AVZ Discussion 2022

[RHyNO]

Ironic that all this tax money is going to be paid to the same bunch of c.——- that all rushed to our aid when we needed them most.

Anyone else up for a mass taxation refusal! Unless of course they offer to pay us out in Monrero.

 

[TheCount]

A tax deductible contribution to your super might be a good option too

In some circumstances I believe you can bring forward 3 years of contributions meaning you can contribute $300k in one year and claim it as a tax deduction

Pay 15% tax on the contribution to your super fund on the way in might be better than paying tax at higher marginal rates of 30%-37%-45% depending on how big your overall gains are

Later when in pension mode you can draw an income from your super fund tax free

But I'll leave the fancy tax talk to @TheCount .....I think he actually knows his fruit

EDIT: I think @Azzler was sort of touching on this same area......if that doesn't sound a bit too weird

EXTRA EDIT: I've apparently fked up on the tax deductibility thing....dammit

Appreciate your vote of confidence @Winenut - I am late to the conversation and can't disagree with the 2x learned opinions of @Thaz and @oxxa23 ...

I suggest you all consider engaging a paid tax agent (not financial adviser) to work through the plan piece by piece. I do not do my own taxes any more. Go in with your plan. Talk about it. Review it. Ask 100 questions. Write it all down. If you want a big Super balance, "how do I get there?". Log onto MyGov and have a look at your own Unused Concessional Cap value. Strategies can take a few years to come to fruition, and after the experience with AVZ you should all have built up a decent "patience" tolerance.

Many of the "benefits" of pumping money into Super only come with money that has already had tax paid on it. Should AVZ provide that liquidity, then map out a timeline of how you can achieve your goal. Just remember that once you put your hard-earned into Super, you can't get it out until "retirement". Patience.

I chose to use an SMSF and a separate Company structure (not the Trustee) to split my holdings and in fact the Co has double the holding of the SMSF for future planning. For example, I can leave my current consulting employment and join the Countess as an employee of that Co until retirement. The timing of that only depends on the valuation and proceeds from the sale of our AVZ.

The Co is hit with (factored into my calcs) 25% tax on earnings/profits (no CGT discount) and depending on what eventually happens (ie: 2026 tax year) the after-tax funds can be kept in the Co or fed into the SMSF via salary sacrificing or other simple measures. From an estate planning perspective I can pass on the structure to the kids without the impending death duties. To protect the family home, loans etc are all done in the company name.

CGT in the SMSF is taxed at 10% of the gain which is very generous. Work hard to balance Member account balances.

Other items to consider in your plans? Clearing a mortgage, investment property, what does retirement look like? I've mentioned before about REIT's paying 8% tax-free.

For everyone running an SMSF, understand the conditions to get it into Pension mode, such as:
- pays a minimum each year.
- cannot grow the balance by contributions or rollovers
- cannot use the balance against borrowings (use a Co like above??)

The underlying principle that I use for any calculations is "what is the tax treatment of my decision?".

Lots to work on and think about and I have always believed that AVZ was "the one" to provide financial freedom. Not long now till we see how that turns out......... at $12, my shout..

 

[Goldenboy]

Anyone else up for a mass taxation refusal! Unless of course they offer to pay us out in Monrero.

Absolutely. ….never going to happen though . Sold 200k at the start of Jan 21 to put down the house deposit. Cap gain tax was around $140k …. Payment plan to ATO attracts a 9.5% interest charge compounding !!!!!! Good money if you can get it ….C——-s !!

 

[Pokok]

Agree on the time horizon

Not necessarily expecting to have to deal with any major gain (if any) until the 2025/26 tax year (or beyond)

There's lots of great "pointers" and areas to explore that have been highlighted here but as @oxxa23 has rightfully pointed out everyone potentially has quite unique circumstances which affect how you may choose to deal with any gain event

Your age, who or what entity holds the shares, current balance of your super, other income (if any), whether you can crystalise any other share losses to offset CGT gains, how any deal is structured by AVZ and the other parties (entity sale/cash/scrip/dividend/trailing royalties) your domestic arrangements (single, spouse etc)

Certainly a minefied to navigate so best to get good, professional advice

This may be a once in a lifetime event......you don't want to fuck it up

I can't believe I did that winky thing.....

Share losses to offset CGT will be easy all I need to do is open my bottom draw , you know what peaves me more is the fact that the ATO will benefit from our long term pain and suffering and did not lift a finger nor recognize our situation

 

[tonster66]

LNP or the FIRB?

