AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
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9cardomaha
Regular
A couple of points worth discussing:
- I previously flagged the CPC's call that having one company dominate China's battery scene was not in the country's best interest - as our resident retired nun also flagged - this is important to understand that ZJ ownership of the project would be less beneficial to Mr Pei's interests.
- Given the CPC mandate to boost domestic competition in the battery space; ZJ's offtake agreements would be dictated by the government ie a much smaller supply to CATH/CATL.
- With the above in mind, Mr Pei's visit to Perth coupled with the comments we've heard like 'only interested in supply', 'going to 9% but still fronting the $240m', paint a pretty good picture.
- Mr Pei could potentially bankroll us through his own interests as mentioned above, and allow us to weather the storm.
- It is also plausible for CATH to forgo any % in ownership for just supply, negating ROFR in the scenario where ZJ do get a slice.
- While its easy to bash CATH for being silent and Chinese and assume the worst, there's more at play that should be considered.
- The totalitarian state works both ways and can actually impede CATH's plans by positioning ZJ with more control on how to assign offtake.
TDITD
Top 20
I too have posed this question to holders in private. Nothing is stopping CCP from threatening to essentially take away CATLs business in the homeland and handing it to loyalists, therefore possibly fatally injuring CATL.
CATL have maybe been genuine all along but if China.inc comes calling their loyalties will be clear. IMO.
It's then what China.inc want ? Happy with 24% and 1st option on lithium feed, or do they want a hostile TO ?
9cardomaha
Regular
This point exactly - CPC can dictate what CATH must do with 24% and what ZJ must do, which are all detrimental to CATH's domestic plans.
CPC cannot dictate what AVZ does, so i'd assume ZJ have government support, while CATH is being asked standdown - but what Mr Pei does with his money while still having CPC oversight is less clear cut than what a company like CATH must do when the CPC beckons.
Is it ok to come out and play now ?
Has the wicked multi niccer finally gone ?
Gosh i hope so....
Cause i didnt really appreciate being put in the....
and have to listen to.....
Just in case, better drop this interesting video for fear of being modded again for OFFTOPIC......
It may of been shared before, but doesnt hurt to learn the facts again according to our main man Marius Mihigo
Has the wicked multi niccer finally gone ?
Gosh i hope so....
Cause i didnt really appreciate being put in the....
and have to listen to.....
Just in case, better drop this interesting video for fear of being modded again for OFFTOPIC......
It may of been shared before, but doesnt hurt to learn the facts again according to our main man Marius Mihigo
Xerof
Flaming 1967
Does anyone know if Michael J Kavanagh, an experienced journalist, who works for Bloomberg, and seems to write quite a number of articles about DRC matters, is on the ground in Kinshasa?
Asking for a friend who noticed that Sir Les DG, JR, ES etc etchas tweeted him suggesting he write an op-ed on the DATHCOM imbroglio
Asking for a friend who noticed that Sir Les DG, JR, ES etc etchas tweeted him suggesting he write an op-ed on the DATHCOM imbroglio
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cruiser51
Top 20
Let's say at the end of the day it is the Chinese Communist Party which pulls the strings in the background.
To believe they are blind to the events in the world is being silly.
They will try to get the best deal possible, if it means Zijin not getting a geurnsey, so be it, they have more irons in the fire.
FT will work his hardest for the DRC, and AVZ is boxing in this game against these powerhouses.
In my eyes AVZ did the right thing and played squeaky clean by the rules, something the arseholes have to beat.
Carlos Danger
Top 20
Dathcom need to cede 10% to the DRC government under Article 71 (d) of the mining code
Cominiere are committed to being the party within Dathcom to cede the 10% to the DRC government under Article 5.1 (i) of the Dathcom JVA
Looks very much like the US version of Chinas BRI............but better.
The problem i have is, the US relationship with Africa / DRC is problematic at best according to what i read....
That was the tone in late 2022, the quick take away was the previous regime of Donald Trump left a bitter taste with the African continent with alot of disparaging remarks and total neglect of relations.........no surprise there
However, the Biden regime is working hard to mend fences and bridge the gap....
PBS News Hour | The changing relationship between U.S., African nations | Season 2023
The changing relationship between the U.S. and African nations
So it will be interesting to see how things play out with this US initiative.
