AVZ Discussion 2022

[Carlos Danger]

Hey PhatCatz have a read of @ Carlos Danger last 2 posts. I think he has explained it perfectly.
Thanks Carlos

Can you feel the tension? I can. I can feel it down in my plums. They're getting a nice bluish hue.

‘There is a reasonable prospect that a party, including the Company, will be granted a PE in respect of the Carriere de l’Este Mineral Resource’

‘Roche Dure has the good powder’

‘The north is haunted by mica’

’95% of the value is in the south’

 

[JasonM]

been a away a bit over a day and what 5 or 6 pages of posts to catch up on, something must be happening which is awfully nice to be in this situation in a very long time.

@SilentOne its not defeatist to reach a negotiated outcome, I firmly believe zijin will remain with the north, they'll pay for it, maybe $200m, $300m, whatever but in the end only way to move forward in my view is to let go of that and move on. all speculation on here so time will tell

 

[Xerof]

View attachment 75806
Can you feel the tension? I can. I can feel it down in my plums. They're getting a nice bluish hue.

‘There is a reasonable prospect that a party, including the Company, will be granted a PE in respect of the Carriere de l’Este Mineral Resource’

‘Roche Dure has the good powder’

‘The north is haunted by mica’

’95% of the value is in the south’

View attachment 75807

My plums have morphed into avocados, and they are ripening by the hour

and to @whales PAZBOZ, I had missed your input over on the crapper, but here you have been all the time. Should have guessed with whales as your nick. I think we traded whale memes in days gone by

 

[Point Piper Dealer]

I posted this on hotcrapper, let me know your thoughts:

"Good post Xerof, however if a deal is struck with the DRC govt in obtaining a ML and therefore all court cases are dropped at part of the deal, I would suspect that the Dathomir percentage would go to CATH given they will ultimately be the ones whom will negotiate with Simon Cong.

Sure if we continued down the ICC / ISCID route then yes AVZ would claim the % from Dathomir due to a legal win awarding us the rights, however I don't believe this will be case moving forward. My feel is all negotiations will be done by CATH! AVZ will take a backseat in all dealings!

As we all know AVZ doesn't have a great name in the DRC (not our fault) and therefore my feel is for us to secure ML, drop cases, provide what is seen as a win-win for the DRC govt we will become a minority holder. The transaction/payout/transfer on Dathomir will tip us into the minority holder status. I do believe however we will have higher voting rights, as this would have been written up legally. The reason I say this is because CATH will not be able to override/spill the board with votes as part of the relationship deed. We need to read between the lines here."

 

[Winenut]

Does anyone have a correct diagramatic representation of the corporate structure for Dathcom and the AVZ related entities involved and % holdings "prior" to the new arrangement just annnounced involving Mr Pei and Green Lithium Holdings?

The representation (or even just straight cold hard data) would ideally include Dathcom, AVZI, AVZ Minerals and Green Lithium Holdings at a very minimum and indicating parent and subsidiary entities and relevant holding percentages

I've been searching everywhere but I'll be fucked if I can find a definitive one and I would like it as a starting point for my own calculations and analysis of the new Mr Pei/CATH arrangements

I've really appreciated the input from others on the thread but there seems to be a number of different variations and views as to what we are starting with and what we can expect if the arrangement is implimented

All help greatly appreciated

Cheers!

 

[Carlos Danger]

I posted this on hotcrapper, let me know your thoughts:

"Good post Xerof, however if a deal is struck with the DRC govt in obtaining a ML and therefore all court cases are dropped at part of the deal, I would suspect that the Dathomir percentage would go to CATH given they will ultimately be the ones whom will negotiate with Simon Cong.

Sure if we continued down the ICC / ISCID route then yes AVZ would claim the % from Dathomir due to a legal win awarding us the rights, however I don't believe this will be case moving forward. Mt feel is all negotiations will be done by CATH! AVZ will take a backseat in all dealings!

As we all know AVZ doesn't have a great name in the DRC (not our fault) and therefore my feel is for us to secure ML, drop cases, provide what is seen as a win-win for the DRC govt we will become a minority holder. The transaction/payout/transfer on Dathomir will tip us into the minority holder status. I do believe however we will have higher voting rights, as this would have been written up legally. The reason I say this is because CATH will not be able to overwrite/spill the board with votes as part of the relationship deed. We need to read between the lines here."

You misunderstand the nature of our disagreement with Dathomir

Part of the negotiations if occurring will be the requirement that Cong admits the SPA's were completed correctly

This is crucial for Graeme Johnston avoiding jail

The TIA terms clearly show that the deal is based on AVZ holding 75% of Manono

Shouldn't be too much longer now for the ICC to confirm the SPA's were completed upon payment so tick tock if Cong wants to avoid damages imo

 

[Flight996]

Re: Mt feel is all negotiations will be done by CATH! AVZ will take a backseat in all dealings!

