AVZ Discussion 2022

[Doc]

Anyone is aware of the statement made by the chairman at the hearing?

https://x.com/ulli_from_eze/status/1710661671218266435?s=12

Why can’t he just say the f’ing statement!?

 

[9cardomaha]

Anyone is aware of the statement made by the chairman at the hearing?

https://x.com/ulli_from_eze/status/1710661671218266435?s=12

Pretty sure there is a transcript of the ICC chairman's closing statement floating around, will see if i can get my hands on a copy.

Just a few updates on the entire jurisdictional hearing for everyone - ZJ did show up, and basically called every witness they could conceive to the stand. Including my sister-in-law's, boyfriend's best friend's counsin's weasel.

CKK was a planned witness for ZJ but i haven't confirmed his appearance (last i heard he didn't have a valid visa for France) and I can confirm ZJ's Kinsasha rep was there Mr Xie - we all know ZJs arguments for the 15% is filled with falsehoods and bullshit so won't rehash it here, its all just fucking stupid, but that didn't stop them from kitchen sinking their testimonies.

Verdict on whether ICC has jurisdiction and whether the case will be withdrawn on these grounds is expected to be finalised BEFORE w/c november 6.

Personal views (take it or leave it):

The arbitrator is a wildcard with some questionable decisions on extensions and delays in favour of ZJ thus far, so it's not a simple open-and-shut "fuck off Zijin" situation yet. However, recent decisions by the arbitrator (declining request for consolidation, declining request for even longer extensions) show that the arbitrator is likely seeing through the ZJ bullshit and hopefully can rule in our favour.

80+% likelihood of obtaining favourable ruling on jurisdiction is my view given the above.

 

[timb89]

Not gonna lie I had a mates bday tonight and we got on the bags so I spoke my mind more honestly than I usually would. If that's possible haha. In my ingested exuberance I accidentally forgot the other parts of the notes (I have a group chat that I use as a repository for AVZ info and these notes were split into 3). Massive thank you to whoever took these notes at the AGM last year and my apologies for not giving you credit whenever I have used sections of them as they are a great insight into how our situation has changed since then. My main purpose of sharing this now are the following 2 questions.

1. Given over 6 months since decree, doesn’t it concern you that your belief in high level support is ill founded?

2. What happens if percentage conflicts doesn’t go our way?

Enjoy the answers

View attachment 46549

From last years AGM:

Here’s an overview of how things went down for those who couldn’t attend. Nothing particularly new. NF presentation exuded confidence as also, however I wasn’t convinced that we are ‘Imminent’ for ML. A few points he mentioned about difficulties suggests to me that we aren’t just awaiting formalities or anything like that, but that the fight remains well and truly on.

2022 AVZ Annual General Meeting Notes

Chairman’s address: Some milestones were reached, however also some unexpected delays beyond company control. We affirm that we legally hold 75% interest. Have purchased some critical equipment. Our project progress and a buoyant lithium price boosted our SP to record highs this year. Despite highlights, voluntary suspension entered pending award of ML. Awarding unexpectedly delayed, unissued by CAMI in addition to disputes over the mining/exploration rights. Attracted unwanted global attention given scale of resource, third parties trying to join the game unlawfully. Claims spurious, hold no legal basis. Continuing to engage at the highest levels. Granting of ML catalyst to lift suspension. NF working tirelessly to defend the project this year. Extremely frustrating times for us all. AVZ still well sited however to develop one of the world’s most significant lithium mine.

THE NOTES IN MY PREVIOUS POST SHOULD GO HERE

We are revising the wheel of the original route used in the Belgian tin mine. North from Manono on either the road (needing refurb) or river to rail, traveling to port of Kalemie in Dar es Salaam. It’s operational. Transport does work, but needs to be upskilled and upscaled from 500 tonne a week -> 5000 tonne a week. Need to change gauge too

Central corridors logistic study is underway, through consultants. With logistics optimization plan

Why PLS – higher value product. Reduce shipping tonnes. Targeting Europe (reducing waste). 90-94 percent product, 6-10 percent waste. Low waste approach – waste included into landfill in Manono. Ongoing studies with hydroxide conversion which are looking good. SC6to PLS 4:1

Very comfortable with expansion of operations. 10mil tonne study underway – need to fill in details and fill in funding plan for that.

