AVZ Discussion 2022

[Juba1845]

Legal action is nothing . Mining minister already cancel everything. Cominiere same . What legal action can do? Another company will come and have it . Different name only but same.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Legal action is nothing . Mining minister already cancel everything. Cominiere same . What legal action can do? Another company will come and have it . Different name only but same.

Disputes between shareholders of a JV as a reason for cancellation of a PE is unknown to the DRC mining code. Will look like an awfully silly excuse at the ICSID if AVZ wins the cases at the ICC especially since it was done after the IGF report. But you already know that. Damages of 10b USD and no access to world bank funds should make the MoM follow her own mining code imo

 

[Sammy_da_Smile]

Legal action is nothing . Mining minister already cancel everything. Cominiere same . What legal action can do? Another company will come and have it . Different name only but same.

 

[Strongman]

It's been a long road to get here so here is a recap of how we arrived at this point for those unsure of the facts of the case

It all started back on October 2 2019 when AVZ approached the former MoP (not the green lady) about his opinion on us purchasing the 15% of Dathcom from Cominiere. Note this offer was made before the DFS so the market value was unknown at the time.

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This was his response on February 18 2020. Note his reference to the DFS being completed before the sale and the DRC government's intent to hold a working session to determine this matter.

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Fast forward to July 21 2021 and AVZ are contacted by Cominiere about giving an opinion on an offer they have received from Zijin for the 15%. They also ask us for an advance on dividends which can only be described as batshit insane. Crucially no price for the proposed acquisition is given by Cominiere despite market value now being known from the DFS which was released in April 2020.

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Here is AVZ's response through our lawyers on August 4th 2021 to Cominiere's request for an opinion on Zijin buying 15% of Dathcom. Note the reference to the MoP letter from February 2020. Crucially this was sent to Cominiere within the 40 day window outlined in Article 9.1 (b) of the Dathcom JVA. Cominiere never responded to this letter.

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After the 40 days expired the purported acquisition by Jin Cheng was approved and registered in the RCCM. AVZ was never given the opportunity to execute it's pre-emptive right. AVZ submitted its offer to the DRC government for the 15% after the 40 days had expired. This was done at the market value established in the DFS.

Finally in mid 2022 the DRC's financial watchdog completed its investigation into the purported sale. This was released to the public in December 2022. The findings were damning for Zijin, Cominiere and the new MoP. Most egregious was the price of 33.4m USD which was below the market value established in the DFS which resulted in a loss of revenue for the DRC of 120.7m USD. in early 2023 an audio was released of Zijin and CKK discussing extra personal payments to facilitate this sale.

View attachment 46255

Patriotism 101 is don't rat fuck your own people by taking a bribe from foreigners for personal gain. This is also being considered by the ICC as the original hearing in July was pushed back to this week so Zijin could have time to respond to AVZ allegations in court that the purported sale from Cominiere to Zijin was also tainted by corruption.

I'm no big city fancy lawyer but my opinion is that Zijin are completely fucked

Thanks Carlos for putting all that up there. Is clear as day that Zijin and Cominiere dont have a chance in hell of winning. The only caveat to that is the fact we are operating in the DRC and the Chinese not having the checks and balances of a law abiding Australian domiciled public company are quite happy to do anything to win. I dont know anything about the ICC but do hope they are above the brown paper bag tactics that the Chinese employ so successfully in DRC.

 

[Juba1845]

Disputes between shareholders of a JV as a reason for cancellation of a PE is unknown to the DRC mining code. Will look like an awfully silly excuse at the ICSID if AVZ wins the cases at the ICC especially since it was done after the IGF report. But you already know that. Damages of 10b USD and no access to world bank funds should make the MoM follow her own mining code imo

No one will pay anything .World bank will not cut funding for DRC because AVZ. Takes many years to go before legal is finished. AVZ cannot wait that long . Shareholder can't wait that long .

 

[Carlos Danger]

No one will pay anything .World bank will not cut funding for DRC because AVZ. Takes many years to go before legal is finished. AVZ cannot wait that long . Shareholder can't wait that long .

You underestimate the pettiness of the gringos

 

[cruiser51]

Legal action is nothing . Mining minister already cancel everything. Cominiere same . What legal action can do? Another company will come and have it . Different name only but same.

Please go back to school and learn English.

The only good part about your pidgin English is that it has gin in it, the rest just sucks and gives me a headache.

 

[oxxa23]

Legal action is nothing . Mining minister already cancel everything. Cominiere same . What legal action can do? Another company will come and have it . Different name only but same.

i'm not sure i speak on behalf of all shareholders, but, 99.93% of them would be saying "fuck off Juba"

 

[cruiser51]

i'm not sure i speak on behalf of all shareholders, but, 99.93% of them would be saying "fuck off Juba"

I'm still trying to decipher his posts.
I hope Juba doesn't defend Jen Chin for court, it would take fukkin ages.

 

[Remark]

Please go back to school and learn English.

The only good part about your pidgin English is that it has gin in it, the rest just sucks and gives me a headache.

Back to clown school?

Positions are now available.

Circus School | ITVS

Take a rare look into one of China's most treasured commodities — acrobats. Circus School reveals the rigorous physical training students must endure as they prepare for a national competition. | ITVS

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[cruiser51]

Back to clown school?

