AVZ Discussion 2022

[MoneyBags1348]

Contrary views or queries are not prejudice. Information assymetry may make one think there is prejudice but on what basis is the purported prejudice built on?

Was the company’s presentation of facts?

Was AVZ hiding bad news?
Yes.

If yes, was it legitimate to hide?
Yes and No.

How did you come to that conclusion?
AVZ clarified directly to me facts related to its (hysterical) May o4 media speculation statement. The IGF started speaking rather than Franck Fwamba’s incomplete snippets.

What about that May 04 statement?
Try reading it again after 12 months and ask as a more informed reader was it generous in clarifying what has been going on?

Are the arguments for non-disclosure by an ASX company based purely on whether a 3rd or 2nd party is acting within or outside the law.
NO.

I saw a lot of prejudice that maintained people’s heads in ostrich holes.

Just remember how great the Apollonian deception was, in Germany at that time April 2022. And the shock something else is going on entirely different. Would you be suspicious about “exit strategies” in a AXINO presentation.
Was there no curiosity about what Fwamba was muttering on Twitter months before?
Anglophones were so in the dark.

The other historical matters I brought up were all precipitated by the 2021 AGM — many here have since concluded there was issues how that meeting was run. I’ve had issues with it for years earlier. And not seeing Michael Hughes presenting not at a later date when fit to do, just wasn’t right for an ASX 200 company. There was a smell

The thing is, I am aware of all that. I am also aware of your constant undermining of AVZ exec’s and BOD and your efforts to encourage a movement against them as well as your efforts encouraging a class action against them.

At the present time we are fighting WITH the company, against a number of corrupt and bribed entities in the DRC and China while YOU continue to undermine us.

No one has forgotten about your relationship with Simon Cong and no one has forgotten about the aliases you use. I’m pretty sure you sold shares then either bought or borrowed more.

One thing is crystal clear, you are not here to support shareholders or AVZ

 

[Der Geist]

The thing is, I am aware of all that. I am also aware of your constant undermining of AVZ exec’s and BOD and your efforts to encourage a movement against them as well as your efforts encouraging a class action against them.

At the present time we are fighting WITH the company, against a number of corrupt and bribed entities in the DRC and China while YOU continue to undermine us.

No one has forgotten about your relationship with Simon Cong and no one has forgotten about the aliases you use. I’m pretty sure you sold shares then either bought or borrowed more.

One thing is crystal clear, you are not here to support shareholders or AVZ

Listen buddy - in your dogmas you don’t understand anything you haven’t learned is not to attack me with your paranoid diatribes.

The thing is, I am aware of all that. I am also aware of your constant undermining of AVZ exec’s and BOD and your efforts to encourage a movement against them as well as your efforts encouraging a class action against them.

At the present time we are fighting WITH the company, against a number of corrupt and bribed entities in the DRC and China while YOU continue to undermine us.

No one has forgotten about your relationship with Simon Cong and no one has forgotten about the aliases you use. I’m pretty sure you sold shares then either bought or borrowed more.

One thing is crystal clear, you are not here to support shareholders or AVZ

A “class action”, please explain this one. This is new.

 

[cruiser51]

If the DRC does not clean up its act of operating with the large brown paper bags under the table policy and can not be trusted to honour its contracts, do not believe a lot of money from the Western world will flow to the DRC.

The DRC will remain handcuffed and depended to the whims of China.

Sri Lanka comes to mind:
China's debt composition in Sri Lanka moved from 0.3 percent to 16 percent between 2000 and 2016. By the end of 2022, China's debt stock in Sri Lanka had reached some US$7.3 billion, amounting to 19.6 percent of Colombo's public external debt.2 Mar 2023

Sri Lanka has been unable to buy goods it needs from abroad. And in May 2022 it failed to make an interest payment on its foreign debt for the first time in its history. This damaged its reputation with lenders, making it even harder to borrow money on the international markets.29 Mar 2023

Sri Lanka's sovereign rating was progressively downgraded and the country was locked out of capital markets and was unable to roll-over maturing sovereign bonds. The IMF in its 2021 Article IV Consultations report concluded that Sri Lanka's public debt was unsustainable.

Is this what Felix T wants as his achievement after his first stint of President of the DRC?

If the DRC continues on its current course it will become a laughing stock in the international investment world, if they haven't already reached that stage.

 

[Flight996]

*Fyi, In case anyone missed it, like i did the other Day


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Hi Frank

Noting that Cominiere is owned 90% by the DRC government and 10% by a social security and pension fund, the really insidious thing about its request for a loan from AVZ is that, if successful, it could be construed as a bribe. I am 100% convinced that, if the AVZ board was silly enough to agree, Cominiere, Tommy Tosser and other low-life would have publicly bent us over with bribery allegations.

Cheers
F

 

[John Reed]

Anyone know who Cree EGC is?

This is all that I could find https://www.reuters.com/article/cobalt-congo-ahome-idINL8N2A666V

Franck is quite obtuse at times. Is it translation or a bit of arrogance?

