decree or mandate to confirm.

Zijin would then have to go back to the DRC with this ICC recognition and continue the fight locally, or launch another case to validate their 15% similar to AVZ v Dathomir.

Edit: actually no they can't launch another ICC case since they aren't a JV member, so go back to DRC, use ICC as precedence and confirm that they don't have shit

So this is the one where, assuming we we win, we find out that Z have no jurisdiction to take action against us so that action cannot proceed any further. Then everyone looks at each other and says “Now what?”

Is it that one?

#fuckZijin

If ICC rules that it does not have jurisdiction over Zijin v AVZ, this will slam the door in Zijin's face. We will likely submit to have the joint case dismissed since it's basically the AVZ v Cominiere one with Zijin included for shits and giggles.

 

[Winenut]

Speaking of crickets, no news on the Class action, and nothing on the off market purchases by Deeland

Summary, all bullshit tactics from you know where

Thanks for that X

I was going to raise a query on these exact two areas myself today

Cheers

 

[Winenut]

So i can update a few for everyone.

• AVZ v Cominiere - The one initiated by AVZ to stop the dissolution of Dathcom? - Emergency Injunction awarded May 2023 validating ICC jurisdiction, timetable to be set by September 2023
• Zijin + Cominiere v AVZ - The claim by the corrupt ones for $1.6b(?) against AVZ? - Jurisdiction hearing in July 2023 (if it is allowed to go forward)
• AVZ v Dathomir - The one initiated by AVZ to tell Cong to fuck off, no sellers remorse allowed - Timetable set by August 2023
• Zijin v AVZ - Jurisdiction hearing in July where ICC tells Zijin to 'go back to China'
• MMCS v Cominiere - Rendering verdict expected to come out in August 2023
• The claim for $500m because Nigel parked in Celestine’s allocated spot? - LOL
• Nothing Else

The second part is correct, the Zijin v AVZ hearing in July is to determine whether the ICC has jurisdiction for the case given Zijin isn't a shareholder. According to JVA you can't initiate an ICC case against a JV member unless you are also a JV member.

The first part needs a small addition: Zijin didn't launch the case to validate the 15% ownership. Even if the ICC decides to hear the case, the ICC only recognizes that Zijin is a JV member but they didn't request an ICC decree or mandate to confirm.

Zijin would then have to go back to the DRC with this ICC recognition and continue the fight locally, or launch another case to validate their 15% similar to AVZ v Dathomir.

Edit: actually no they can't launch another ICC case since they aren't a JV member, so go back to DRC, use ICC as precedence and confirm that they don't have shit


If ICC rules that it does not have jurisdiction over Zijin v AVZ, this will slam the door in Zijin's face. We will likely submit to have the joint case dismissed since it's basically the AVZ v Cominiere one with Zijin included for shits and giggles.

Top contribution there 9Card

I would think very much appreciated by many here

Cheers!

 

[ptlas]

Interesting video suggests all is not well between china and africa.

Thanks for that.

Near me in Northern Rivers they've bought takeaways/restaurants close to where a large number of Chinese tourists visit.
They then usher them into the place where the language is spoken.and exclude all competition.

They've bought the tour operators aswell to guarantee where the tourists go.
Much of the money for tours stays in PRC and is never declared in Oz.

Same game in Indonesia and presumably everywhere else.

BTW at 4 minutes, what appears to be a Chinese shopkeeper turns around and seemingly points at an item. An African flinches and moves away obvously thinking he's being attacked. Maybe he was.
Reminds me of videos here a few months ago showing African workers being beaten by Chinese in DRC.

 

[wombat74]

So i can update a few for everyone.

• AVZ v Cominiere - The one initiated by AVZ to stop the dissolution of Dathcom? - Emergency Injunction awarded May 2023 validating ICC jurisdiction, timetable to be set by September 2023
• Zijin + Cominiere v AVZ - The claim by the corrupt ones for $1.6b(?) against AVZ? - Jurisdiction hearing in July 2023 (if it is allowed to go forward)
• AVZ v Dathomir - The one initiated by AVZ to tell Cong to fuck off, no sellers remorse allowed - Timetable set by August 2023
• Zijin v AVZ - Jurisdiction hearing in July where ICC tells Zijin to 'go back to China'
• MMCS v Cominiere - Rendering verdict expected to come out in August 2023
• The claim for $500m because Nigel parked in Celestine’s allocated spot? - LOL
• Nothing Else

The second part is correct, the Zijin v AVZ hearing in July is to determine whether the ICC has jurisdiction for the case given Zijin isn't a shareholder. According to JVA you can't initiate an ICC case against a JV member unless you are also a JV member.

The first part needs a small addition: Zijin didn't launch the case to validate the 15% ownership. Even if the ICC decides to hear the case, the ICC only recognizes that Zijin is a JV member but they didn't request an ICC decree or mandate to confirm.

Zijin would then have to go back to the DRC with this ICC recognition and continue the fight locally, or launch another case to validate their 15% similar to AVZ v Dathomir.

Edit: actually no they can't launch another ICC case since they aren't a JV member, so go back to DRC, use ICC as precedence and confirm that they don't have shit


If ICC rules that it does not have jurisdiction over Zijin v AVZ, this will slam the door in Zijin's face. We will likely submit to have the joint case dismissed since it's basically the AVZ v Cominiere one with Zijin included for shits and giggles.

Can Zijin delay the ICC hearing again ?

 

[whales]

So i can update a few for everyone.

