AVZ Discussion 2022

[oxxa23]

I'm hoping that if there's any chance of avz selling out all together that they're looking at tax strategies... more specifically whether they can work out a way for shareholders to be selling shares and accessing cgt discount...rather than avz selling the project or its shares in glh etc.

Nothing obvious comes to mind however...

 

[whales]

Sorry here is the full post

Guys,
There is nothing in the announcement which suggests AVZ has dropped the litigation because of negotiations with the DRC. What was stated is that AVZ has a revised JV and new funding arrangement with CATH and no longer needs to draw upon the Locke Litigation funding facility.

Lets not forget who is funding and running the DRC's legal process. The corrupt Zijin Mining Group and its lawyers who have been collaboratively working with Cominiere. This bunch of criminals don't get a seat at the negotiation table with CATH, AVZ and the DRC Govt.

The restructured partnership with CATH is the window for the DRC to accelerate the development of the Manono project as well as validate AVZ's legal claims and strategy. The DRC wants to build the Mine and get this into production in 2026. This new arrangement is the only way of achieving this. The Litigation process will delay this indefinitely and be enormously costly to the DRC along with the ongoing demise in their reputation.

Also, to cancel the Arbitration process would be to allow Cominiere and the DRC to walk away without any penalties being imposed. At the very least the $Millions they owe us should be an integral part of any negotiation up and until the final date (target date Feb 7) by which the fees are required to be paid for the ICSID Tribunal hearing, scheduled for June.

The Pre completion funding agreement stipulates the Drawdowns are scheduled by end of January. This is for the Litigation process. AVZ and CATH are committed to moving forward with this process if this is needed to get action to take place. The completion of the drawdowns is scheduled in December 2026 as part of the funding agreement. This is firmly stated. There is no compromise on this strategy.
So the fines which have been increasing each day on the DRC, and now amount to in excess of $70M are not going to be waived.
The DRC needs to get its act together swiftly before the end of January and advance the negotiations to grant the Mining Licence to Dathcom (AVZi) now or risk it all at the ICSID Arbitration hearing. It is the only way the Manono Project (area covered by PR 13359) is going to get off the ground and be operational before 2027. Zijin will definitely not be part of this outcome.

 

[DiscoDanNZ]

Zijin selling up in Aus - seen the writing on the wall?

Minerals 260 has executed binding documentation to acquire 100% of the Bullabulling Gold
Project from Norton Gold Fields Pty Ltd, a wholly owned subsidiary of Zijin Mining Group Co., Ltd.

I might need to take another trip to Kalgoorlie and help them move out, I'll take the sign as a little memento.

 

[Hodlandwin69]

I'm hoping that if there's any chance of avz selling out all together that they're looking at tax strategies... more specifically whether they can work out a way for shareholders to be selling shares and accessing cgt discount...rather than avz selling the project or its shares in glh etc.

Nothing obvious comes to mind however...

Brah, we're going mining

 

[Pokok]

Brah, we're going mining

Why would you think that , the writing is on the wall , I think if all shareholders are offered 50c well most would want to go mining as its worth a lot more offer $2 possibly not . OR what do you think the share price could be for all of us to go away ??

 

[Hodlandwin69]

Why would you think that , the writing is on the wall , I think if all shareholders are offered 50c well most would want to go mining as its worth a lot more offer $2 possibly not . OR what do you think the share price could be for all of us to go away ??

I just think the CATH deal suggests we're going mining, especially with full offtake agreements signed and option to buy 49% of LiOH plant. But could be wrong. But I'm keen to go mining, get a few more exploration permits under the belt and turn into a megalith African based mining company from Australia and retire young. Probably just dreaming

 

[Mr Inappropriate]

Why would you think that , the writing is on the wall , I think if all shareholders are offered 50c well most would want to go mining as its worth a lot more offer $2 possibly not . OR what do you think the share price could be for all of us to go away ??

$12

#FuckZijin

 

[Winenut]

$12....$12...$12!!

 

[cruiser51]

I'm stuck in 5th April 2022.
Share price was at or near its all time high.
My wife told me to sell.
I held.
Now my wife keeps taking me back to that date.

If all males and females were the same life would be utterly boring. It is the beauty of life.
We are supposed to supplement each other and enjoy life, not be the same.

You as a provider made a calculated decision to hold. Your abacus had a malfunction.
Holding, or selling both comes with a risk.
It could have gone either way.

You didn't have a crystal ball and you are lucky your missus didn't have one either.
She wouldn't have rubbed it into your face, but highly likely bashed your head in with it.
That is married life, full of fun and excitement.

However look at the bright side, if you would have sold for 1 cent to Shane's sailing mate, you would have lost a lot.
If AVZ comes good and the shares go up you will be your mother in law's hero.
That could be bloody scary.

Sleeping in the dog house isn't the best, but you have had heaps of time to built a bar and a stereo installation in it and there is more, you could have added an alfresco.
Be a little entrepreneur and enjoy the situation to the best of your ability.

So, if it takes a little longer enjoy life on the edge in your own private space, the dog will love you for it.
If you are down, kicked out of the house and in the bad books with the mother in law, there is a lot of potential for improvement.