Positions are now available.

Circus School | ITVS

Take a rare look into one of China's most treasured commodities — acrobats. Circus School reveals the rigorous physical training students must endure as they prepare for a national competition. | ITVS

itvs.org

SERIES Global Voices
PREMIERE DATE March 18, 2008
LENGTH 60 minutes
FUNDING INITIATIVE International

That makes sense!

 

[Hodlandwin69]

Although juba is a cunt, I'm pretty sure world bank won't cut funding. I feel someone just applied that to this case if they are in breach of iscid, but it's a bit far fetched.
Please correct me as I'm more than happy to be wrong but please provide evidence rather than just shilling copium

 

[Azzler]

Legal action is nothing . Mining minister already cancel everything. Cominiere same . What legal action can do? Another company will come and have it . Different name only but same.

What a moron.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Although juba is a cunt, I'm pretty sure world bank won't cut funding. I feel someone just applied that to this case if they are in breach of iscid, but it's a bit far fetched.
Please correct me as I'm more than happy to be wrong but please provide evidence rather than just shilling copium

It wouldn't be the first time the world bank has cut funding to the DRC. It already happened this year. And if you read what I wrote carefully you would realise I never said they would definetely do it. I implied that the threat of cuts and damages should (key word) be enough leverage to make the MoM see the light.

And I provide way too many source documents for the claims I actually make to ever be accused of shilling copium

 

[wombat74]

It wouldn't be the first time the world bank has cut funding to the DRC. It already happened this year. And if you read what I wrote carefully you would realise I never said they would definetely do it. I implied that the threat of cuts and damages should (key word) be enough leverage to make the MoM see the light.

And I provide way too many source documents for the claims I actually make to ever be accused of shilling copium

Lets just hope to f--king Chr1st this does not get as far as ICSID . That will mean we are in suspension until 2025 / 2026 minimum . And what it also means is the DRC gov don't give a rats arse .

 

[Carlos Danger]

Lets just hope to f--king Chr1st this does not get as far as ICSID . That will mean we are in suspension until 2025 / 2026 minimum . And what it also means if the DRC gov don't give a rats arse .

The key case in all this except for the Dathomir 15% is the jurisdictional challenge starting tomorrow. If it is established that Jin Cheng have never been a party of Dathcom then the rest should be a formality for that 15% imo.

But then it would be over to the DRC gov to do the right thing or face the ICSID as the MoM's reasoning for cancelling the PE would not only be unknown to the DRC mining code but also based on claims by a party of Dathcom that participated in corruption.

AVZ have followed the mining code. If the DRC don't like it they should have written the code differently. This shit is more insane than Lord's members whingeing about the rules of cricket.

 

[Samus]

Legal action is nothing . Mining minister already cancel everything. Cominiere same . What legal action can do? Another company will come and have it . Different name only but same.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Can you please show where I can find the information about the cut of fundings?

Only thing I find in relation:

„At least there is theoretically the possibility for the World Bank to refuse new loans to a state. As far as can be seen, the World Bank has never made use of this theoretical possibility in connection with the ICSID.“

And when I look at mexico….feels like 30+ open cases but still getting money.

Because would be the perfect pressure method if they would really loose fundings because of the case. If the drc loose I doubt they will pay billions back, but if they would it would take many many decades

The cut of fundings this year was in relation to social programs and was caused by concerns about governance in the DRC after Felix terminated the programs the funds were intended for by presidential order. It wasn't to do with the ICSID. But that doesn't mean it can't happen like you say and the threat of that and other projects like the Lobito corridor not being funded should persuade the DRC to do the right thing imo

Or maybe the gringos are planning on getting more bang for their buck so to speak by turning a blind eye to hastily organised elections, however contentious, like the Washington insiders were saying in that article you shared on the weekend

Or maybe not. And we will have to spend years trying to reclaim any damages we are awarded. If the DRC government doesn't want to do the right thing and we only have a low ball Zijin offer currently on the table then we have no other choice. Like I said I expect Zijin to bring out the cheque book and make a better offer if they lose the jurisdictional challenge.

 

[Hodlandwin69]

The cut of fundings this year was in relation to social programs and was caused by concerns about governance in the DRC after Felix terminated the programs the funds were intended for by presidential order. It wasn't to do with the ICSID. But that doesn't mean it can't happen like you say and the threat of that and other projects like the Lobito corridor not being funded should persuade the DRC to do the right thing imo

Or maybe the gringos are planning on getting more bang for their buck so to speak by turning a blind eye to hastily organised elections, however contentious, like the Washington insiders were saying in that article you shared on the weekend

Or maybe not. And we will have to spend years trying to reclaim any damages we are awarded. If the DRC government doesn't want to do the right thing and we only have a low ball Zijin offer currently on the table then we have no other choice. Like I said I expect Zijin to bring out the cheque book and make a better offer if they lose the jurisdictional challenge.

Anyway, I wonder if Nige will make the trip from DRC to Paris, or if he'll just stay in DRC...

 

[Carlos Danger]

Anyway, I wonder if Nige will make the trip from DRC to Paris, or if he'll just stay in DRC...

Wouldn't he need to go to the DRC first?