2 PLS plants planned – jumping potentially into Hydroxide plant somewhere

Early works – Colleen ready for 120 rooms by Dec. 130 more by April/May. Employing quite a few people. Disregard the nonsense on HC and Twitter that we’ve only done some huts and aren’t spending on the camp.

We’ll need to expand manpower significantly as soon as ML awarded

We aren’t messing around with bad actors in DRC, we’re meeting with the highest level

We are as keen to get the ML as you are, we’re all SH’s too and are struggling with it too.

Question and Answer Session:

Who’ll be looking at Biofuel:

A: Sugar Cane possible to create ethanol – we’ll be inviting people in the SEZ to help with biofuel needs

Who is the doing the 10mil study

A: Works being managed in-house with consultants, also outsourced through engineer companies used previously. We’re comfortable with them

How do you see the development shaping up / staged, or straight into the 10?

A: With expansion, it’d be silly not to start off with a bigger bang, if we’re supported in that. When it comes to processing though, we’ll be ramping up over time. Wrinkles to get out of the way first, transport, materials etc.

What happened after ML Decree, spurious yet we’re in suspension. What’s the main issue for ML – is it Dathomir, is Zijin ICC arbitration 15, dispute with exploration rights?

A: Lot of players in vogue here in country, lot of hatchet jobs being done – President had a bad view from being ill advised by detractors (e.g. we hadn’t done anything, didn’t have money experience, and were speculators). Detractors continuing, but slowly slowly we’re working to remove the blocks.

We knew Chinese would have a crack, but we did not expect parts of DRC government to be in on it?

A: Nor did we - “we thought it was gambit by Chinese groups to get project cheapest way. We weren’t aware it was also elements of the government complicit. We can’t go into it, but rest assured those people are being turned over within meetings with real information is being shared, and people put on the spot.

Collusion between all those 3 – namely Zijin, Cominiere, CAMI?

A: That would be astute thought

Issue that a portion of mines directorate said we hadn’t done the work on the northern tenement area, and shouldn’t get the north?

A: That’s not within the mining code. So 13359 should be retained in its entirety – however the northern area may need to come under a separate exploration tenement, even though that’s not the established process. – We know who’s behind this (e.g. DG CAMI)

What about AJN having a crack

A: “their premise is that we’ve returned the northern tenement to government. We haven’t. Draw a conclusion out of that”. I was a founding director and bought in as gold explorer. Found out late in the piece for a lithium plan – stepped away as soon as learned that. Shares bought before that lithium plan came into play. No conflict of interest.

SEZ/BFS delays?

A: The BFS will come out in good order, still gathering information on that. CATH keen for expansion plan – wanting to be no1 hydroxide producer in China. 10 Mpta output makes sense.

Directors insurance going from 90k to 500k, why?

A: no claims against us, the rise is because we’ve developed size wise. It’ll rise further when we’re developing

Interview NF mentioned once mentioned once decree issued 10 day period before Court could issue the licence. What happened?

A: This was a misunderstanding. As soon as your documentation was in order and issued, this talk of periods was regarding the ministerial decree. Other steps in way of ML – CAMI have held up the invoicing, illegally in our view.

FIRB knocking back deal with Yibin Tianyi - if oz govt see national interest what input have they had in support and has board sought them out?

A: NF in discussions with ambassador in Harare, but she’s very limited in what can be done with private companies. She can grab a minister and ask for updates, but we’re unable to do much more than that.

Given over 6 months since decree, doesn’t it concern you that your belief in high level support is ill founded?

A: NF - not from what I’ve seen and our visits. Very select group of govt officials have been working as a coalition to extract what they can out of this, corruptly, and misinform the senior people. Id be surprised if you don’t see changes coming up, with some of the public platform announcements coming out of a certain ministry shouldn’t be done (nothing to do with her). On the senior side of things, NF is even more confident now than he was 6 months ago that the right thing will be done

Major Equipment needs and long lead items ordered?

A: nothing done as yet, comes down to what size we are going to go down for. Yes, there’s some items we need to put down – but we don’t know yet 4.5 or 10. We’re mindful of it.

Is there tribal attachment behind the blockage?

A: don’t think it’s a tribal thing at all/ Purely a fact of opportunists that have done a great job that we’re having to unwind. I think we’re just about there and will have what we need coming shortly. And those people will be taken care of.

Any ML ETA?

