Cumquat Cap
Regular
Everyone jump on C and make some noise, all we can do currently
AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
- Start date
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X*
Carlos Danger
Top 20
Agreed. I just think that shareholders deserve to know how long it could possibly take and management haven't done a great job at explaining that. Whether sooner or later I am extremely confident we will get a positive result at some point as the key facts are on our side imo
Carlos Danger
Top 20
I meant more generally than any specific issue. There is just a culture of denial, rumour spreading and poo pooing of questions among shareholders that I find unhealthy.
Even thou I felt I was clear that it was just speculation you were right to call me out for unchecked positive speculation when it was announced via tweet that the MoM had issued a new decree early last year. I thought perhaps it was good news and you said I had nothing to base that on and it turned out you were right and that our licence had been purportedly cancelled. So I'm not immune to this myself.
And yeah I do understand why it happens. This has been an extremely stressful situation and the clown car of detractors we have had to deal with that spread constant disinformation in their attempt to steal the project has put people in a us vs them posture. I still support the bod (and am pretty sure I was the first to warn on this forum at least that the barbarians would attempt to storm the gate) but I have said from day one that I will call them out if I feel they have done something wrong.
As far as I know the next ICC decision should be Cominiere penalty liquidation or Dathomir merit ruling. Should both be somewhat soon imo
Frank
Top 20
Zijin vows to keep investing in Canadian mining despite crackdown
Zijin Mining Group Co., China’s most valuable mining company, says it won’t be deterred by the Canadian government’s measures to limit foreign involvement in its mining sector.
The Chinese gold and copper producer will “absolutely” continue to seek out investments in Canadian mining companies — especially junior exploration firms, Zijin vice president Shaoyang Shen said in a Tuesday interview at Denver Gold Group’s annual conference in Colorado.
“Canada has some of the best mineral exploration companies in the world,” he said.
“As world leaders, I believe it’s in our best interests to work together.”
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s government has sought to restrict mining deals involving foreign state-owned entities for nearly two years in efforts widely seen as targeting China’s dominance in the global critical minerals supply chain.
A series of rules and restrictions hasn’t stopped junior mining firms based in Canada from seeking out Chinese capital to back expensive and risky projects passed over by Canadian investors.
Zijin, one of China’s most acquisitive metals groups, has repeatedly clashed with Canada’s government over mining deals.
The firm failed to buy a 15% stake in Vancouver-based Solaris Resources Inc. earlier this year after facing a lengthy regulatory review.
The state-owned firm also challenged a government review of its plan to buy a Peruvian gold mine from Pan American Silver Corp.
China’s investments have provided capital to small mining firms when critical minerals have become an essential element in the transition away from fossil fuels.
Metals including lithium, copper, nickel and cobalt are key components of electric vehicles, solar panels and wind turbines, and countries including Canada and the US are pushing to build supply chains to reduce China’s dominance in the industry.
Shen’s comments echo sentiments expressed in March by China’s ambassador to Canada, who called Trudeau’s crackdown on foreign investment in mining “unfortunate” and “wrong.”
“It is our view — and I think most of our peers here agree — that market-based transactions without political interference have benefited all parties and contributed to better projects for resource development,” Shen said.
mining.com
*To remind,
China is hopeless at exploring, explore for us and then if you find something we will steal what you find".
Without AVZ this deposit would not have been evaluated in decades because the Chinese cannot find a fish in a fish tank full of fish.
Food for thought
Frank
Cumquat Cap
Regular
USA just announced a MoU with DRC, Angola, Zambia, world bank and EU to build the Lobito corridor - one would think it’s unlikely they will allow Zijin to steal the spodumene, all very confusing
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Regular
Schnitzelfresser
Member
If there is cash on hand the DRC is going to sign a MOU with everyone
Samus
Top 20
The world's most expensive piece of toilet paper!If there is cash on hand the DRC is going to sign a MOU with everyone
Zijin vows to keep investing in Canadian mining despite crackdown
Zijin Mining Group Co., China’s most valuable mining company, says it won’t be deterred by the Canadian government’s measures to limit foreign involvement in its mining sector.
The Chinese gold and copper producer will “absolutely” continue to seek out investments in Canadian mining companies — especially junior exploration firms, Zijin vice president Shaoyang Shen said in a Tuesday interview at Denver Gold Group’s annual conference in Colorado.
“Canada has some of the best mineral exploration companies in the world,” he said.
“As world leaders, I believe it’s in our best interests to work together.”
