I imagine Zijin has given them some kind of reassurance. With their lawyers probably saying don't worry, this is all unenforceable, and if anything happens financially we'll sort you out. I cant see how they could be so blase otherwise
AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
- Start date
Mute22
Regular
Part of it would be optics, not everybody especially in the Congo is going to be reading ICSID transcripts.
If they comply in anyway they are admitting a) that they have have given up the operation and b) they respect and will follow ICSID rulings.
Indeed - I should have put more thought into that post!
Agree . Cominere is a bit player taking instructions from Zijin and is completely immune .The ICC is a toothless tiger . China will pay no attention to it's findings and carry on business as usual . Fines and penalties are just numbers that will never see the light of day . AVZ last and only chance rests with the United States for the southern region . It's 50/50 at best and that's being generous . The current hype in the media could be seen as misleading .
is that you Shane ?
Winenut
Go AVZ!
BRICK
Top 20
Another one
colitco.com
US Backs AVZ in Congo Lithium Dispute Against China
AVZ wins a legal battle over Congo’s Manono lithium mine as the US moves to counter China’s influence in critical minerals.
Shame Shane
TheCount
Regular
Don't forget about how the media is manipulated from all angles:-Another one
US Backs AVZ in Congo Lithium Dispute Against China
AVZ wins a legal battle over Congo’s Manono lithium mine as the US moves to counter China’s influence in critical minerals.
Not complaining, just reality.
TC.
BRICK
Top 20
Hahah "this is extremely to our democracy"
We have been fucked all sides from last Tuesday over the last few years. The ultimate gas lighting.
Its gonna be hard if we have to get back into bed with actors who have totally and blatently fucked us.
Ill be interested to see how this ends up and who will be painted as the heroes and who will make a deal.
Including the ones here on Oz soil.
Oh and Tommy you tit, im looking forward to what you will have to say once we come out of this.
I would love to know The Australian’s source for their story. Is there any obligation for them to disclose if asked?
Speaking of information, I’d like to reach out to Amovotio directly but Hotcrapper doesn’t support this. I’m interested in knowing his or her updated view given AVZ‘s last statement that no written deal had been received came after their ‘deal is done’ post.
Speaking of information, I’d like to reach out to Amovotio directly but Hotcrapper doesn’t support this. I’m interested in knowing his or her updated view given AVZ‘s last statement that no written deal had been received came after their ‘deal is done’ post.
Devils advocate but they were pretty specific in saying no WRITTEN offer has been received - but amovotio could still be correct in a handshake or verbal negotiation could be underway/done.
Of course I wouldn’t just take a post on a forum as fact until AVZ comes out with a proper announcement
China will pay no attention to it's findings and carry on business as usual ?
Say that when USA gains control of the critical minerals and transport.
DRC on its knees and needs USA intervention .
Xerof
Have a Cigar 1975
Couple of matters:
If anyone has a copy of the Dathomir rejoinder Partial Award, could they either post it publicly, or DM me a copy please. I don't know why Management haven't posted it on the website (I know they lost their challenge but......we aren't afraid to be told about minor negative outcomes, in the interests of full disclosure)
Interesting wording used regarding their USA visit "a view to raising funds to support its endeavours to secure and develop the Manono Lithium Project including via a long term commitment in respect to its share of the mineral off take", followed by the wider statement regarding various parties expressing interest in the Project
So, was the first objective to find a CATH replacement?
I read this to suggest that AVZ was looking to gain a long-term deal regarding our share of the remaining offtake (based on the non-CATH ownership percentage remaining), likely with a desired significant upfront lump sum that (in addition with the money from the CATH sale) would be used to fund our share of the Project infrastructure development costs.
Maybe talks were initially intended in this direction though got overtaken by the parallel possibility to sell the Project out in full to US interests, given their goal to secure a critical mineral channels not controlled by China
Dave Evans
Regular
There’s lots of information on Dathomir X. @Carlos Danger is probably the most knowledgeable but like me he could be having a break from posting and letting Nigel and DLA Piper get on with whatever needs to be done now we have the funds to keep fighting
This is from a piece I saved back in October 2022
Dathomir denied having sold its shares, stating in court documents that, although it initially agreed to sell a 5% stake, then another 10%, AVZ did not pay the agreed amounts on time.
Dathomir filed a lawsuit in the Congolese courts to cancel the transactions and won. In September, the Lubumbashi Commercial Court suspended the transaction, preventing AVZ from buying the shares.
"The transfer of the shares, object of the sale, to the benefit of the acquirer AVZ International Ltd could only take place after full payment of the agreed sums; which was not the case for the applicant," Dathomir argued before the court.