AFRICA/ DRC has plenty of focus on them and now it appears, they have plenty of options outside of China.
Lets hope they are smart and dont put all their eggs in one basket with China, who quietly dont give a shit about the people, just want to rape and pillage minerals for their self gain.
If Africa / DRC are smart, this is a ideal scenario to get out of the poverty cycle, but they need to clean up their corruption issues first and foremost or the focus will turn away.
imo
Welcome back Money.......@zeeb0t
I am aware that you are a BRN shareholder and that it was the BRN supporters who set up The Stock Exchange Forum as a result of the trolling and lack of support from moderators on the hot crapper forum. I also am a BRN shareholder and realise that you and the others have a great deal of knowledge relating to AI. As I have been so committed to supporting the success of AVZ, I have have to completely overlooked what is happening on BRN and I have had to occasionally sell some of my BRN shares just to support myself.
Like other BRN holders I have been frustrated by what has happened with the company's share price and I understand fully the disappointment of not selling at $2, however (like you) I have great faith in the company and realise that like AVZ, patience is often the only way to move forward. I don't know how BRN is travelling at the moment because as I have said, I spend all my time focusing on AVZ, but I am no small shareholder in BRN, having 200,000 shares.
I needed to relate this to you, because I believe that this may help you understand what is going on in this forum. If you read the room properly you would realise that long term AVZ holders and contributors to this forum are getting 20 or more 'likes' per post and Der Geist and John Reed are lucky to get any. This is so obvious and it is not the result of a tribal mentality as they claim, these are genuine contributors - shareholder's concerns and frustration at your lack of seeing what has happened here.
For God's sake, surely you can see what has happened and continuing to happen!! Long term contributors, dedicated to AVZ's success are being undermined and you don't seem to realise. I am not sure if this is because you are focused on BRN and trading other stocks…. But you must surely realise what happened to you and all the other BRN holders, also happened to AVZ on hot crapper, and is now happening to AVZ on TSE.
I have read your comments on our thread, and I realise it takes 5 members to report a post and have it removed, which leads me to the conclusion that there are at least 5 trolls here working together!!!!!
As you have moderated me again a week ago, and prevented me from accessing my MoneyBags1348 account as well as preventing me from posting comments for the last week, I have still managed to carry out research and speak with other shareholders outside this forum. I also received an email from Ben Cohen (AVZ Joint Secretary) which I wanted to post on the thread but couldn't.
The tone of the email from Ben (which I will add to this post) does not in any way support the cryptic comments and speculations being put forward by wombat74 and der geist some of which are below:
wombat74 posts:
My spies also informed me dathomir is out
So maybe there is some truth to some of it
Nigel and crew are back in the DRC I believe
My source is in every way unrelated to an AVZ source
Der Geist replied with:
Wombat74 a long term holder in AVZ saw it as positive as well. But nothing is set as you know.
Think about it. If it feels like inadequate context, then ask the question ask the question ask the question. But don’t flame, when you can ask. Wombat74 accepted it as valid - I think you could apologise for thinking you can be nasty, yes? You also ignored my April 30 2022 RCCM discovery, didn’t you! Yes? Whose fault is that? Context within context, means do not bitch to me about seemingly trying to be enigmatic. This journo was mentioned earlier:
I have a lot of confidence the journo knows how to analyse complexity and you would too upon knowing who. Well even shareholders here can fill in the gaps.
The journo is very experienced, is on the ground in Kinshasa. And if I did a grading ( AVZ is the most certain, and this is from someone in Kinshasa now and not connected to AVZ at all. I wish I had more to offer, perhaps soon. I may join JR’s 2023 thread with anything Material
A little more definition emerging independent journalism in Kinshasa and @Dijon101 ‘s Uber are on the similar page at this point
I notice der geist and john reed also post numerous comments for shareholders to contact both Bloomberg as well as www.aspistrategist.org.au which I'm not suggesting is suspicious, I am just drawing your attention to it
Including
@Roon this might be for you.Direct message me if interested
Submissions | The Strategist
The Strategist style guide is available here (PDF). We welcome submissions of around 800 words of original analysis, book reviews, statistics or graphs related to defence, security and strategic policy. Please email us at editors@aspi.org.au We’ll accept longer pieces on a ...www.aspistrategist.org.au
We should get good coverage from Bloomberg as their Journalists covering this are well connected to Global Witness and CongoHoldup teams and other links beyond my scoping. Bloomberg has not done a piece on it since May 23 2022. I’m thinking why doesn’t Tom go to Kinshasa and be a real journalist?