A: ETA TBA. (laughter)

What happens if percentage conflicts doesn’t go our way?

A: I don’t think we’ll entertain a contingency, we are adamant in our JV rights. And JV is clear too that Cominere to cede 10% with the government. With CATH they are after security over product. The 24% is flexible. We wont wait for ICC for ML. 100% confident the ICC will turn over Jin Cheng. Expecting a blush moment for Zijin because proceedings will be public.

When will RD drilling results be ready?

A: probably March 2022. Geotechnical appraisal being done on the side, needed specialist support. That latter process will take as long as it takes to update reserves. Hopefully up to 300 million tons to help support a larger operation. Increase reserves is intended in part to increase SP.

Plant Construction time?

A: Two year build process – not a lot of difference between 4.5/10 mil construction. 10 mil would be ramped.

DRC export rule of raw material?

A: Chinese being hauled over the coals for continuing to export copper concentrate. Its something we need to be mindful of, but remember it’s a bulk commodity, and we intend to progressively move more and more to PLS

What’s the status of the Battery Council?

A: Out of our control. My understanding is that discussions are ongoing, including where SEZ will be located for Battery Development. We hope to have a say in what’s going on – hopefully supply our product to it whether PLS or even hydroxide.

Do we have enough manpower?

A: For current construction, yes. We’ll be bringing more people in when we have more certainty – and certainty is ML.

Why have we been inactive on social media?

A: No comment. There’s no need for airing dirty laundry, doesn’t serve any purpose. That’s our plan til ML delivered. Maybe down the line you’ll see some fireworks

Production schedule changed?

A: delayed yes. Perhaps mid-2024. If we get licenses quickly

You were at Sydney I take it, these sound very familiar.

 

[Carlos Danger]

You were at Sydney I take it, these sound very familiar.

No I didn't attend the AGM or any of the roadshows. These notes are from the AGM and were posted on here or the crapper by someone else at the time. I think it was @JAG but not 100% sure.

 

[geo_au]

It was 1 mil officially. Unless you emailed and asked for permission in which case it was dropped a bit depending on who you were. I'm just under 300k but am sure I would have been able to get a seat if I really wanted one. Which I didn't.

One is considered a major shareholder if they hold 800,000 or more and to my knowledge nothing has changed.

 

[Dazmac66]

Struggle to comprehend how witnesses can have an impact on the decision? Surely it comes down to following due process and appropriate documentation. Waiting with anticipation for 9card to post chairman's statement if possible as I doubt AVZ would find the time to feed the mushrooms. Interesting week ahead.

 

[oxxa23]

One is considered a major shareholder if they hold 800,000 or more and to my knowledge nothing has changed.

I had 800k in my trust and 100k in super and didn't get an invite... phoned up and was allowed to go, initial soft cap was 1m

 

[9cardomaha]

Struggle to comprehend how witnesses can have an impact on the decision?

Cunt 3: We delay, confuse, while behind the scenes we move. The more time we have the more chance we have of success. Delay delay delay.

I loled

 

[Roon]

Old mate CKK's comments on X (who some believe to be a fake account, but given his antics I think is probably legit) suggests that he did deliver testimony. Looking forward to seeing the outcome, should point the path forward. Glad to hear Zijin showed up, I actually kind of expected they might pull out last minute like I wish I had done with my last girlfriend.

 

[Bin59]

Articles about witness statements in International Arbitration. Hopefully we had witnesses of our own.

Witness Statements in International Arbitration • Aceris Law

www.acerislaw.com

New ICC report takes bold move to tackle unreliability of witness testimony

The report analyses the psychological science of human memory, and offers arbitrators and counsel guidance to enhance the probative value of fact witness evidence

iccwbo.org

 

[geo_au]

Anyone is aware of the statement made by the chairman at the hearing?

https://x.com/ulli_from_eze/status/1710661671218266435?s=12

sf120
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08/10/23
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Comminiere certainly active on Twitter and very angry, feels like it's not gone in their direction
AVZ Price at posting: 78.0¢ Sentiment: Buy Disclosure: Held

 

[Winenut]

 

[BEISHA]

You were at Sydney I take it, these sound very familiar.

The AGM was in Perth and the notes are pretty much spot on from my memory of being there.

I am sure @Scoota30 and @tonster66 would agree.