Frydenberg was in charge of FIRB at the time, was also the treasurer of Australia. He knew where the priorities were

 

[M.Bison]

Absolutely. ….never going to happen though . Sold 200k at the start of Jan 21 to put down the house deposit. Cap gain tax was around $140k …. Payment plan to ATO attracts a 9.5% interest charge compounding !!!!!! Good money if you can get it ….C——-s !!

Yep, currently on a payment plan with the ATO for some AVZ shares sold around the $1.30 mark. Subsequently spent or reinvested most of the gains, expecting to be able to use more AVZ shares to pay tax when needed (I'm a dumbass). $1,000 a fortnight. Living the dream.

 

[Juba1845]

Have to smile with all this chat about paying tax . The waves of despair then euphoria never ends . Need to see a deal first . Before June court date. Window is closing .

 

[Goldenboy]

Yep, currently on a payment plan with the ATO for some AVZ shares sold around the $1.30 mark. Subsequently spent or reinvested most of the gains, expecting to be able to use more AVZ shares to pay tax when needed (I'm a dumbass). $1,000 a fortnight. Living the dream.

And unfortunately having to sell my PLS at $1.40 !!! to pay the fucking tax man. ( self funded retirement )Anyway hopefully a resolution soon and we can all laugh about the past and how smart we all were

 

[Goldenboy]

Yep, currently on a payment plan with the ATO for some AVZ shares sold around the $1.30 mark. Subsequently spent or reinvested most of the gains, expecting to be able to use more AVZ shares to pay tax when needed (I'm a dumbass). $1,000 a fortnight. Living the dream.

Same boat as you only a bit bigger

 

[Lucas Don Velor]

Appreciate your vote of confidence @Winenut - I am late to the conversation and can't disagree with the 2x learned opinions of @Thaz and @oxxa23 ...

I suggest you all consider engaging a paid tax agent (not financial adviser) to work through the plan piece by piece. I do not do my own taxes any more. Go in with your plan. Talk about it. Review it. Ask 100 questions. Write it all down. If you want a big Super balance, "how do I get there?". Log onto MyGov and have a look at your own Unused Concessional Cap value. Strategies can take a few years to come to fruition, and after the experience with AVZ you should all have built up a decent "patience" tolerance.

Many of the "benefits" of pumping money into Super only come with money that has already had tax paid on it. Should AVZ provide that liquidity, then map out a timeline of how you can achieve your goal. Just remember that once you put your hard-earned into Super, you can't get it out until "retirement". Patience.

I chose to use an SMSF and a separate Company structure (not the Trustee) to split my holdings and in fact the Co has double the holding of the SMSF for future planning. For example, I can leave my current consulting employment and join the Countess as an employee of that Co until retirement. The timing of that only depends on the valuation and proceeds from the sale of our AVZ.

The Co is hit with (factored into my calcs) 25% tax on earnings/profits (no CGT discount) and depending on what eventually happens (ie: 2026 tax year) the after-tax funds can be kept in the Co or fed into the SMSF via salary sacrificing or other simple measures. From an estate planning perspective I can pass on the structure to the kids without the impending death duties. To protect the family home, loans etc are all done in the company name.

CGT in the SMSF is taxed at 10% of the gain which is very generous. Work hard to balance Member account balances.

Other items to consider in your plans? Clearing a mortgage, investment property, what does retirement look like? I've mentioned before about REIT's paying 8% tax-free.

For everyone running an SMSF, understand the conditions to get it into Pension mode, such as:
- pays a minimum each year.
- cannot grow the balance by contributions or rollovers
- cannot use the balance against borrowings (use a Co like above??)

The underlying principle that I use for any calculations is "what is the tax treatment of my decision?".

Lots to work on and think about and I have always believed that AVZ was "the one" to provide financial freedom. Not long now till we see how that turns out......... at $12, my shout..

Thanks for the info @TheCount

If/WHEN this all plays out, I’ll definitely need a payed professional to look at my situation, especially around paying out mortgages and advice regarding unused concessional cap value etc.

$12

 

[Winenut]

Have to smile with all this chat about paying tax . The waves of despair then euphoria never ends . Need to see a deal first . Before June court date. Window is closing .

 

[Frank]

MSN

In Kigali, Boulos said Washington’s proposal will benefit both DRC and Rwanda and will be “rooted in regional stability and peace as well as economic development.”

“During our discussions, President Kagame committed to pursuing this vision of peace.