• AVZ v Cominiere - The one initiated by AVZ to stop the dissolution of Dathcom? - Emergency Injunction awarded May 2023 validating ICC jurisdiction, timetable to be set by September 2023
• Zijin + Cominiere v AVZ - The claim by the corrupt ones for $1.6b(?) against AVZ? - Jurisdiction hearing in July 2023 (if it is allowed to go forward)
• AVZ v Dathomir - The one initiated by AVZ to tell Cong to fuck off, no sellers remorse allowed - Timetable set by August 2023
• Zijin v AVZ - Jurisdiction hearing in July where ICC tells Zijin to 'go back to China'
• MMCS v Cominiere - Rendering verdict expected to come out in August 2023
• The claim for $500m because Nigel parked in Celestine’s allocated spot? - LOL
• Nothing Else

The second part is correct, the Zijin v AVZ hearing in July is to determine whether the ICC has jurisdiction for the case given Zijin isn't a shareholder. According to JVA you can't initiate an ICC case against a JV member unless you are also a JV member.

The first part needs a small addition: Zijin didn't launch the case to validate the 15% ownership. Even if the ICC decides to hear the case, the ICC only recognizes that Zijin is a JV member but they didn't request an ICC decree or mandate to confirm.

Zijin would then have to go back to the DRC with this ICC recognition and continue the fight locally, or launch another case to validate their 15% similar to AVZ v Dathomir.

Edit: actually no they can't launch another ICC case since they aren't a JV member, so go back to DRC, use ICC as precedence and confirm that they don't have shit


If ICC rules that it does not have jurisdiction over Zijin v AVZ, this will slam the door in Zijin's face. We will likely submit to have the joint case dismissed since it's basically the AVZ v Cominiere one with Zijin included for shits and giggles.

Great Post
What are your thoughts on a take over at a reasonable price to resolve this mess.
Surely Zijin does not want this to proceed to ICC ?

 

[Hudnut]

Great Post
What are your thoughts on a take over at a reasonable price to resolve this mess.
Surely Zijin does not want this to proceed to ICC ?

If they drag out ICC cases long enough, AVZ will run out of cash.

 

[9cardomaha]

Can Zijin delay the ICC hearing again ?

Zijin v AVZ - Zijin did request for additional documentation outside of discovery regarding MM, but this was rejected by the arbitrator (would have extended the first hearing on jurisdiction to about July to provide time for documents to be reviewed etc).

Following this there was a surprise 'schedule conflict with the arbitrator' and it was moved to July anyway....

Zijin could potentially try and delay again, with their legal team using the 'we should wait for outcomes of other cases' before this one, but i'm sure our counsel will tell them to fuck-off. I believe this notion won't be entertained by ICC either, since they raised the case first, so it should go first and since it impacts others, it only makes sense to go first, and then minimize the legal proceedings.

Undoubtedly, there are a lot of different routes Zijin can take to delay, but a lot of it comes down to both sides agreeing, and the arbitrator's decision. Though Zijin can keep submitting requests for bullshit and it could extend by 1-2 weeks at a time from what i understand.

 

[wombat74]

Zijin v AVZ - Zijin did request for additional documentation outside of discovery regarding MM, but this was rejected by the arbitrator (would have extended the first hearing on jurisdiction to about July to provide time for documents to be reviewed etc).

Following this there was a surprise 'schedule conflict with the arbitrator' and it was moved to July anyway....

Zijin could potentially try and delay again, with their legal team using the 'we should wait for outcomes of other cases' before this one, but i'm sure our counsel will tell them to fuck-off. I believe this notion won't be entertained by ICC either, since they raised the case first, so it should go first and since it impacts others, it only makes sense to go first, and then minimize the legal proceedings.

Undoubtedly, there are a lot of different routes Zijin can take to delay, but a lot of it comes down to both sides agreeing, and the arbitrator's decision. Though Zijin can keep submitting requests for bullshit and it could extend by 1-2 weeks at a time from what i understand.

Thanks mate . I think it's safe to assume the Chinese are going to stall this for as long as they can . When do alarm bells go off for us ? Surely we are not asking these questions in September or October . The Chinese first goal one would think is the drag this out to the elections .I'm just hoping Nigel has his plan B ready in place in case . He's going to need some special bull sh1t if we are still in the same situation come the AGM .Or special powers . Like invisible powers . imo

 

[CHB]

Thanks mate . I think it's safe to assume the Chinese are going to stall this for as long as they can . When do alarm bells go off for us ? Surely we are not asking these questions in September or October . The Chinese first goal one would think is the drag this out to the elections .I'm just hoping Nigel has his plan B ready in place in case . He's going to need some special bull sh1t if we are still in the same situation come the AGM .Or special powers . Like invisible powers . imo

Alarm bells for everyone should have been ringing that we've had to go ICC to start with instead of strong government support.

 

[TDITD]

Great Post
What are your thoughts on a take over at a reasonable price to resolve this mess.
Surely Zijin does not want this to proceed to ICC ?

$12

 

[TDITD]

Alarm bells for everyone should have been ringing that we've had to go ICC to start with instead of strong government support.

To be honest the Alarm bells should need replacing by now

 

[geo_au]

"I gotta gree with @cruiser51 and others, $1m donation from China for a disaster of that magnitude, just confirms that they dont give a fuckn shit about the DRC locals welfare, just there for the rape and pillage of minerals for self gain"

Clearly the CCP and its companies don't give a damn about its people, a mine in the north of china collapsed with miners trapped inside. The boss of the mine said it would cost too much to get them out so they were left to die. They more than likely were slave labourers from the prisons or wigars.

China's debt problem could spell the end for Xi jinping.