BRN Discussion Ongoing

[jtardif999]

Right, Valeo does a lot of work with neuromorphic technology and they don't make a secret out of it.
Valeo was a prominent part of the Tempo project (2018-January 2023). Base of the project was SynSense technology. Out of this project a consortium derived, where Valeo and Philips take the part of working on applications. In the meantime also GrAIMatterLabs joined the consortium. This all shows Brainchip isn't in any way an exclusive partner of Valeo, other activities seem to be much more prominent.

My conclusion is, maybe we will see neuromorphic technology in Scala 4, but there is no guarantee it will be Brainchip.
Don't get me wrong, I really hope any mass product with Akida IP will enter the market soon. but as this is my biggest investment, I need to take a full realistic view, dot joining and hope aren't the right instruments for myself.
In the meantime after a couple of complicated years with delays in the chip industry and general problems of industries I see a real market entrance of Brainchip in 2025/26.
I'm happy when I'm wrong but that's my view of today.


View attachment 49340

Partners - Andante AI

www.andante-ai.eu

Pardon me but you seem to be ignoring the following facts:
1) BrainChip signed a joint development agreement with Valeo in 2020.
2) Valeo are the world leader in LiDAR technology.
3) BrainChip have stated previously to shareholders that Akida is in a sweet spot for being utilised in LiDAR.
4) Since signing the JDV agreement BrainChip have never changed their stance on Valeo being a valued partner, always displaying Valeo’s logo on their partners page.
5) BrainChips SNN technology is world leading and has formidable patent protection.
6) As stated previously by @chapman89 a former Valeo LiDAR employee has admitted that SNNs are a big part of Scala3.

I’m a little bemused as to why you would think that BRN would not be involved here?
It’s a no brainer to me and I think news will become official in this regard next year. AIMO.

 

[Bravo]

Pardon me but you seem to be ignoring the following facts:
1) BrainChip signed a joint development agreement with Valeo in 2020.
2) Valeo are the world leader in LiDAR technology.
3) BrainChip have stated previously to shareholders that Akida is in a sweet spot for being utilised in LiDAR.
4) Since signing the JDV agreement BrainChip have never changed their stance on Valeo being a valued partner, always displaying Valeo’s logo on their partners page.
5) BrainChips SNN technology is world leading and has formidable patent protection.
6) As stated previously by @chapman89 a former Valeo LiDAR employee has admitted that SNNs are a big part of Scala3.

I’m a little bemused as to why you would think that BRN would not be involved here?
It’s a no brainer to me and I think news will become official in this regard next year. AIMO.

I don't like the odds of you receiving a response from Perhaps that addresses the very sensible points you have made @jtardif999 but that's OK because Perhaps said he's happy when he's wrong. I gather he is frequently wrong. Why else would one keep doing something that makes one unhappy, because that would be really weird and very bad for one's mental health!

 

[wilzy123]

Interesting.

1. Visit https://www.northropgrumman.com/
2. Type "akida" into the search bar up top right

3. Observe single result that relates to BrainChip

Article makes no mention of Akida or BrainChip.

Link to search result page: https://www.northropgrumman.com/Search/akida
Link to article: https://www.northropgrumman.com/wha...orphic-cameras-provide-a-vision-of-the-future


Relates to this find: https://thestockexchange.com.au/threads/northrop-grumman-neuromorphic.4479/

 

[TECH]

@TECH ...........Sorry if ive missed this, but, is Sean definately travelling to Seoul? Or was that tongue in cheek?
And if so when?
Cheers

Yes Sean is presenting the AKD 2 .0 platform. Nandan was going to represent the company at the TinyML forum but Sean our CEO suddenly got the gig..visiting Australia on the way was a smart move in my opinion..but we do have known links with South Korea so something or nothing may be cooking.

 

[Galaxycar]

Told you’s Sean was only here to hand out the fat Christmas bonus’s did’nt announce sweet F ALL. Had to come now before they all knock off for their well earned Christmas break,to only return next year and do the same again,rinse and repeat. KPI achieved
1: screw over shareholders of any personal savings they might have invested in brainchip until shareprice is that low they can achieve a reverse takeover by director, just in time to avoid the next AGM avoiding them loosing there jobs.
2. Paint a picture that the market is so grim out their that no one will sign an IP License , but just after reverse takeover release 15 IP agreements and release all companies behind the NDA’S to the market saying the shareprice will do what the shareprice will do!.
Sums up management fairly well me thinks

 

[Perhaps]

Pardon me but you seem to be ignoring the following facts:
1) BrainChip signed a joint development agreement with Valeo in 2020.
2) Valeo are the world leader in LiDAR technology.
3) BrainChip have stated previously to shareholders that Akida is in a sweet spot for being utilised in LiDAR.
4) Since signing the JDV agreement BrainChip have never changed their stance on Valeo being a valued partner, always displaying Valeo’s logo on their partners page.
5) BrainChips SNN technology is world leading and has formidable patent protection.
6) As stated previously by @chapman89 a former Valeo LiDAR employee has admitted that SNNs are a big part of Scala3.