 

[John Reed]

But like me, those chinese shareholders (and probably most of the others too) paid very little for their shares - well under 10 cents, so the economic value to lose is zippo (even though the theoretical market value has been massive). Opportunity cost only, if they never see their funds again.

The current Chinese shareholders would see it as a sacrifice for the greater good - Zijin has little to lose, CATH has even less, but CHINA has everything to win by trying to screw us

Kunts

don't mean to be seen as taking their side, just having an Eyore moment

I doubt it. They too would be muttering how awful their government is.

CATL’s chairman was recently tapped for questions of trust just like Ant Group’s Jack Ma.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Perhaps ICC matters. DRC can’t expect financial aid and not follow International law.

 

[John Reed]

Anyone who has read my comments knows…. I don’t like being here, but I do it because I want AVZ to succeed. Not just for me, also for shareholder’s I have developed relationships with as well as the poor people of Manono.

I’m holding off for the moment, but still gathering information and looking at ways to add it to any media promoting the DRC MINING WEEK events in June and September.

Mupande, CAMI and THE VUKA GROUP are front and centre of these events and if they want to keep fucking us around and now taking us off the CAMI portal, then we might as well let international investors know what doing business in the DRC involves.

I’m attaching my latest post on the DRC MINING WEEK thread and the link so shareholders can reach all the information on it. I don’t want comments tying the thread up, just want the facts clearly presented. I’ve provided clear facts and information, it’s up to shareholders to decide what they want to do

I’m not sure how many shareholders read this thread…. But there is more than enough evidence of corruption and extortion in the DRC mining sector to inform potential international investors ahead of the two DRC MINING WEEK events (June and September).

The evidence includes AVZ Minerals work (over the last 6 years in the DRC) developing the Manono Lithium Project as the majority shareholder in Dathcom, and includes the recent ICC (International Court of Arbitration) ruling, declaring Cominiere’s attempts to terminate AVZ’s partnership in the Dathcom joint venture as unlawful.

The evidence also shows that CAMI has now removed AVZ Minerals from holding the Exploration Rights (PR) on the 13359 tenement on the Landfolio Cadastre Map Portal

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...230417+New+legal+action+to+affirm+interests+i

DRC MINING WEEK 2023

Here is the agenda of DRC Mining Week 2023 scheduled for June 14 to 16 in Lubumbashi As announced, DRC Mining Week opens its doors from June 14 to 16, 2023 at Karavia Hotel in Lubumbashi in the province of Haut-Katanga in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). The day of June 14, 2023 is...

thestockexchange.com.au

Damned if you do dammed if you don’t…

You’ve put a lot of work into this, but I personally would discourage attacks on the Ministry of Mines people.

Everyone knows and they know.

Let’s give it breathing space : once we know we really are screwed then unleash.

Another observation, so few shareholders are active, how could we have an impact? One idea costing $ is Twitter sponsored promotion that could be effective reaching tens of thousands

 

[John Reed]

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Yep Nigel would have to prioritise the expectations of the Australian jurisdiction. Do the Congolese understand that?

We are supposed to understand their unofficial way.

 

[John Reed]

AUKUS, Assange, and the seething pathologies of the American Security State

We are permitting ourselves no character of our own under the architecture of the Alliance. It means weve accepted the status of a kind of client state, or American territory. I wont say the 51st state. It means weve got even less independence than a US governor would have, former Australian...

johnmenadue.com

Just shows how public opinion matters.

Perhaps ICC matters. DRC can’t expect financial aid and not follow International law.

Yes, early on in Tshisekedi’s presidency he was making all the right moves with EU and for massive funding.

Is he still on that track? Or is Manono too hard?

Certainly the IGF calling out the criminality of Cominiere and no follow through on prosecution even a stand down, is perplexing and illogical.

Only AFR and Congo mafia is ignoring it

 

[John Reed]

Listen buddy - in your dogmas you don’t understand anything you haven’t learned is not to attack me with your paranoid diatribes.


A “class action”, please explain this one. This is new.

I wouldn’t take his bait, his checking you out.
Overall like some here, I see your multiple aliases as actually just working out where the truth is and it has been overwhelming. The Cong association is worrisome however what did you mean last year on these threads, by helping Cong?

 

[Carlos Danger]

Was AVZ hiding bad news?
Yes.

If yes, was it legitimate to hide?
Yes and No.

Are the arguments for non-disclosure by an ASX company based purely on whether a 3rd or 2nd party is acting within or outside the law.
NO.

Do you still believe this?

If not, why not?

 

[John Reed]

The thing is, I am aware of all that. I am also aware of your constant undermining of AVZ exec’s and BOD and your efforts to encourage a movement against them as well as your efforts encouraging a class action against them.

At the present time we are fighting WITH the company, against a number of corrupt and bribed entities in the DRC and China while YOU continue to undermine us.

No one has forgotten about your relationship with Simon Cong and no one has forgotten about the aliases you use. I’m pretty sure you sold shares then either bought or borrowed more.