Why don’t you email ASPI and let them know your Chinese interference theory?
After reading der geist's post to you on the forum today, my opinion is they continue to try and influence you and AVZ shareholders with mock sincerity while they carry out an agenda and refer to the majority here as tribal and 'herd' like. I simply ask you to look at the number of impassioned responses to and by shareholders who have been long term contributors trying hard to support AVZ, and while you are at it, ask why they have stopped posting.
It's not hard to see, please consider how you would react if you were an AVZ shareholder , counting the number of responses since the two members referred to joined this forum
Fortunately I have conversations outside of this forum with @Frank @Sammael @Winenut @JAG @cruiser51 and others whose phone numbers and emails I have. I'm not here to fuck around, I've got nearly 3million shares in AVZ and I still correspond directly with the company.
I edited some of Ben's reply to me as it related to specific questions I asked him. I had plenty more to say, but to be honest mate, I think I've finally had enough of the fucken bullshit here, maybe I will PM you who I think the trolls are, but at this stage you probably wouldn't take my opinions on board and I don't think I really give a shit anymore.
MoneyBags
View attachment 37027
Frank
Top 20
* I Concur, Ditto Wino, well said
Just as i was about to give up on TSE and Hand back my Membership
I've had a change of
and decided to hang around a bit longer to annoy the Haters / Trolls / Blow-ins etcI think it's great / amazing that we can have these conversations with a "Moderator" on TSE
Unlike that other place where you can't even discuss Moderation without being Moderated ffs !
Now let's get this Shit Show back on Track
To Infinity & Beyond
Food for thought
Cheers
Frank
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CashKing
Regular
Wtf wait did we all get our Money back somehow ? Fuxk I need to log in to Westpac app this is breaking news….Welcome back Money.......
Frank
Top 20
*Fyi,
Kin-Beijing cooperation: "Why is President Felix Tshisekedi going to China?
Congolese President Felix Tshisekedi will travel to China for the first time at the end of May to renegotiate the mining contracts signed by his predecessor for a total amount of 6.2 billion dollars.
Business is business.
The Congolese President wants a rebalancing of certain contracts with Beijing and will therefore travel to China to negotiate next week, reports Agence Congolaise de Presse.
Felix Tshisekedi is particularly targeting the mineral-for-infrastructure contract signed by former President Joseph Kabila in 2008.
It would be the Congolese leader's first visit to the Middle Kingdom, according to Bloomberg.
The $6.2 billion deal sees Chinese state-owned companies fund infrastructure projects using proceeds from a copper and cobalt mine.
But Felix Tshisekedi had already criticized its content in recent months, telling Bloomberg that it was "poorly written" and that the DRC derived "no benefit" from it.
In February, the Congolese General Inspectorate of Finance (IGF) for its part denounced "a disproportionate collaboration" to the detriment of the country, deploring that Chinese investors have only mobilized 822 million in financing in 14 years.
Kinshasa therefore hopes for a rebalancing to really make the agreement win-win.
"The objective is to consolidate and further expand Sino-Congolese cooperation based on sound foundations guaranteeing the principle of mutual respect, fairness and transparency beneficial to both the Congolese people and the Chinese people. "said government spokesman Patrick Muyaya on state television.
Towards an agreement between Gécamines and CMOC
The DRC is also negotiating a definitive agreement with the Chinese CMOC Group, reports Bloomberg.
The latter is in conflict with the Congolese state company Gécamines, over the Tenke Fungurume copper and cobalt mine.
Exports were halted last June as Gécamines claims CMOC owes billions in royalties.
The two companies are close to reaching a resolution, but have not yet signed a final agreement, Gecamines Chairman Guy-Robert Lukama told Bloomberg.
China remains the DRC's biggest trading partner, with the two nations trading 21.7 billion in 2022, according to data compiled by the US media.
