The Fox
Regular
Definitely want CGT discount in any scenario going forward
Should an alternative prevail and we are afforded no CGT relief you may as well be sucking the taxman's dick...
Definitely want CGT discount in any scenario going forward
Should an alternative prevail and we are afforded no CGT relief you may as well be sucking the taxman's dick...
If the asset is gone can we expect our Chinese SH to off load if trading resumes ? Could get very messy . Would be much better if AVZ can retain a stake in the project . If AVZ has a future then obviously all the money wont be dished out to SH . IMOI'm speculating here.
Hypothetically AVZ sell the rights to tenement/assets to A and B for $C amount.
Current holders would get a special dividend payment.
AVZ will have $C in funds but pretty much no physical assets of value. Just cash.
AVZ will exit TH (Question: before or after special dividend payment?).
What that does to SP? No idea, I have not seen something like this before. Usually market cap will reflect current assets... but unsure in this hypothetical case given the issues facing this company.
Yes definitely can keep the money and buy another asset.That makes sense, but what compels management to do a special dividend? If Nigel wants to continue his ambitions as a mining magnate, can he just keep the funding and buy into another asset with approval of the BOD? We are shareholders in AVZ, not the deposit itself. Just thinking out loud here. Wondering who if anyone has some insight?
I'm no tax professional, I think plenty on here that could give better guidance when the time is right, just sharing what I found out with psc.I was under the impression that a payout (hopefully some kind of tax favorable method) would happen per share after a settlement date occurs.
This enables the shares to trade again and maintain their price regardless of who sells.
If they state all shares will be payed out at $2 per share for example, the SP will maintain at around $1.99, because knowing a $2 payout is comming will attract endless buyers if people sell at $1.99 or a bit lower.
So you can get out right away at a fraction less, or wait until settlement.
Unless there's special tax considerations and a return to trade is not appropriate.
If an asset sale is the way it happens, Best outcome for shareholders would be AVZ retains all the proceeds for a year and gives time for shares to be sold on market as all are eligible for CGT discount…..so max tax payable would be 22.5% on the capital gain.I'm no tax professional, I think plenty on here that could give better guidance when the time is right, just sharing what I found out with psc.
I was also a holder of PSC. From the asset sale, they returned funds and they retained some funds for further operation, cant remember exactly but something like $460m to shareholders and $40m retained. as stated above, they had to seek ato clarification on how the $460m funds could be returned to shareholders, in the end funds returned as part dividend and part capital. I think largely for local investors the dividend return was not welcomed as it resulted in higher tax being paid but I understand there was some offshore buying as those entities were not bound to pay tax locally. throughout this time, the shares traded below the value of cash backing presumably as many would have been happy selling out to secure a cgt discount than wait for the dividend but the price closed the gap towards settlement.
so in your example, if price is $2/sh, then if in the highest tax bracket, a dividend payout would result in 45% being paid in tax, so a gain of $1.10/sh vs a cgt payable at 25%, so a gain of $1.50 to the individual. so based on this you could see a situation where many holders would be happy to sell out at say $1.80 as the tax outcome would be better. as stated previously though, off shore entities that dont pay tax on the dividend would buy up the shares on offer at $1.80. the further out from settlement, the bigger the time factor of money and so the steeper the discount to the cash backing. I would also say there would be a rush of people wanting to get out of avz and this would also add to the discount on open.
needless to say everyones tax position is different so there are multiple scenarios/outcomes based on your tax position.
I'm not going to look into this further until we hear something of substance in an announcement, who know what the fuck is going to happen.
I would much prefer a TO rather than an asset sale as it is much cleaner, we get all our money returned and get to take advantage of the cgt discount so tax position is better for most holders remembering that everyone local would qualify for the cgt discount as holders for longer than 12 months.
last week of July, sure hope we get an announcement this week.
If an asset sale is the way it happens, Best outcome for shareholders would be AVZ retains all the proceeds for a year and gives time for shares to be sold on market as all are eligible for CGT discount…..so max tax payable would be 22.5% on the capital gain.