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s government has sought to restrict mining deals involving foreign state-owned entities for nearly two years in efforts widely seen as targeting China’s dominance in the global critical minerals supply chain.
A series of rules and restrictions hasn’t stopped junior mining firms based in Canada from seeking out Chinese capital to back expensive and risky projects passed over by Canadian investors.
Zijin, one of China’s most acquisitive metals groups, has repeatedly clashed with Canada’s government over mining deals.
The firm failed to buy a 15% stake in Vancouver-based Solaris Resources Inc. earlier this year after facing a lengthy regulatory review.
The state-owned firm also challenged a government review of its plan to buy a Peruvian gold mine from Pan American Silver Corp.
China’s investments have provided capital to small mining firms when critical minerals have become an essential element in the transition away from fossil fuels.
Metals including lithium, copper, nickel and cobalt are key components of electric vehicles, solar panels and wind turbines, and countries including Canada and the US are pushing to build supply chains to reduce China’s dominance in the industry.
Shen’s comments echo sentiments expressed in March by China’s ambassador to Canada, who called Trudeau’s crackdown on foreign investment in mining “unfortunate” and “wrong.”
“It is our view — and I think most of our peers here agree — that market-based transactions without political interference have benefited all parties and contributed to better projects for resource development,” Shen said.
mining.com
*To remind,
China is hopeless at exploring, explore for us and then if you find something we will steal what you find".
Without AVZ this deposit would not have been evaluated in decades because the Chinese cannot find a fish in a fish tank full of fish.
Food for thought
Frank
I wonder whether the lobito inititiative is used as leverage for Manono ?
I wonder whether the USA has had chats with AVZ ?
World bank included in the equation too.......hmmm.
Not confusing.........very intriguing if you asked me.
Well Beisha , not sure about much I have read over the last 5 days but one thing is for sure I woke up with a little headache after a great night out with another AVZ holder Guru Dukun in Jogyakarta Java and we both agreed it's a waiting game , the discussion lasted only 10 mins as we did not want to fuck a great night out , plenty of beer and home made vodka was had , thanks for the catch up mate .
Bin59
Regular
An interesting post by Anatol - AVZ might be the only lithium developer in the DRC that would be prepared to meet the new EU Batteries Regulation 2023/1542 being imposed by the EU (who are also signatories to the MOU for the Lobito-Corridor) in 2025.
This new regulation coming into force in 2025 might also be a catalyst for a better outcome for AVZ in any negotiations when the lithium prices are likely to be considerably higher than they are today.
anatol
5,996 Posts. 21725
19/09/24 16:23 Post #: 75749164
China is in big trouble with "EU Batteries Regulation" which comes into full force in 2025.
(I actually posted a lot of info about this issue on my Post #: 73231359 on Apr. 8 2024)
This is serious guys. (Very good for us but bad for the Chinese).
I mean the implications of EU's Batteries Regulation which is coming into full force in 2025 for China is going to be very serious. EU announced the regulation in July 2023 with its timeframe but there was no immediate impact for the manufacturers even in 2024. However it was obvious that it was going to be a major impact in 2025.
This is really serious guys.
The new EU Batteries Regulation 2023/1542 covers the whole lifecycle of batteries from production to reuse and recycling.
The battery manufacturers will basically have to get a Battery passport for their batteries.
It sets out new obligations for manufacturers depending on the battery type, such as:
Carbon footprint declaration: (most important part)
Encouraging the use of low-carbon technology in battery manufacturing to support the EU's goal of achieving climate neutrality by 2050.
Due diligence disclosures (Responsible sourcing): (2nd most important part)
Promoting the responsible and ethical sourcing of battery materials by setting minimum requirements for supply chain due diligence disclosures.
Extended producer responsibility (EPR): (very important)
Reinforcing the obligations of battery producers by holding them accountable for the environmental impacts across the lifecycle of their products.
Recycled content requirements: (Another serious issue - A big topic to talk about separately)
Aiming to reinforce the recycling and collection of batteries by establishing higher recycling targets and implementing an efficient take-back system for waste batteries
Sustainability:
Seeking to ensure the sustainable design and production of batteries for;
Performance and durability requirements:
Removability and replaceability obligations:
Labels with information on capacity and duration of use, etc.
See EU Batteries Regulation timeline below. The new regulations will come to full force very soon.
"European Union Adopts a New Batteries Regulation" July 25 2023
"New EU Batteries Regulation: what it means for manufacturers" Dec. 8 2023
"Navigating the New EU Batteries Regulation: A Roadmap for Manufacturers" Aug.23 2024
The timeline below provides a non-exhaustive overview of deadlines set out in the EU Batteries Regulation. (Red marking and writing are mine)
The countdown is on..!