 

[BEISHA]

Pretty sure there is a transcript of the ICC chairman's closing statement floating around, will see if i can get my hands on a copy.

Just a few updates on the entire jurisdictional hearing for everyone - ZJ did show up, and basically called every witness they could conceive to the stand. Including my sister-in-law's, boyfriend's best friend's counsin's weasel.

CKK was a planned witness for ZJ but i haven't confirmed his appearance (last i heard he didn't have a valid visa for France) and I can confirm ZJ's Kinsasha rep was there Mr Xie - we all know ZJs arguments for the 15% is filled with falsehoods and bullshit so won't rehash it here, its all just fucking stupid, but that didn't stop them from kitchen sinking their testimonies.

Verdict on whether ICC has jurisdiction and whether the case will be withdrawn on these grounds is expected to be finalised BEFORE w/c november 6.

Personal views (take it or leave it):

The arbitrator is a wildcard with some questionable decisions on extensions and delays in favour of ZJ thus far, so it's not a simple open-and-shut "fuck off Zijin" situation yet. However, recent decisions by the arbitrator (declining request for consolidation, declining request for even longer extensions) show that the arbitrator is likely seeing through the ZJ bullshit and hopefully can rule in our favour.

80+% likelihood of obtaining favourable ruling on jurisdiction is my view given the above.

"ZJ did show up, and basically called every witness they could conceive to the stand".

What a joke, this is all about legal documentation and abiding by the DRC mining code......simples.

 

[Roon]

The AGM was in Perth and the notes are pretty much spot on from my memory of being there.

I am sure @Scoota30 and @tonster66 would agree.

Yah these were my AGM notes, I jotted them down on computer whilst listening online so they should be relatively close, with some margin of error drawn partly from whiskeys consumed and more directly by my perennial inability to learn touch typing at school

 

[BRICK]

View attachment 46570

Will the AGM include this slide?

 

[Winenut]

Isn't the ICC case currently at hand between Jin Cheng and AVZI?

Zijin did not actually bring this case to arbitration.......Jin Cheng did

And isn't that specifically the crux of the jurisdictional arguement from AVZI to get it thrown out?

ie That Jin Cheng cannot bring this case to arbitration as it is NOT a partner in the Dathcom JV

If AVZI gets the result it hopes for and thinks it should all that happens here is Jin Cheng is told by the ICC "Sorry guys fuck off....this has nothing to do with you as you are not part of the Dathcom JV".......NEXT!

Or am I missing something?....

 

[Winenut]

Will the AGM include this slide?

Only if it also includes your avatar

 

[9cardomaha]

Isn't the ICC case currently at hand between Jin Cheng and AVZI?

Zijin did not actually bring this case to arbitration.......Jin Cheng did

And isn't that specifically the crux of the jurisdictional arguement from AVZI to get it thrown out?

ie That Jin Cheng cannot bring this case to arbitration as it is NOT a partner in the Dathcom JV

If AVZI gets the result it hopes for and thinks it should all that happens here is Jin Cheng is told by the ICC "Sorry guys fuck off....this has nothing to do with you as you are not part of the Dathcom JV".......NEXT!

Or am I missing something?....

you are correct - i just use ZJ because its easier than Jin Cheng... they are the same.

ie That Jin Cheng cannot bring this case to arbitration as it is NOT a partner in the Dathcom JV - while this is the gist of the issue, there is a subtle difference to remember, we are arguing that the ICC does not have jurisdiction because of the above. Burden of proof in this instance is more on ZJ i think.

 

[wombat74]

Isn't the ICC case currently at hand between Jin Cheng and AVZI?

Zijin did not actually bring this case to arbitration.......Jin Cheng did

And isn't that specifically the crux of the jurisdictional arguement from AVZI to get it thrown out?

ie That Jin Cheng cannot bring this case to arbitration as it is NOT a partner in the Dathcom JV

If AVZI gets the result it hopes for and thinks it should all that happens here is Jin Cheng is told by the ICC "Sorry guys fuck off....this has nothing to do with you as you are not part of the Dathcom JV".......NEXT!

Or am I missing something?....

"It should be noted that this does not finally determine whether the sale of shares from Cominière to Jin Cheng was effective, which will remain to be determined in separate proceedings". AVZ Minerals .

At what point does Nigel lock in ICSID ? Must be getting very close . They will just continue to f--k us around .