 

[Carlos Danger]

$6.2b USD

Funnily enough if you split the 2.5b - 10b (I assumed this was USD) down the middle you end up with 6.25b...... @Carlos Danger

Why would you think that , the writing is on the wall , I think if all shareholders are offered 50c well most would want to go mining as its worth a lot more offer $2 possibly not . OR what do you think the share price could be for all of us to go away ??

6.2 - 30% = 4.34

4.34 x 1.63 = 7.0742

7.0742 / 3.5287 = 2.00

 

[Carlos Danger]

Sorry here is the full post

Guys,
There is nothing in the announcement which suggests AVZ has dropped the litigation because of negotiations with the DRC. What was stated is that AVZ has a revised JV and new funding arrangement with CATH and no longer needs to draw upon the Locke Litigation funding facility.

Lets not forget who is funding and running the DRC's legal process. The corrupt Zijin Mining Group and its lawyers who have been collaboratively working with Cominiere. This bunch of criminals don't get a seat at the negotiation table with CATH, AVZ and the DRC Govt.

The restructured partnership with CATH is the window for the DRC to accelerate the development of the Manono project as well as validate AVZ's legal claims and strategy. The DRC wants to build the Mine and get this into production in 2026. This new arrangement is the only way of achieving this. The Litigation process will delay this indefinitely and be enormously costly to the DRC along with the ongoing demise in their reputation.

Also, to cancel the Arbitration process would be to allow Cominiere and the DRC to walk away without any penalties being imposed. At the very least the $Millions they owe us should be an integral part of any negotiation up and until the final date (target date Feb 7) by which the fees are required to be paid for the ICSID Tribunal hearing, scheduled for June.

The Pre completion funding agreement stipulates the Drawdowns are scheduled by end of January. This is for the Litigation process. AVZ and CATH are committed to moving forward with this process if this is needed to get action to take place. The completion of the drawdowns is scheduled in December 2026 as part of the funding agreement. This is firmly stated. There is no compromise on this strategy.
So the fines which have been increasing each day on the DRC, and now amount to in excess of $70M are not going to be waived.
The DRC needs to get its act together swiftly before the end of January and advance the negotiations to grant the Mining Licence to Dathcom (AVZi) now or risk it all at the ICSID Arbitration hearing. It is the only way the Manono Project (area covered by PR 13359) is going to get off the ground and be operational before 2027. Zijin will definitely not be part of this outcome.

90 days from November 7th is February 5th not February 7th

The 'hearing' in June at the ICSID is the initial hearing and won't be anywhere near the final outcome

Nigel himself said this process won't be wrapped up until end of 2026 or even possibly 2027 so if the DRC government want this in production by 2026 then a deal has to be struck or we will all be still in the same situation for at least the next 2 years

Zijin will launch arbitration against the DRC government if they are excluded and they would win the case

Therefore the only way this all moves forward imminently and the mine is operational before 2027 is with Green Lithium Holdings in the south and Manono Lithium in the north imo

 

[kulturica]

When we get the mining licence, I think that we shouldn't accept any offers before we get relisted on the ASX. Then bidding war can start and we can benefit from CTG discount.

 

[kulturica]

CGT

 

[DiscoDanNZ]

When we get the mining licence, I think that we shouldn't accept any offers before we get relisted on the ASX. Then bidding war can start and we can benefit from CTG discount.

Do we need to be listed to get CGT discount?

 

[Carlos Danger]

Do we need to be listed to get CGT discount?

A capital gain event for tax purposes is when an asset is disposed of

So we need to be listed for that to occur for shareholders

If we get bought out before relisting the only way profits can be disbursed to shareholders is via a special dividend

A special dividend is not a disposal of an asset for shareholders therefore no cgt discount

Could potentially come with some franking credits tho

 

[kulturica]

Do we need to be listed to get CGT discount?

Hmm not sure. If we sell the project or shares in GLH probably we won't get the CGT discount. But if we are bought as a private company I really hope we still get the CGT discount. I was just thinking after getting the mining licence and some offers on the table that waiting to get relisted on ASX would give us more attention and hype

 

[kulturica]

Hmm not sure. If we sell the project or shares in GLH probably we won't get the CGT discount. But if we are bought as a private company I really hope we still get the CGT discount. I was just thinking after getting the mining licence and some offers on the table that waiting to get relisted on ASX would give us more attention and hype

Thanks Carlos for clarification

 

[Bonsoir]

A capital gain event for tax purposes is when an asset is disposed of

So we need to be listed for that to occur for shareholders

If we get bought out before relisting the only way profits can be disbursed to shareholders is via a special dividend

A special dividend is not a disposal of an asset for shareholders therefore no cgt discount

Could potentially come with some franking credits tho

Best check with an accountant, if we are bought out before we relist we still have a purchase date and a sale date so my view is no difference to any other investment that has GST discount implications.

 

[Thaz]

Best check with an accountant, if we are bought out before we relist we still have a purchase date and a sale date so my view is no difference to any other investment that has GST discount implications.

*CGT Implications

Being listed vs non-listed has no implications as to whether or not the shares are eligible for the General CGT Discount. It is affected by the entity you hold shares (Individual vs Company vs Trust vs SMSF), and how long you hold the shares (at least 12 months).

If the assets are sold - the funds can be returned by way of either a return of capital and a dividend.

RE: Price to be sold, i'd say $22 to account for inflation.