Now we are coming to the end of 2024.
Do you think the Chinese battery and EV producers are already ready to comply with western regulations in 2025 and beyond if they still;
producing lithium from lepidolite and other high carbon footprint resources, without responsible and ethical sourcing, without caring about environmental impacts,without caring about performance and durability requirements?
This regulation is nothing to do with the increased customs tariffs for the Chinese EVs. It's coming as another hurdle on top of the high customs tariffs.
ESG credentials are also coming on top all these hurdles for the Chinese.
I will talk about it later on. LTR has the best ESG credential and very low carbon footprint for its lithium spodumene concentrate as you know. (60% plus energy is coming from renewables)
Not many people paid any attention to EU's Batteries Regulation implications for China. But I can tell you clearly that;
CHINA WON'T BE ABLE TO SELL ANY OF ITS LFP BATTERIES (produced from lepidolite mines) TO EU MARKET BECAUSE OF VERY HIGH CARBON FOOTPRINT OF LFP BATTERIES.
I believe the US too will bring similar regulations soon.
China will have to close most of its LEPIDOLITE LITHIUM MINES and REFINERIES.
That's why CATL has already closed it key lepidolite mine IMO.
CATL might be still keep that mine producing at little loss because it's be keeping the lithium price down. However CATL already has some other lepidolite mines producing for it. They can use that dirty lithium coming from those mines for making batteries to sell to its own market and third world countries in Asia-Pacific, Africa, South America and Middle East. However the volume of those sales can't be compared with the volume of sales to the Western markets.
Also CATL is the largest battery producer int he world by a 37% market shares. BYD comes after that by 15% share but not even close. So, CATL as a market leader, supplying to Tesla, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Ford (gigafactory JV), etc. CATL also targets to supply EV-Truck market and works with Daimler Truck Holding AG, Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles and Volvo.
That means CATL is world's leading battery provider and has to comply with EU Batteries Regulation.
WHAT ABOUT BYD WHICH IS THE 2nd LARGEST BATTERY & EV PRODUCER?
BYD is not the same for now but it will also have to comply with EU Batteries Regulation if it wants to sell its EVs in the EU. BYD sells most of its EV production inside China, however it's now increasing its EV exports to many other countries. We can see BYD started setting up EV factories in developing countries like Thailand, Türkiye, etc. But that would not be enough for BYD to increase its sales volumes in these countries.
THE EU AND US MARKETS ARE THE LARGEST IN THE WORLD, BUT GETTING SMALLER FOR THE CHINESE MANUFACTURERS
Therefore both CATL and BYD have to increase their sales in these large markets. While Tesla is the best selling EV in both EU and US markets, CATL and BYD can't be idle or these markets.
Those companies making production in China, certainly including CATL and BYD didn't care about carbon footprint and ESG credentials so far. They just increased their production by lowering the sale price of their products, while lowering the their input costs like lithium but didn't care about anything else. They played a lot of games for lowering the lithium price btw.
But now the road ends here for the Chinese battery manufacturers.
CHINESE BATTERY MANUFACTURERS HAVE TO BUY AUSTRALIAN SPOD CONCENTRATE.
THEY HAVE TO BUY A LOT.
THEY HAVE TO PAY THE FAIR PRICE FOR IT
This new regulation coming into force in 2025 might also be a catalyst for a better outcome for AVZ in any negotiations when the lithium prices are likely to be considerably higher than they are today.
anatol
5,996 Posts. 21725
19/09/24 16:23 Post #: 75749164
China is in big trouble with "EU Batteries Regulation" which comes into full force in 2025.
(I actually posted a lot of info about this issue on my Post #: 73231359 on Apr. 8 2024)
This is serious guys. (Very good for us but bad for the Chinese).
I mean the implications of EU's Batteries Regulation which is coming into full force in 2025 for China is going to be very serious. EU announced the regulation in July 2023 with its timeframe but there was no immediate impact for the manufacturers even in 2024. However it was obvious that it was going to be a major impact in 2025.
This is really serious guys.
The new EU Batteries Regulation 2023/1542 covers the whole lifecycle of batteries from production to reuse and recycling.
The battery manufacturers will basically have to get a Battery passport for their batteries.
It sets out new obligations for manufacturers depending on the battery type, such as:
Carbon footprint declaration: (most important part)
Encouraging the use of low-carbon technology in battery manufacturing to support the EU's goal of achieving climate neutrality by 2050.
