AVZ Discussion 2022

[Carlos Danger]

I've asked this genuine question on the crapper after a post by Amovatio who I greatly respect

I'm not really getting any comments over there not sure if they think I'm being negative or something

Anyhoo I thought I'd pose the question here in relation to AVZ not paying the arbitration fees and letting the action lapse IF the DRC grant AVZ the ML prior to 7th Feb 2025 (I think that's the deadline for the fees to be paid) which is what Amovatio was suggesting

Any thoughts here????

I sort of consider the arbitration a kind of necessary "insurance policy" to keep the fucking DRC to their word until absolutely EVERYTHING is 100% signed sealed delivered and unequivocally ratified in fucking blood!

View attachment 76681

90 days from November 7th is February 5th

I’m sure the fees will be paid if they need to be

The bod won’t drop the case without a deal imo

Not sure exactly how much we owe but the ICSID charges fees like they’re a hotel mini bar

Wild guess I’d say we owe around $100k

Schedule of Fees (2023) | ICSID

(Effective July 1, 2023) I. FEE FOR LODGING REQUESTS 1. Subject to paragraphs 2 and 3 below, the fee for lodging requests prescribed by the applicable Administrative and Financial Regulations is US$25,000. This non-refundable fee is payable to the Centre by a party: (a) requesting the...

icsid.worldbank.org

In Focus: ICSID Fees and Services | ICSID

ICSID offers a cost-effective and transparent fee structure for its dispute resolution services in arbitration, mediation, conciliation, and fact-finding proceedings.

icsid.worldbank.org

Chapter III: Financial Provisions | ICSID

icsid.worldbank.org

Case Details | ICSID

icsid.worldbank.org

 

[cruiser51]

I've asked this genuine question on the crapper after a post by Amovatio who I greatly respect

I'm not really getting any comments over there not sure if they think I'm being negative or something

Anyhoo I thought I'd pose the question here in relation to AVZ not paying the arbitration fees and letting the action lapse IF the DRC grant AVZ the ML prior to 7th Feb 2025 (I think that's the deadline for the fees to be paid) which is what Amovatio was suggesting

Any thoughts here????

I sort of consider the arbitration a kind of necessary "insurance policy" to keep the fucking DRC to their word until absolutely EVERYTHING is 100% signed sealed delivered and unequivocally ratified in fucking blood!

View attachment 76681

Me thinks it is extremely important, regardless of the position DRC/Zijin takes now, AVZ should go ahead with the arbitration cases and only stop,
if the 13329 tenement is returned to Dathcom, the DRC recognises that AVZ legally owns 75% of Dathcom and Dathcom has the ML for the entire 13329, access to power and water and Zijin removed from the entire 13329 tenement.

The example here:
Suppose Zijin steals my car and caravan, should I be happy, if Zijin gives me my car back, give them a big kiss and invite them to a barbie?
Or should I say if you don't give my caravan back I lodge a complain for stealing my caravan, you have to return my property?

Or if someone steals 1 million from a bank, should the bank be happy and friends with the thief, if he hands half of it back?

Zijin and the DRC have shown, through their actions, that they cannot be trusted and will try anything to disrupt/delay the arbitration cases.

To be extremely honest, taken in consideration that Cath operates under direction of China, I believe their game is part of the Chinese long game and only believe if their actions are fair dinkum by the time AVZ has this all sorted.

Not 1 second before that will I operate "In good faith" with the Chinese fukkers and the corrupt upper class of the DRC.

How the hell can you trust these fukkers?
This comes under 'once bitten, twice shy'.

 

[Winenut]

90 days from November 7th is February 5th

I’m sure the fees will be paid if they need to be

The bod won’t drop the case without a deal imo

Not sure exactly how much we owe but the ICSID charges fees like they’re a hotel mini bar

Wild guess I’d say we owe around $100k

Schedule of Fees (2023) | ICSID

(Effective July 1, 2023) I. FEE FOR LODGING REQUESTS 1. Subject to paragraphs 2 and 3 below, the fee for lodging requests prescribed by the applicable Administrative and Financial Regulations is US$25,000. This non-refundable fee is payable to the Centre by a party: (a) requesting the...

icsid.worldbank.org

In Focus: ICSID Fees and Services | ICSID

ICSID offers a cost-effective and transparent fee structure for its dispute resolution services in arbitration, mediation, conciliation, and fact-finding proceedings.

icsid.worldbank.org

Chapter III: Financial Provisions | ICSID

icsid.worldbank.org

Case Details | ICSID

icsid.worldbank.org

but would you drop the case if you got a deal???

or keep it in the hip pocket as an insurance policy in case anyone gets out of line and renegs on their deal(s)..........again

 

[hedrox]

It's probably part of the deal to drop all court proceedings I guess...but what do I know.