If it’s a new JV structure then ML is issued and we return to trading and life resumes and you hold or sell……and again everyone is entitled to CGT discount.
All imo.
VW CEO Matthias Müller made it clear to the Handelsblatt that Volkswagen is not planning to build a battery factory.![]()
Labor’s battery dream to cost taxpayers more than it earns
The Productivity Commission has warned the Albanese government against pouring billions of dollars into picking winners, including local battery manufacturing.www.afr.com
Maybe something the DRC government should read
Great post, I was a PSC holder too and sold my shares a few days after the announcement that there would be a sale of the Arcadia project.I'm no tax professional, I think plenty on here that could give better guidance when the time is right, just sharing what I found out with psc.
I was also a holder of PSC. From the asset sale, they returned funds and they retained some funds for further operation, cant remember exactly but something like $460m to shareholders and $40m retained. as stated above, they had to seek ato clarification on how the $460m funds could be returned to shareholders, in the end funds returned as part dividend and part capital. I think largely for local investors the dividend return was not welcomed as it resulted in higher tax being paid but I understand there was some offshore buying as those entities were not bound to pay tax locally. throughout this time, the shares traded below the value of cash backing presumably as many would have been happy selling out to secure a cgt discount than wait for the dividend but the price closed the gap towards settlement.
so in your example, if price is $2/sh, then if in the highest tax bracket, a dividend payout would result in 45% being paid in tax, so a gain of $1.10/sh vs a cgt payable at 25%, so a gain of $1.50 to the individual. so based on this you could see a situation where many holders would be happy to sell out at say $1.80 as the tax outcome would be better. as stated previously though, off shore entities that dont pay tax on the dividend would buy up the shares on offer at $1.80. the further out from settlement, the bigger the time factor of money and so the steeper the discount to the cash backing. I would also say there would be a rush of people wanting to get out of avz and this would also add to the discount on open.
needless to say everyones tax position is different so there are multiple scenarios/outcomes based on your tax position.
I'm not going to look into this further until we hear something of substance in an announcement, who know what the fuck is going to happen.
I would much prefer a TO rather than an asset sale as it is much cleaner, we get all our money returned and get to take advantage of the cgt discount so tax position is better for most holders remembering that everyone local would qualify for the cgt discount as holders for longer than 12 months.
last week of July, sure hope we get an announcement this week.
Very interesting, Austroid Australia, local subsidiary of US BASED Austroid, but has a chinese director was rejected by the FIRB to take over Alita.![]()
Australia blocks acquisition of lithium mine by China-linked firm
SYDNEY :Australia has barred the takeover of financially stricken lithium miner Alita Resources Ltd by a China-linked company after advice from its Foreign Investment Review Board (FIRB), a spokesperson for Treasurer Jim Chalmers said on Friday.Australia supplies around half of the world's...www.channelnewsasia.com
I hope option B isn't a large amount of pineapples BeishVery interesting, Austroid Australia, local subsidiary of US BASED Austroid, but has a chinese director was rejected by the FIRB to take over Alita.
Hmmm, looks like any coy with China links, is a red flag for the FIRB.....regardless whether it has a base in the US or not
I applaud the decision, Austroid Australia should also be stripped of the Bald hill lithium / tantalum mine too !!
So what implications does this mean for a potential TO of AVZ ?
I mean, Alita has only a pissant 26m / tonne at a lowly grade of 1%, AVZ has potentially 1.5b tonne++ tonnes @ 1.6% ( RD & CDL )
Hmmm, lots of folk talking about TO on this forum, with crazy prices quoted, just think everyone needs to brace themselves for what reality could really look like.....
Cant imagine Australian govt / FIRB is going to allow Manono to fall into Chinas hand in any capacity and they will have the US looking over their shoulder in any event....
If any smart cookie can provide links as to how a TO by the chinese can happen via loop holes such as control of Dathcom or sale of asset then i am all ears, cause i have tried searching and have come up with ......
View attachment 40560
The only avenue that I see a TO of AVZ / DATHCOM is via US / Europe, but is that really realistic given the strategic nature of the DRC relationship with China ?