I can't see the majority holder (AVZ/GLH) allowing the Chinese minority holder (CATH) to negotiate on it's behalf. From a business strategy point of view, that's corporate suicide.

AVZ hasn't fought tooth and nail for the past two years against a relentless campaign of graft and corruption to simply relinquish its negotiating position and its future to the Chinese.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Re: Mt feel is all negotiations will be done by CATH! AVZ will take a backseat in all dealings!

I can't see the majority holder (AVZ/GLH) allowing the minority holder (CATH) to negotiate on it's behalf. From a business strategy point of view, that's corporate suicide.

AVZ hasn't fought tooth and nail for the past two years against a relentless campaign of graft and corruption to simply relinquish its negotiating position and future to the Chinese.

The DRC government are refusing to talk to the bod

Having Pei as a middle man makes a lot of sense

It will be collaborative between AVZ / CATH but ultimately Pei will be pulling most of the functional strings

It would need to be something serious for Nigel to intervene and I reckon the legal option will be a break glass in case of emergency type thing as we wouldn't want to be the ones stalling the project again unless absolutely necessary

I doubt there would be too much disagreement between Nigel and Pei on how to do things anyway but Pei will be able to throw his weight around more easily than most minority positions due to the financial backing, processing expertise and negotiation ability he brings to the table imo

 

[GuruDukun]

Here is a recent tender from Manono Lithium. They use Rawbank too.

Société MANONO LITHIUM SAS : Avis de l'Invitation à des négociations commerciales sur le transport de matériaux pour Manono Lithium SAS

马诺诺锂业物资运输商务谈判邀请公告 Avis de l'Invitation à des négociations commerciales sur le transport de matériaux pour Manono Lithium SAS 公告编号Numéro d'annonce：MLSAS20250101 刚果民主共和国马诺诺锂业简易股份有限公司，法文全称： MANONO LITHIUM SAS，在刚果民主共和国(以下简称“刚果(金)”)注册，（国家注册号：05-B0500-N27040M，商业登记号：CD/LSH/RCCM/23-B-01276 ，税号...

www.radiookapi.net

 

[Point Piper Dealer]

The DRC government are refusing to talk to the bod

Having Pei as a middle man makes a lot of sense

It will be collaborative between AVZ / CATH but ultimately Pei will be pulling most of the functional strings

It would need to be something serious for Nigel to intervene and I reckon the legal option will be a break glass in case of emergency type thing as we wouldn't want to be the ones stalling the project again unless absolutely necessary

I doubt there would be too much disagreement between Nigel and Pei on how to do things anyway but Pei will be able to throw his weight around more easily than most minority positions due to the financial backing, processing expertise and negotiation ability he brings to the table imo

Agree Carlos!

On another point given CATH already own 7.1% of all current AVZ shares are these part of GLH or AVZ direct. If AVZ direct, then their holdings is naturally higher overall.

 

[Flight996]

The DRC government are refusing to talk to the bod

Having Pei as a middle man makes a lot of sense

It will be collaborative between AVZ / CATH but ultimately Pei will be pulling most of the functional strings

It would need to be something serious for Nigel to intervene and I reckon the legal option will be a break glass in case of emergency type thing as we wouldn't want to be the ones stalling the project again unless absolutely necessary

I doubt there would be too much disagreement between Nigel and Pei on how to do things anyway but Pei will be able to throw his weight around more easily than most minority positions due to the financial backing, processing expertise and negotiation ability he brings to the table imo

Yes, I understand what you are saying.

At the same time the Chinese cannot be trusted or taken at their word. Regardless of whether it's CATL, Pei or Zijin, they all play to Beijing's song book. I can't see AVZ's legal team, DLA Piper agreeing that AVZ relinquish its negotiation position to the Chinese.

 

[GuruDukun]

En RDC, la bataille pour le lithium de Manono oppose aussi des groupes chinois

Le chinois Zijin Mining devrait commencer l’exploitation du gisement de lithium de Manono en 2026. Or, la propriété de ce projet situé en RDC fait

www.agenceecofin.com

More reporting on the AVZ CATH deal.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Agree Carlos!

On another point given CATH already own 7.1% of all current AVZ shares are these part of GLH or AVZ direct. If AVZ direct, then their holdings is naturally higher overall.

They are part of that 7.1% (biggest part) but yes otherwise true

So ultimate profit share on an indirect basis from Manono is even higher for CATH than 30.5% when factoring in their direct and indirect holdings in AVZ

It also adds weight to Pei's unoffical indirect control of the project imo

 

[Jazz]

Does anyone have a correct diagramatic representation of the corporate structure for Dathcom and the AVZ related entities involved and % holdings "prior" to the new arrangement just annnounced involving Mr Pei and Green Lithium Holdings?