 

[Winenut]

Me thinks it is extremely important, regardless of the position DRC/Zijin takes now, AVZ should go ahead with the arbitration cases and only stop,
if the 13329 tenement is returned to Dathcom, the DRC recognises that AVZ legally owns 75% of Dathcom and Dathcom has the ML for the entire 13329, access to power and water and Zijin removed from the entire 13329 tenement.

The example here:
Suppose Zijin steals my car and caravan, should I be happy, if Zijin gives me my car back, give them a big kiss and invite them to a barbie?
Or should I say if you don't give my caravan back I lodge a complain for stealing my caravan, you have to return my property?

Or if someone steals 1 million from a bank, should the bank be happy and friends with the thief, if he hands half of it back?

Zijin and the DRC have shown, through their actions, that they cannot be trusted and will try anything to disrupt/delay the arbitration cases.

To be extremely honest, taken in consideration that Cath operates under direction of China, I believe their game is part of the Chinese long game and only believe if their actions are fair dinkum by the time AVZ has this all sorted.

Not 1 second before that will I operate "In good faith" with the Chinese fukkers and the corrupt upper class of the DRC.

How the hell can you trust these fukkers?
This comes under 'once bitten, twice shy'.

Yep....

Pretty much where I'm coming from there buddy

Not so much mistrusting CATH (although their Chinese connection and previous actions can't be ignored) however the absolute fuckery from the DRC agencies and the DRC Government is one thing I don't think taking the foot off the fucking throat is necessarily going to improve in any fucking way

After years of observation I am yet to see any action from the DRC Government or its agencies that one could prima facie "rely on" in a commercial, legal or business sense

I'm absolutely wary as fuck as the next round of activity and negotiations plays out, trusting no-one and definitely looking to cover all bases with maximum legal protection and recourse

 

[Winenut]

It's probably part of the deal to drop all court proceedings I guess...but what do I know.

Yeah.....I get that

Of course that is what the DRC and others want in the negotiation

I'm just not willing to give up that bargaining chip yet without other iron clad agreements in place with further opportunities for recourse if the bad actors decide in the future to reinstate a bunch of shitfuckery

 

[Mr Inappropriate]

Looks like it's working Ol' Boy- C'mon
View attachment 76694


View attachment 76693

View attachment 76695

What are you crack-heads doing? It's the Crapper, damn it!

 

[Mr Inappropriate]

Yeah.....I get that

Of course that is what the DRC and others want in the negotiation

I'm just not willing to give up that bargaining chip yet without other iron clad agreements in place with further opportunities for recourse if the bad actors decide in the future to reinstate a bunch of shitfuckery

The only leverage we have is the ICSID case. We've been bitten 37 times by these corrupt arseholes - there's zero chance we give up that case, absent the granting of the ML. If I'm Nigel, I'm insiting on the following preconditions in regards to the case:

1. The granting of the ML.
2. The power station sorted.
3. A written guarantee from the DRC confirming the withdrawal of all legal actions against AVZ by the DRC and related government agencies.
4. Fatso himself steps up to the mic at a media event and waxes on about AVZ and the great partnerhsip with CATL and the DRC. Needs to be accompanied by a fucking decree, public release of ML documents, social media posts - the works.
5. Agreement to pause the ICSIC case for (say) 12 months after the granting of the ML. We would agree to formally withdraw only once certain conditions are met (i.e. no more shitfuckery from the DRC, their agencies, and their proxies).
6. Public condemnation of #FuckZijin and corruption with the DRC. Yeah yeah, I know this won't happen...

We should not readily give up our (ICSID) insurance policy.

Stay fucking strong AVZ.

 

[Pokok]

C

What are you crack-heads doing? It's the Crapper, damn it!