I’m a little bemused as to why you would think that BRN would not be involved here?
It’s a no brainer to me and I think news will become official in this regard next year. AIMO.

So we have different views and different arguments. Shouldn't be a problem, that's what a forum is made for.
Time will tell who's on the right train.

 

[Frangipani]

While we may have every reason to believe that Akida is the superior technology, we should not resort to making factually incorrect statements about Brainchip’s competitors:

Exactly!
They’re starting now to “explore” which as we know from experience that automotive takes a long time, years!
So Synsense and BMW can “explore” the benefits whilst TATA Valeo and others drive and implement akida IP into products!

True, automotive takes a long time, but no, they are not starting to explore only now - they announced their partnership in mid-April 2022, so that was more than 1.5 years ago.

Also, the announcement about the SynSense-BMW partnership was primarily about smart cockpits and not about LiDAR only. That’s why I compared it to MB (‘Hey, Mercedes!’) and not to Valeo.

While the article I quoted (which I had picked as one of the most recent ones I could find about SynSense + BMW) does indeed literally say “to explore the integration of their brain-like chips into smart cockpits”, I have since double-checked the news around the original press release (which strangely I cannot find anywhere) that consistently quote the partnership announcement being about advancing the integration of neuromorphic chips into smart cockpits and exploring related fields with BMW. (See for example Sally Ward-Foxton referring to the partnership in her “Cars That Think Like You” EETimes article)

https://www.eetimes.com/cars-that-think-like-you/#:~:text=Car%20makers%20are%20checking%20out,attention%2C%20and%20passenger%20behavior%20monitoring.

That’s also the wording I recall. So it sounds as if they had in fact already collaborated quite a bit regarding smart cockpits before announcing their partnership, similar to Valeo and Brainchip having been involved months before announcing their partnership.

Brainchip has been involved with Valeo since late 2019 and also SynSense don’t do IP, whereas Brainchip does!
Brainchip and Valeo have also worked on proof of concepts with Valeo!

Also not true.
“SynSense focuses on the commercialization of neuromorphic intelligence, based on 20+ years of world-leading experience of University of Zürich and ETH Zürich. Centering on edge computing applications, SynSense provides ultra-low power consumption, ultra-low latency inference ASICs and IP blocks, as well as full-stack application development services, and is globally the only neuromorphic technology company that involves both sensing and computing.”

About Us | SynSense

SynSense focuses on neuromorphic intelligence and takes the lead in commercialization of neuromorphic chips; SynSense provides application solutions and services.

www.synsense.ai

AKIDA is much betterer.

View attachment 49358

Again, factually incorrect: You are comparing apples and oranges. Your juxtaposition probably refers to some other SynSense chip, but definitely not to the DYNAP-CNN (which is the one involved in the partnership with Prophesee), which according to their website has up to 1 million neurons. No mention of synapses, I am afraid. But up to 1000 x more neurons than you claimed!

DYNAP™-CNN: Neuromorphic Processor With 1M Spiking eurons

DYNAP™-CNN is world's first fully scalable, event-driven neuromorphic processor with 1M configurable spiking neurons and direct interface with external DVS.

www.synsense.ai

“DYNAP™-CNN, a fully scalable, event-driven neuromorphic processor, redefines sensory processing. With up to 1M configurable spiking neurons and a direct interface with external DVS, this technology is ideal for ultra-low power, ultra-low latency event-driven applications.”

It is not my intention to spruik a competitor’s product here, but when making statements about competitors or their products, we - me included, of course - should stick to the facts and possibly fact-check before posting.
And also accept the reality that Brainchip will never have 100 % of the market share.

On a more positive note: BMW having partnered with SynSense in 2022 does not automatically exclude BMW also exploring things with Brainchip, if you ask me. Right now (behind an NDA) or in the future.

 

[Bravo]

While we may have every reason to believe that Akida is the superior technology, we should not resort to making factually incorrect statements about Brainchip’s competitors:



True, automotive takes a long time, but no, they are not starting to explore only now - they announced their partnership in mid-April 2022, so that was more than 1.5 years ago.

Also, the announcement about the SynSense-BMW partnership was primarily about smart cockpits and not about LiDAR only. That’s why I compared it to MB (‘Hey, Mercedes!’) and not to Valeo.