The Lubumbashi Commercial Court "shall order the suspension of the payment of the balances of the prices of US$15,000,000 and $5,000,000 mentioned in the two contracts for the sale of shares of 5% and 10% share between the plaintiff and the first defendant, the Company AVZ INTERNATIONAL PTY LTP, pending that the Arbitral Tribunal chosen by the parties in the said contracts decides on the merits of the case".
However, AVZ insists that it owns 75% of Dathcom shares after acquiring the 15% of Dathomir.
"AVZI duly concluded each of Dathomir's sales agreements in August 2021, including payment within the required time, and thus legally acquired an additional 15% stake in Dathcom," AVZ said in response to the court's decision.
AVZ confirms that it retains the legal title of a 75% stake in the Manono project and its pre-emption rights on the balance of the project.
And giving full credit where credit is due, I save all @Carlos Danger information because he is the most well researched shareholder I know and the following is all information he has posted
Dathomir have lost every question before the ICC so far. And will continue to lose
The tell, apart from all of the facts, is in which party wanted the proceedings made public, that the court agreed with, and which party didn't imo
https://thestockexchange.com.au/attachments/20240212_104952-jpg.56591/
https://thestockexchange.com.au/attachments/20240212_105020-jpg.56592/
https://thestockexchange.com.au/attachments/20240212_105042-jpg.56593/
https://thestockexchange.com.au/attachments/20240212_105104-jpg.56594/
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Dave Evans
Regular
@Xerof here’s more from @Carlos Danger it should provide you with enough reading for your flight to Dubai
No one outside of the parties involved has seen the SPA's. The only clues we have are from this court record and AVZ's official announcements. Both of those sources agree that completion of the transactions occurs when payment hits da bank. Cong cites Article 2.1 of the SPA's for this fact. This event occurred on or about 13/8/21 according to AVZ and on 16/8/21 according to Dathomir which is backed up by the bank statement.
The only thing that could have stopped it was a domestic stay of payment but the writ for that was served to AVZ on 28/8/21 which is after completion occurred according to Cong's timeline of events
As for the need for a Dathcom EGM this was not a condition precedent of the SPA's according to AVZ. Cong says it 'should' have happened because it occurred in previous transfers but he doesn't cite anything from the agreements when claiming this.
Without going into the long boring details of OHADA the article that Cong cites about waiving the sale is about negotiations using an expert to value the shares in an absence of agreements. The judge was never asked to rule on the merits of his arguments about termination and repeatedly recognises the need for this matter to be heard by an arbitral judge. The ICC taking on these cases indicates to me that they are the ones named in the SPA's for dispute resolution just like in the Dathcom JVA and they have agreed with AVZ on everything so far.
Obviously I would need to read the SPA's to know for sure if Cong has grounds for termination or renegotiation but the fact that both parties have acknowledged that completion occurs on payment, Cong couldn't back up his EGM claim from the agreements themselves and the ICC are hearing the cases and resticting Dathomir's actions within the DRC is enough for me. And DLA Piper too obvs
Cong never directly claims the lack of a Dathcom EGM is the reason he considers the agreements as not complete (Dathomir EGM for 2020 agreement occurred 22/9/20 according to copy I have). AVZ responded to the ASX when addressing that issue. Cong cites the payment clause and lack of Dathcom EGM as grounds for his purported right to seek renegotiation and subsequent termination of the agreements.
From then on both parties are operating under two different assumptions. AVZ continue as if the agreements are still valid and Cong doesn't. AVZ say Cong has no right to variation of the price and that he didn't give any arguable, let alone determative, basis for termination of the SPA's.
AVZ also say that Dathomir's criminal complaints in this matter are not only about money but also serve to 'discredit AVZ's standing with the DRC government and assist Cominiere and Zijin (with each of whom it is acting in concert) in misappropriating the Manono Project'
Like I said yesterday Cong clearly had other motives for his actions than just lining his own pockets. If he was only interested in money he would have kept his 240 million free AVZ shares (worth $330m AUD at ATH) and used the valuation in the DFS for negotiations of the 2020 agreement. Cong's primary intention was to try and get rid of AVZ from the project by any means necessary imo
So the 20 million dollar question is did Cong correctly follow the SPA's and have a right to variation of price and termination or was he just trying to rat fuck us any way he could?
Clearly the criminal case brought by Cong against Graeme and Dathcom is causing problems with the DRC government. Although the MoM didn't cite it directly in her cancellation decree. The appeal judge for the criminal proceedings has suspended the sentence and reduced the fine pending AVZ / Dathcom's appeal to the Supreme Court and the outcome will depend on the result of arbitration.