Crack

 

[Pokok]

90 days from November 7th is February 5th

I’m sure the fees will be paid if they need to be

The bod won’t drop the case without a deal imo

Not sure exactly how much we owe but the ICSID charges fees like they’re a hotel mini bar

Wild guess I’d say we owe around $100k

Schedule of Fees (2023) | ICSID

(Effective July 1, 2023) I. FEE FOR LODGING REQUESTS 1. Subject to paragraphs 2 and 3 below, the fee for lodging requests prescribed by the applicable Administrative and Financial Regulations is US$25,000. This non-refundable fee is payable to the Centre by a party: (a) requesting the...

icsid.worldbank.org

In Focus: ICSID Fees and Services | ICSID

ICSID offers a cost-effective and transparent fee structure for its dispute resolution services in arbitration, mediation, conciliation, and fact-finding proceedings.

icsid.worldbank.org

Chapter III: Financial Provisions | ICSID

icsid.worldbank.org

Case Details | ICSID

icsid.worldbank.org

I ran up a $100 bar bill my first bucks night 1981 oh and $20 to the pole girls at the x

 

[Yaseen]

BOD would have to be batshit crazy to drop the cases prior to a deal that is bulletproof and full of multiple backup plans ready for the snakes to bite again. If the only offer was 'drop the court cases and we'll give you an ML', then I'd tell them 'hell no, you've attempted to rape us silly for over 2 years and it aint gonna happen. Sign the ML and read carefully all our failsafe clauses to ensure you cant backout, or else the court cases are going ahead full throttle you dirty rotten scoundrels'

 

[Ashlee]

The only leverage we have is the ICSID case. We've been bitten 37 times by these corrupt arseholes - there's zero chance we give up that case, absent the granting of the ML. If I'm Nigel, I'm insiting on the following preconditions in regards to the case:

1. The granting of the ML.
2. The power station sorted.
3. A written guarantee from the DRC confirming the withdrawal of all legal actions against AVZ by the DRC and related government agencies.
4. Fatso himself steps up to the mic at a media event and waxes on about AVZ and the great partnerhsip with CATL and the DRC. Needs to be accompanied by a fucking decree, public release of ML documents, social media posts - the works.
5. Agreement to pause the ICSIC case for (say) 12 months after the granting of the ML. We would agree to formally withdraw only once certain conditions are met (i.e. no more shitfuckery from the DRC, their agencies, and their proxies).
6. Public condemnation of #FuckZijin and corruption with the DRC. Yeah yeah, I know this won't happen...

We should not readily give up our (ICSID) insurance policy.

Stay fucking strong AVZ.

I would be extremely disappointed if Nigel and the Board discontinued the ICC and ICSID cases without
1. 13329 tenement returned in full to Dathcom
2. Mining Lic granted
3. Power station sorted
history has shown you can not trust Felix or the DRC Govt or Institutions let alone the Chinese.

 

[Carlos Danger]

but would you drop the case if you got a deal???

or keep it in the hip pocket as an insurance policy in case anyone gets out of line and renegs on their deal(s)..........again

It's probably part of the deal to drop all court proceedings I guess...but what do I know.

The only leverage we have is the ICSID case. We've been bitten 37 times by these corrupt arseholes - there's zero chance we give up that case, absent the granting of the ML. If I'm Nigel, I'm insiting on the following preconditions in regards to the case:

1. The granting of the ML.
2. The power station sorted.
3. A written guarantee from the DRC confirming the withdrawal of all legal actions against AVZ by the DRC and related government agencies.
4. Fatso himself steps up to the mic at a media event and waxes on about AVZ and the great partnerhsip with CATL and the DRC. Needs to be accompanied by a fucking decree, public release of ML documents, social media posts - the works.
5. Agreement to pause the ICSIC case for (say) 12 months after the granting of the ML. We would agree to formally withdraw only once certain conditions are met (i.e. no more shitfuckery from the DRC, their agencies, and their proxies).
6. Public condemnation of #FuckZijin and corruption with the DRC. Yeah yeah, I know this won't happen...

We should not readily give up our (ICSID) insurance policy.

Stay fucking strong AVZ.

I would be extremely disappointed if Nigel and the Board discontinued the ICC and ICSID cases without
1. 13329 tenement returned in full to Dathcom
2. Mining Lic granted
3. Power station sorted
history has shown you can not trust Felix or the DRC Govt or Institutions let alone the Chinese.

With or without a MoU we will simply pause the case at the ICSID between a potential deal being made up until the point Dathcom has the licence in hand from CAMI

We won't get the licence without the north and power plant being sorted one way or another

If we have the licence then there is no grounds for the current ICSID case to continue imo

 

[tolate]

Me thinks it is extremely important, regardless of the position DRC/Zijin takes now, AVZ should go ahead with the arbitration cases and only stop,
if the 13329 tenement is returned to Dathcom, the DRC recognises that AVZ legally owns 75% of Dathcom and Dathcom has the ML for the entire 13329, access to power and water and Zijin removed from the entire 13329 tenement.