I can confirm that the United States also remains committed to this effort and is ready to facilitate an end to this conflict, obviously a peaceful end to this conflict,” he told the media on Tuesday evening at the US Embassy in Kigali.

But there was a subtle threat: Those who won’t toe the line will face consequences.

Washington is especially keen on ensuring Rwanda ceases backing rebels across the border in the Congo and pulls back any military support it had deployed.

According to diplomatic sources familiar with the discussions, this will ensure each country can carry its can on internal security challenges.

Boulos said the US wants an end “that allows countries to secure their borders and lays the foundation for a thriving regional economy.

This relationship has great potential, and we appreciate the opportunity to discuss the way forward with our counterparts here in Kigali.

The deal is to benefit American access to minerals in the Congo, such as cobalt, lithium, uranium, gold and coltan.

And while Washington demanded that Rwanda tone down rebel backing, it also wants Kinshasa to provide state authority in eastern DRC, whose absence has previously fuelled armed conflict.

Kinshasa will also be required to tame corruption in its agencies, end the activities of the FDLR, a rebel group hiding in DRC and which Kigali blames for insecurity in Rwandan territory, and provide easier entry for American investments, including mining companies.

In Kinshasa, Boulos, did not name the value of investments the US wants to put into the Congo, but he did admit security will be a factor when he met with President Félix Tshisekedi on April 3.

“Of course, we need an environment that is as conducive to business as possible to achieve this objective.

Rest assured that American companies are operating transparently and will stimulate local economies.

“We’re talking about multibillion-dollar investments.

www.msn.com/en-xl/africa/top-stories/minerals-and-sanctions-trump-s-terms-conditions-to-aid-congo-peace-process/ar-AA1CP8KK?ocid=socialshare

 

[Frank]

*In other News i see where our friends at RIO have reached out in Brazil

 

[Frank]

https://x.com/AuSamus/status/1911778013672562975

https://x.com/NevetsdunnDunn/status/1911894207868051478

Parasites are organisms that live on or inside other organisms, known as hosts, and obtain nutrients from them at the host's expense.

 

[Spikerama]

Absolutely. ….never going to happen though . Sold 200k at the start of Jan 21 to put down the house deposit. Cap gain tax was around $140k …. Payment plan to ATO attracts a 9.5% interest charge compounding !!!!!! Good money if you can get it ….C——-s !!

$140K? That outrageous. How can CGT be 70% tax?

 

[PutUsernameHere]

I suggest you all consider engaging a paid tax agent (not financial adviser) to work through the plan piece by piece.

Accountants can give you factual information about your situation only, a tax financial adviser can give you that information and advise you on a strategy for moving forwards, to each individuals situation. Accountants can provide information and can give you a nudge at what you could do, but only advisers can tell you what you should do.

Ideally, you'd engage both. Particularly (yes, we're getting ahead of ourselves) with some of the potential sums some people here are talking about. I definitely wouldn't say exclude an adviser in people's planning though.

 

[Frank]

I personally don’t want a dividend I want a capital return or something that triggers a CGT event.

So something like, Oh i don't know, maybe

 

[Juba1845]

This doesn't look like a deal has been done or is being done . DRC still trying to have AVZ case against them thrown out. Looking more and more like it will play out through the courts. Long way to go.

Case Details | ICSID

icsid.worldbank.org

Latest Development:
April 14, 2025 -
The Respondent files further observations on the request to address the objections to jurisdiction as a preliminary question.

 

[Winenut]

Accountants can give you factual information about your situation only, a tax financial adviser can give you that information and advise you on a strategy for moving forwards, to each individuals situation. Accountants can provide information and can give you a nudge at what you could do, but only advisers can tell you what you should do.

Ideally, you'd engage both. Particularly (yes, we're getting ahead of ourselves) with some of the potential sums some people here are talking about. I definitely wouldn't say exclude an adviser in people's planning though.

Maybe accountant to minimise the tax and planner to decide best use of proceeds given your individual situation

 

[Retrobyte]

This doesn't look like a deal has been done or is being done . DRC still trying to have AVZ case against them thrown out. Looking more and more like it will play out through the courts. Long way to go.

Case Details | ICSID

icsid.worldbank.org

Latest Development:
April 14, 2025 -
The Respondent files further observations on the request to address the objections to jurisdiction as a preliminary question.

Delaying tactic so Celestin and Alain can spend more time on Skyscanner finding the cheapest flight to Brussels.