AVZ say they are willing to do a deal with Cong if he withdraws the criminal complaint. But it's been months since they said that and nothing so far. That's because Cong doesn't actually give a fuck about more money and just wants to impede AVZ as much as possible for the benefit of his Chinese masters. The tomato on the crapper also hinted the criminal case will be dropped in exchange for the north indicating further collusion between our enemies.
Without a deal to remove the criminal complaint our only choice is to prove that Cong didn't follow the SPA's correctly in the appropriate forum of the ICC and then return to the highest court within the DRC and have the whole thing thrown out. But that won't happen until Q4 2024 at the earliest.
A sincere thank you for all the research and information you provide Carlos, and hope you’re enjoying a little bit of this
No one outside of the parties involved has seen the SPA's. The only clues we have are from this court record and AVZ's official announcements. Both of those sources agree that completion of the transactions occurs when payment hits da bank. Cong cites Article 2.1 of the SPA's for this fact. This event occurred on or about 13/8/21 according to AVZ and on 16/8/21 according to Dathomir which is backed up by the bank statement.
The only thing that could have stopped it was a domestic stay of payment but the writ for that was served to AVZ on 28/8/21 which is after completion occurred according to Cong's timeline of events
As for the need for a Dathcom EGM this was not a condition precedent of the SPA's according to AVZ. Cong says it 'should' have happened because it occurred in previous transfers but he doesn't cite anything from the agreements when claiming this.
Without going into the long boring details of OHADA the article that Cong cites about waiving the sale is about negotiations using an expert to value the shares in an absence of agreements. The judge was never asked to rule on the merits of his arguments about termination and repeatedly recognises the need for this matter to be heard by an arbitral judge. The ICC taking on these cases indicates to me that they are the ones named in the SPA's for dispute resolution just like in the Dathcom JVA and they have agreed with AVZ on everything so far.
Obviously I would need to read the SPA's to know for sure if Cong has grounds for termination or renegotiation but the fact that both parties have acknowledged that completion occurs on payment, Cong couldn't back up his EGM claim from the agreements themselves and the ICC are hearing the cases and resticting Dathomir's actions within the DRC is enough for me. And DLA Piper too obvs
Cong never directly claims the lack of a Dathcom EGM is the reason he considers the agreements as not complete (Dathomir EGM for 2020 agreement occurred 22/9/20 according to copy I have). AVZ responded to the ASX when addressing that issue. Cong cites the payment clause and lack of Dathcom EGM as grounds for his purported right to seek renegotiation and subsequent termination of the agreements.
From then on both parties are operating under two different assumptions. AVZ continue as if the agreements are still valid and Cong doesn't. AVZ say Cong has no right to variation of the price and that he didn't give any arguable, let alone determative, basis for termination of the SPA's.
AVZ also say that Dathomir's criminal complaints in this matter are not only about money but also serve to 'discredit AVZ's standing with the DRC government and assist Cominiere and Zijin (with each of whom it is acting in concert) in misappropriating the Manono Project'
Like I said yesterday Cong clearly had other motives for his actions than just lining his own pockets. If he was only interested in money he would have kept his 240 million free AVZ shares (worth $330m AUD at ATH) and used the valuation in the DFS for negotiations of the 2020 agreement. Cong's primary intention was to try and get rid of AVZ from the project by any means necessary imo
So the 20 million dollar question is did Cong correctly follow the SPA's and have a right to variation of price and termination or was he just trying to rat fuck us any way he could?
Clearly the criminal case brought by Cong against Graeme and Dathcom is causing problems with the DRC government. Although the MoM didn't cite it directly in her cancellation decree. The appeal judge for the criminal proceedings has suspended the sentence and reduced the fine pending AVZ / Dathcom's appeal to the Supreme Court and the outcome will depend on the result of arbitration.
AVZ say they are willing to do a deal with Cong if he withdraws the criminal complaint. But it's been months since they said that and nothing so far. That's because Cong doesn't actually give a fuck about more money and just wants to impede AVZ as much as possible for the benefit of his Chinese masters. The tomato on the crapper also hinted the criminal case will be dropped in exchange for the north indicating further collusion between our enemies.
Without a deal to remove the criminal complaint our only choice is to prove that Cong didn't follow the SPA's correctly in the appropriate forum of the ICC and then return to the highest court within the DRC and have the whole thing thrown out. But that won't happen until Q4 2024 at the earliest.
A sincere thank you for all the research and information you provide Carlos, and hope you’re enjoying a little bit of this
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