The example here:
Suppose Zijin steals my car and caravan, should I be happy, if Zijin gives me my car back, give them a big kiss and invite them to a barbie?
Or should I say if you don't give my caravan back I lodge a complain for stealing my caravan, you have to return my property?

Or if someone steals 1 million from a bank, should the bank be happy and friends with the thief, if he hands half of it back?

Zijin and the DRC have shown, through their actions, that they cannot be trusted and will try anything to disrupt/delay the arbitration cases.

To be extremely honest, taken in consideration that Cath operates under direction of China, I believe their game is part of the Chinese long game and only believe if their actions are fair dinkum by the time AVZ has this all sorted.

Not 1 second before that will I operate "In good faith" with the Chinese fukkers and the corrupt upper class of the DRC.

How the hell can you trust these fukkers?
This comes under 'once bitten, twice shy'.

One would ASSUME how could you trust AVZ management...!
One would think as a TRUE S H why hasnt AVZ updated their S H..????
Going on with these SO CALLED arbitration how will they be ENFORCED..????
We need CATH and the CHINESE to get AVZ a M L then we all can move forward...imo
ATM it seems we are at a STALE MATE...imo
No good drawing at STRAWS, lets get the show on the road...!
AVZ silence shows TRUE S H, not all is going to PLAN...imo

 

[tolate]

With or without a MoU we will simply pause the case at the ICSID between a potential deal being made up until the point Dathcom has the licence in hand from CAMI

We won't get the licence without the north and power plant being sorted one way or another

If we have the licence then there is no grounds for the current ICSID case to continue imo

View attachment 76719
View attachment 76720

I think the penny has dropped for NIGEL...!
Even if you win these SO CALLED Arbitrations..!
An arbitration mechanism was set up to resolve disputes with a mediator agreed to by both parties.
Now how will these disputes be ENFORCED """"""the word ENFORCEMENT has popped up"""""
All up to the DRC to grant a M L, we dont need this dragged out for YEARS to come...imo

 

[Winenut]

With or without a MoU we will simply pause the case at the ICSID between a potential deal being made up until the point Dathcom has the licence in hand from CAMI

We won't get the licence without the north and power plant being sorted one way or another

If we have the licence then there is no grounds for the current ICSID case to continue imo

View attachment 76719
View attachment 76720

Nicely done there Captain Danger

 

[Frank]

x.com

x.com

 

[Frank]

x.com

x.com

x.com

x.com

 

[PhatCatz]

This was one of my key concerns regarding this CATH deal. It wasn’t clearly defined in the announcement what the intentions of the legal cases were. I’ve said many times that it’s company suicide to drop these cases. Even if the assurances are provided I would not drop them at all until we are on the ground and mining the shit out of this deposit… no way anyone can trust these people. They’d lie, cheat and destroy anyone who gets in the way of what they really want.

As I’ve said before. Gotta stand behind the BoD on this one. They’ve managed to keep the company alive in the fight this long. So hopefully they don’t let their guard down now.

 

[aon]

Me thinks it is extremely important, regardless of the position DRC/Zijin takes now, AVZ should go ahead with the arbitration cases and only stop,
if the 13329 tenement is returned to Dathcom, the DRC recognises that AVZ legally owns 75% of Dathcom and Dathcom has the ML for the entire 13329, access to power and water and Zijin removed from the entire 13329 tenement.

The example here:
Suppose Zijin steals my car and caravan, should I be happy, if Zijin gives me my car back, give them a big kiss and invite them to a barbie?
Or should I say if you don't give my caravan back I lodge a complain for stealing my caravan, you have to return my property?

Or if someone steals 1 million from a bank, should the bank be happy and friends with the thief, if he hands half of it back?

Zijin and the DRC have shown, through their actions, that they cannot be trusted and will try anything to disrupt/delay the arbitration cases.

To be extremely honest, taken in consideration that Cath operates under direction of China, I believe their game is part of the Chinese long game and only believe if their actions are fair dinkum by the time AVZ has this all sorted.

Not 1 second before that will I operate "In good faith" with the Chinese fukkers and the corrupt upper class of the DRC.

How the hell can you trust these fukkers?
This comes under 'once bitten, twice shy'.

Cruiser maybe you could cut a deal on behalf of the BoD and advise Chyna they can have the entire tennament of 13329 if little old AVZ could just hold onto all of 13359