Due diligence disclosures (Responsible sourcing): (2nd most important part)
Promoting the responsible and ethical sourcing of battery materials by setting minimum requirements for supply chain due diligence disclosures.
Extended producer responsibility (EPR): (very important)
Reinforcing the obligations of battery producers by holding them accountable for the environmental impacts across the lifecycle of their products.
Recycled content requirements: (Another serious issue - A big topic to talk about separately)
Aiming to reinforce the recycling and collection of batteries by establishing higher recycling targets and implementing an efficient take-back system for waste batteries
Sustainability:
Seeking to ensure the sustainable design and production of batteries for;
Performance and durability requirements:
Removability and replaceability obligations:
Labels with information on capacity and duration of use, etc.
See EU Batteries Regulation timeline below. The new regulations will come to full force very soon.
"European Union Adopts a New Batteries Regulation" July 25 2023
"New EU Batteries Regulation: what it means for manufacturers" Dec. 8 2023
"Navigating the New EU Batteries Regulation: A Roadmap for Manufacturers" Aug.23 2024
The timeline below provides a non-exhaustive overview of deadlines set out in the EU Batteries Regulation. (Red marking and writing are mine)
The countdown is on..!
Now we are coming to the end of 2024.
Do you think the Chinese battery and EV producers are already ready to comply with western regulations in 2025 and beyond if they still;
producing lithium from lepidolite and other high carbon footprint resources, without responsible and ethical sourcing, without caring about environmental impacts,without caring about performance and durability requirements?
This regulation is nothing to do with the increased customs tariffs for the Chinese EVs. It's coming as another hurdle on top of the high customs tariffs.
ESG credentials are also coming on top all these hurdles for the Chinese.
I will talk about it later on. LTR has the best ESG credential and very low carbon footprint for its lithium spodumene concentrate as you know. (60% plus energy is coming from renewables)
Not many people paid any attention to EU's Batteries Regulation implications for China. But I can tell you clearly that;
CHINA WON'T BE ABLE TO SELL ANY OF ITS LFP BATTERIES (produced from lepidolite mines) TO EU MARKET BECAUSE OF VERY HIGH CARBON FOOTPRINT OF LFP BATTERIES.
I believe the US too will bring similar regulations soon.
China will have to close most of its LEPIDOLITE LITHIUM MINES and REFINERIES.
That's why CATL has already closed it key lepidolite mine IMO.
CATL might be still keep that mine producing at little loss because it's be keeping the lithium price down. However CATL already has some other lepidolite mines producing for it. They can use that dirty lithium coming from those mines for making batteries to sell to its own market and third world countries in Asia-Pacific, Africa, South America and Middle East. However the volume of those sales can't be compared with the volume of sales to the Western markets.
Also CATL is the largest battery producer int he world by a 37% market shares. BYD comes after that by 15% share but not even close. So, CATL as a market leader, supplying to Tesla, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Ford (gigafactory JV), etc. CATL also targets to supply EV-Truck market and works with Daimler Truck Holding AG, Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles and Volvo.
That means CATL is world's leading battery provider and has to comply with EU Batteries Regulation.
WHAT ABOUT BYD WHICH IS THE 2nd LARGEST BATTERY & EV PRODUCER?
BYD is not the same for now but it will also have to comply with EU Batteries Regulation if it wants to sell its EVs in the EU. BYD sells most of its EV production inside China, however it's now increasing its EV exports to many other countries. We can see BYD started setting up EV factories in developing countries like Thailand, Türkiye, etc. But that would not be enough for BYD to increase its sales volumes in these countries.
THE EU AND US MARKETS ARE THE LARGEST IN THE WORLD, BUT GETTING SMALLER FOR THE CHINESE MANUFACTURERS
Therefore both CATL and BYD have to increase their sales in these large markets. While Tesla is the best selling EV in both EU and US markets, CATL and BYD can't be idle or these markets.
Those companies making production in China, certainly including CATL and BYD didn't care about carbon footprint and ESG credentials so far. They just increased their production by lowering the sale price of their products, while lowering the their input costs like lithium but didn't care about anything else. They played a lot of games for lowering the lithium price btw.
But now the road ends here for the Chinese battery manufacturers.
CHINESE BATTERY MANUFACTURERS HAVE TO BUY AUSTRALIAN SPOD CONCENTRATE.
THEY HAVE TO BUY A LOT.
THEY HAVE TO PAY THE FAIR PRICE FOR IT
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