With that in mind, i only see OPTION B as the likely occurance with the chinese whispers that are spreading around....
View attachment 40561
Steady on, you're giving me WFE flashbacksIf it's an asset sale of RD and CDL that brings a truckload of cash into the coffers, having gazillions in the bank won't help us resume trading, since not having an asset means we'd need to find another reason for being in operation, and would need to go through that process with the ASX, including potentially a prospectus, once we find something to spend all that money on - unless there's another lithium exploration project we can buy into quickly.
Yes you'll get the discount mate. Measured 12 months from date of purchase (if options, from date of conversion), regardless of whatever was going on with it.Hi TSE Brains Trust, Please help / advise.
I'm old but a newbie when it comes to Shares. 1st bought AVZ in Dec-2020 & bought last parcel in ~Aug-2021, approx 9 months before the TH.
Assuming the "Big +ve Ann" includes a CGT component (return of capital, or ML + Trade or ...???) , will I still get the 50% CGT discount on the last parcel of AVZ I bought? Or, is the 14+ months in TH not included in the "12 months owning the asset" to get the CGT discount?
Thanks in advance. GLTAH. Br Sparrowhawk12
Hey Beish,Very interesting, Austroid Australia, local subsidiary of US BASED Austroid, but has a chinese director was rejected by the FIRB to take over Alita.
Hmmm, looks like any coy with China links, is a red flag for the FIRB.....regardless whether it has a base in the US or not
I applaud the decision, Austroid Australia should also be stripped of the Bald hill lithium / tantalum mine too !!
So what implications does this mean for a potential TO of AVZ ?
I mean, Alita has only a pissant 26m / tonne at a lowly grade of 1%, AVZ has potentially 1.5b tonne++ tonnes @ 1.6% ( RD & CDL )
Hmmm, lots of folk talking about TO on this forum, with crazy prices quoted, just think everyone needs to brace themselves for what reality could really look like.....
Cant imagine Australian govt / FIRB is going to allow Manono to fall into Chinas hand in any capacity and they will have the US looking over their shoulder in any event....
If any smart cookie can provide links as to how a TO by the chinese can happen via loop holes such as control of Dathcom or sale of asset then i am all ears, cause i have tried searching and have come up with ......
View attachment 40560
The only avenue that I see a TO of AVZ / DATHCOM is via US / Europe, but is that really realistic given the strategic nature of the DRC relationship with China ?
With that in mind, i only see OPTION B as the likely occurance with the chinese whispers that are spreading around....
View attachment 40561
I kept hearing conflicting outcomes over the last few weeks too.Hey Beish,
Haven't really been keeping abreast of all things over the weekend, as I've been moving house. Catching up a bit more this afternoon and late last night, all of a sudden I'm reading that we are selling our assets and everyone is concerned with what taxes they might to pay!
Firstly imo, if this rumour started with the tweet from CKK (Cominiere) about us selling our tenements, I personally wouldn't take it's worth for a grain of salt! The guy is a total nut job and he knows he's fucked!
In my opinion, and I'm hoping, Cominere probably won't even be in existence in the very near future!
Really not sure whether Azzlers info is correct or not, as apparently over the last six weeks, things (outcomes) have changed numerous times, so who knows we're are currently at.
All should be revealed soon, but imo, we will be going mining!
Have a great week everyone,
Cheers,
Nells
Hi Azzler,I kept hearing conflicting outcomes over the last few weeks too.
Indeed Comminiere's comments on Twitter (I think it's that Mice guy, not CKK directly), are to be taken with much contempt, they're liers and thieves after all.
But from what I had heard (deal is done) along with other very recent revalations (Zijin, split and certain people in country) followed by Com stating AVZ sold 3 tenaments, along with other murmers... well fuck it, it looks like it actually happened.
I'm hoping we see an announcement soon in regards to this.
It's all from whispers, if it wasn't, it would be announced.
P.S. "Deal Done" did not stipulate any details (sold or mining), the "all sold" is from deductions.