The representation (or even just straight cold hard data) would ideally include Dathcom, AVZI, AVZ Minerals and Green Lithium Holdings at a very minimum and indicating parent and subsidiary entities and relevant holding percentages

I've been searching everywhere but I'll be fucked if I can find a definitive one and I would like it as a starting point for my own calculations and analysis of the new Mr Pei/CATH arrangements

I've really appreciated the input from others on the thread but there seems to be a number of different variations and views as to what we are starting with and what we can expect if the arrangement is implimented

All help greatly appreciated

Cheers!

Mate, there was a series of pie charts along these lines published a while back, not sure if it was an AVZ announcement or through media. Will post them if I can find them.

 

[Samus]

Let's not forget that CATH/Mr Pee Pees haven't lifted a finger to help out AVZ over the past couple of years, if anything they've sided with the other Chinese in attempting a hostile takeover of AVZ using the MMAGOTS.

Perhaps the Chinese have realised they're up shit Creek with regards to getting away with stealing the whole tenement and changed tactics to hedge their bets either way.

We need to finally see some action from CATH for a start, why didn't they come to an arrangement for funding until after the Locke funding deal was finalised?

It all seems like a positive turn of events in the end but with the zijin cockroaches and criminals of cominiere dug in to our tenement having stolen the camp, water, hydro plant etc there seems like a bit of a way to go for any sort of resolution.

I'd like to see the arbitration fees paid (yesterday) using CATH money and a bit of noise from them in support of AVZ. That'd be a good start.

It's still the snails pace of the various arbitrations bogging us down, we need some definitive legal wins under our belt. Sooner the better, it's unbelievable that it's taken this long as the DRC ignore all rulings and illegally progress Manono Lithium in contravention of their own mining code.

Great progress finally but this should have happened 12 months ago if CATH could really be trusted so we can't get complacent and we need to see some (hopefully rapid) progression from this point.

Whatever happens I hope we get the opportunity to sell either through a market listing or the entire company. Fuck this shit to hell and back.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Yes, I understand what you are saying.

At the same time the Chinese cannot be trusted or taken at their word. Regardless of whether it's CATL, Pei or Zijin, they all play to Beijing's song book. I can't see AVZ's legal team, DLA Piper agreeing that AVZ relinquish its negotiation position to the Chinese.

Yeah my point is a bit more nuanced

Like I've said repeatedly AVZ will maintain legal control of the project to satisfy shareholders and western governments

But Nigel will only override Pei on a major disagreement about something serious when it comes to action on the ground imo

 

[PhatCatz]

So have CATH provided the $20 million already? AS in it's sitting in a SAFE bank account ready to be drawn down on? or is that subject to ML being delivered? I got lost a tad in the wording. Also the Locke Funding it seems we've canned it completely... I'd have liked for that to be there ready in case funny busines goes on.

 

[Carlos Danger]

So have CATH provided the $20 million already? AS in it's sitting in a SAFE bank account ready to be drawn down on? or is that subject to ML being delivered? I got lost a tad in the wording. Also the Locke Funding it seems we've canned it completely... I'd have liked for that to be there ready in case funny busines goes on.

The exact amount we are borrowing is how much was in escrow under the original TIA terms

'Released to CATH' is pretty vague

I reckon the fine print of the restructured TIA deal ensures we get access to this money in tranches under approval from CATH with the first $10m guaranteed by end of this month imo

 

[Winenut]

Mate, there was a series of pie charts along these lines published a while back, not sure if it was an AVZ announcement or through media. Will post them if I can find them.

Thanks mate

I've been pouring over past presentations from the company, annual reports, the different threads on AVZ here, general googles searches on each of the entities eg Green Lithium Holdings Pte Ltd (Singapore I think), AVZ International Pty Ltd, AVZ Minerals Pty Ltd, the Dathcom JV you name it and.......

 

[Carlos Danger]

Does anyone have a correct diagramatic representation of the corporate structure for Dathcom and the AVZ related entities involved and % holdings "prior" to the new arrangement just annnounced involving Mr Pei and Green Lithium Holdings?

The representation (or even just straight cold hard data) would ideally include Dathcom, AVZI, AVZ Minerals and Green Lithium Holdings at a very minimum and indicating parent and subsidiary entities and relevant holding percentages

I've been searching everywhere but I'll be fucked if I can find a definitive one and I would like it as a starting point for my own calculations and analysis of the new Mr Pei/CATH arrangements

I've really appreciated the input from others on the thread but there seems to be a number of different variations and views as to what we are starting with and what we can expect if the arrangement is implimented

All help greatly appreciated

Cheers!

Thanks mate

I've been pouring over past presentations from the company, annual reports, the different threads on AVZ here, general googles searches on each of the entities eg Green Lithium Holdings Pte Ltd (Singapore I think), AVZ International Pty Ltd, AVZ Minerals Pty Ltd, the Dathcom JV you name it and.......

https://announcements.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20220510/pdf/458wcl37mzt6j0.pdf