China is the main destination for Congolese copper and cobalt, key minerals for the design of electric car batteries.
The country also produces 70% of the world's cobalt.
mediacongo
Xerof
Flaming 1967
Thanks Carlos, so as tight as two coats of paint.
Frank
Top 20
Fiscal year 2023: Félix Tshisekedi instructs the Government and the IGF to supervise control operations in revenue mobilization
The President of the Republic, Félix Tshisekedi gave instructions to the Minister of Finance Nicolas Kazadi to organize and supervise the operations relating to the tax audit for the 2023 financial year, as well as that of the automatic taxation of taxable persons who default on tax on profits.
This, with the support of the General Inspectorate of Finance.
These instructions were given to members of the government during the 99th Council of Ministers held on Friday May 19, 2023, the report of which was made by the Minister of Communication and Media, Patrick Muyaya.
According to the government spokesman, this measure taken by the Head of State will enable the Ministry of Public Finance to recover all the rights due to the State for the tax deadline of April 28 of the current year.
This, he continues, could put an end to the low rate of declaration during the tax deadline of the month of April last in the collection of the tax on profits and profits (IBP), observed in the head of the taxable persons.
Felix Tshisekedi also called on the members of the government to grant more speed in the materialization of the acts generating public revenue provided for in the 2023 Finance Law.
“By deciding to send control missions these companies will have to pay penalties. This is an arrangement that will cause the adjusted charges to be paid by the due date.
This will certainly have an impact on the forecasts adopted by the DGI which could not be unrealizable, ”reveals the same source.
mediacongo
The President of the Republic, Félix Tshisekedi gave instructions to the Minister of Finance Nicolas Kazadi to organize and supervise the operations relating to the tax audit for the 2023 financial year, as well as that of the automatic taxation of taxable persons who default on tax on profits.
This, with the support of the General Inspectorate of Finance.
These instructions were given to members of the government during the 99th Council of Ministers held on Friday May 19, 2023, the report of which was made by the Minister of Communication and Media, Patrick Muyaya.
According to the government spokesman, this measure taken by the Head of State will enable the Ministry of Public Finance to recover all the rights due to the State for the tax deadline of April 28 of the current year.
This, he continues, could put an end to the low rate of declaration during the tax deadline of the month of April last in the collection of the tax on profits and profits (IBP), observed in the head of the taxable persons.
Felix Tshisekedi also called on the members of the government to grant more speed in the materialization of the acts generating public revenue provided for in the 2023 Finance Law.
“By deciding to send control missions these companies will have to pay penalties. This is an arrangement that will cause the adjusted charges to be paid by the due date.
This will certainly have an impact on the forecasts adopted by the DGI which could not be unrealizable, ”reveals the same source.
mediacongo
Carlos Danger
Top 20
It would seem so. There's certainly no question that 10% needs to go to the DRC government in the mining code. Cominiere's commitment doesn't specify a percentage. It requires them to 'comply with an obligation resulting from the law then applicable' and 'transfer free of charge to the DRC part of its participation in Dathcom'. Neither AVZ or Dathomir have this listed in their commitments in the JVA.
I've read through the entire document and couldn't see another section that refers to this matter. But it's a long document and my French is okay but not fluent so I may have missed it. Cominiere's commitment was written this way without the specified 10% just in case the percentage required to cede to the DRC government was changed in the mining code imo
But this isn't the way the MoP sees it. She expects the 10% to be ceded on a pro rata basis.
9cardomaha
Regular
Regarding the joint case and ICC request that was submitted, peeps who want a gander hit me up on PM. Unfortunately still gonna slightly gatekeep and not just pump and dump it like DG's mum/sister.To Infinity & Beyond
Re: The reason that the DRC president is visiting Beijing
I stated a few weeks ago that I believed Felix's visit to Beijing was primarily for security talks due to increased rebel activities in the NE of the DRC, particularly activities sanctioned by Uganda and Rwanda. Well I was wrong.
According to Aljazeera.com (23 May 2023) the visit is to ink new minerals-for- infrastructure contracts. Given Beijing's quest for global mining and battery domination, Manono may get a mention. It's kinda the elephant in the room.
Ref: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...his-week-minerals-trade-deal-signing-expected
Cheers
F
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