One thing is crystal clear, you are not here to support shareholders or AVZ

Hey bhags
I think it’s unfair to disparage Der Geist by saying he is constantly undermining BoD. This is simply not true. I just think he speaks his mind and if you’ve been around long enough (criteria: since AVZ picked up Manono) all that he has said has been fair criticism. All the questions on disclosure have been valid. We just don’t like it. Naturally.

At time of AGM the last time Der Geist was here he was simply emboldening shareholders to be ready to stand their ground with a management used to steering down ‘disloyalty’. You’ve also expressed discontent with management so I don’t see why you’re holding Der Geist to a higher standard of examination. It’s because he is seen as a threat and why would he still be a threat. Is there something else we don’t know?

 

[MoneyBags1348]

Listen buddy - in your dogmas you don’t understand anything you haven’t learned is not to attack me with your paranoid diatribes.


A “class action”, please explain this one. This is new.

I’m not your buddy, Cong is remember….

Of course you didn’t offer to help Cong lodge papers with ASIC or encourage shareholders to do the same

And of course you didn’t contact Tom Richardson to give him information

And of course you didn’t forge / construct a fake post by me last year

And of course you didn’t do these things ahead of the Omni Bridgeway class action offer

Only thing is that I have all the evidence to show that you did all those things

And @John Reed you might as well piss off, if you are not another der geist alias. Together you two remind me of a barrel with two half witted monkey’s

 

[Der Geist]

Do you still believe this?

If not, why not?

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I try to maintain confidentiality of my sources and I am sure they greatly appreciate it. What I said there in first screenshot - anyone who knows something that is not public domain will know where this is coming from

Those screenshotted views are consistent with today’s text input above.

It occurred to me just today, that the ASX must have been handed a copy of the documents Tom mentions to stockswami, but there was no ASX Query. What does this mean?

Eckhoff said “they” ( Cong et al ) had no response from ASIC or ASX. I think Cong said same. This is important to know. That means ASX and ASIC knew even before Tom or me what was happening — there was no ASX query in months after the Lubumbashi court actions in January and February 2022 — this is a powerful optic for shareholders to elaborate on on social media because it means the ASX and ASIC was cooperating in some way with AVZ— because precedent has been for ASX to slam AVZ as it did in 2018 and even around the TIA with CATH (—ASX was fuming about reference to 10mtpa plans but couldn’t do anything about it—). Likely, the Australian embassy and its 5 Eyes hotline would be monitoring is a reasonable assumption to draw and on Congolese politics.
In all likelihood, the Omnibridgeway threat of it emerged as having issued a NoC could be undermined if AVZ can demonstrate it had discretionary support to test disclosure tests for “suppositionality” because the Congolese government was onboard trying to snuff out internal malfeasance on the Dathcom project. This would improve confidence among regulators and the Australian Government that AVZ has acted well in shareholder interests in extremely adverse ‘agitations’. AVZ is naturally a part of US interests to counter China. Even if US wants to knock AVZ off as well. We can’t rest thinking anyone is our friend but it’s clear AVZ has the rapport with Manono people that has seasoned well over 6 years.

Despite all that, simply speaking AVZ shareholders have a right to know about anything that may materially affect the progress of the project and would it induce a reasonable person to sell or buy. Truth is, knowing how Cong was targeting Graeme was clearly worth disclosing under ASX rules but at the same time, to do so would slide further into blackmail and a worse situation. Indeed AVZI likely made offers to settle with Dathomir to move on. But if Cong knows one thing is a fish market haggle skill set. Cong though would be fearful of all that has passed, because he was already seen as a PEP; politically exposed person. Likewise Loando. They both May survive this current fiasco but massive injustices will mean karma will bite these miscreants as well

 

[Flight996]

Do you still believe this?

If not, why not?

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Carlos

Just ignore him. He's just fishing with deliberately obtuse language, and is clearly clueless. He doesn't even know the difference between Australia's market operator and Australia's market regulator.

Cheers
F

 

[Der Geist]

the Omnibridgeway threat of it emerged as having issued a NoC could be undermined

Typos: …if it emerges..

 

[Der Geist]

Carlos is intelligent. He just wants the truth as he said

 

[Bray]

Has anyone contacted Top 20 shareholders to get their opinions on all this
I’m sure internally they are communicating with each other but what about us smaller fellas reaching out

 

[Der Geist]

You’re not my buddy, Cong is remember….

Of course you didn’t offer to help Cong lodge papers with ASIC or encourage shareholders to do the same

And of course you didn’t contact Tom Richardson to give him information

And if course you didn’t forge / construct a
fake post by me last year

And of course you didn’t do these things ahead of the Omni Bridgeway class action offer

Only thing is that I have all the evidence to show that you did

And @John Reed you might as well piss off, if you are not another der geist alias. Together you two remind me of a barrel with two half witted monkey’s

Present your evidence.

As for the fake post, ever thought it might have been just a technical glitch— you are very sensitive very judgmental, and I can see why managment stopped talking yo you.

Point is here, if you want to keep challenging my you will undermine the company.

I am not here to discuss the company. Take a look. Everyone knows what the company has done and hasn’t done now