While the article I quoted (which I had picked as one of the most recent ones I could find about SynSense + BMW) does indeed literally say “to explore the integration of their brain-like chips into smart cockpits”, I have since double-checked the news around the original press release (which strangely I cannot find anywhere) that consistently quote the partnership announcement being about advancing the integration of neuromorphic chips into smart cockpits and exploring related fields with BMW. (See for example Sally Ward-Foxton referring to the partnership in her “Cars That Think Like You” EETimes article)

https://www.eetimes.com/cars-that-think-like-you/#:~:text=Car%20makers%20are%20checking%20out,attention%2C%20and%20passenger%20behavior%20monitoring.

That’s also the wording I recall. So it sounds as if they had in fact already collaborated quite a bit regarding smart cockpits before announcing their partnership, similar to Valeo and Brainchip having been involved months before announcing their partnership.



Also not true.
“SynSense focuses on the commercialization of neuromorphic intelligence, based on 20+ years of world-leading experience of University of Zürich and ETH Zürich. Centering on edge computing applications, SynSense provides ultra-low power consumption, ultra-low latency inference ASICs and IP blocks, as well as full-stack application development services, and is globally the only neuromorphic technology company that involves both sensing and computing.”

About Us | SynSense

SynSense focuses on neuromorphic intelligence and takes the lead in commercialization of neuromorphic chips; SynSense provides application solutions and services.

www.synsense.ai

Again, factually incorrect: You are comparing apples and oranges. Your juxtaposition probably refers to some other SynSense chip, but definitely not to the DYNAP-CNN (which is the one involved in the partnership with Prophesee), which according to their website has up to 1 million neurons. No mention of synapses, I am afraid. But up to 1000 x more neurons than you claimed!

DYNAP™-CNN: Neuromorphic Processor With 1M Spiking eurons

DYNAP™-CNN is world's first fully scalable, event-driven neuromorphic processor with 1M configurable spiking neurons and direct interface with external DVS.

www.synsense.ai

“DYNAP™-CNN, a fully scalable, event-driven neuromorphic processor, redefines sensory processing. With up to 1M configurable spiking neurons and a direct interface with external DVS, this technology is ideal for ultra-low power, ultra-low latency event-driven applications.”

It is not my intention to spruik a competitor’s product here, but when making statements about competitors or their products, we - me included, of course - should stick to the facts and possibly fact-check before posting.
And also accept the reality that Brainchip will never have 100 % of the market share.

On a more positive note: BMW having partnered with SynSense in 2022 does not automatically exclude BMW also exploring things with Brainchip, if you ask me. Right now (behind an NDA) or in the future.

We do agree on one point and that is that there is nothing factually incorrect about your last sentence.

"BMW having partnered with SynSense in 2022 does not automatically exclude BMW also exploring things with Brainchip, if you ask me."

 

[DerAktienDude]

Why do we keep talking about this?
We know due to our financials that we're not involved in the >€1 billion orders for the Scala 3 that Valeo mentions on their website.
If they are talking about using a neural network, it's not us. At least we would have seen some preliminary payments.

Management saying that Lidar is a sweet spot for us sounds all good and well, but so do the explosion of sales, revenue outgrowing expenses in 2023 and so on and so forth. It's my biggest investment and I want it to succeed. But constantly ignoring reality and creating false expectations will lead to nothing but disappointment, which is clearly visible for a year or so already in every BRN forum.

 

[DerAktienDude]

This one is worth a look since the last energy-efficient solution used to consume much more power than the 2024 roadmap products from Samsung. Nevertheless, it's nothing else than speculation even if the article practically explains akida, its use cases and strengths.

Samsung Unveils 2024 Generative AI Roadmap for Home Appliances

Samsung Electronics is set to introduce its line of home appliances with the integration of generative artificial intelligence (AI) features

www.koreatechtoday.com

 

[Frangipani]

We do agree on one point and that is that there is nothing factually incorrect about your last sentence.

"BMW having partnered with SynSense in 2022 does not automatically exclude BMW also exploring things with Brainchip, if you ask me."

If this is really all you can agree on (oh, and splitting hairs, it was technically not my last, but my penultimate sentence ), I’d recommend you get yourself a new pair of reading glasses…

So you still insist your comparison was fair?

 

[cosors]

Frank Weber calls for a longer perspective for combustion engines​

The press is full of their moaning. No wonder with this offensive and flagship model how BMW wants to face the challenges at some point

You should take a look at how Blackberry is progressing with the assistance systems compared to its competitors.

BMW cooperates with Blackberry ​

In the future, the former mobile phone manufacturer Blackberry will help BMW to develop new driver assistance systems at Level 2 and Level 2+. The Canadian company and the automaker announced a multi-year partnership.
Wednesday, December 15, 2021

Ten years ago I would never have taken such a clear position in favour of MB over BMW. I find it all rather sad. If you want to follow how the last drivers in the field master the challenges of the race, this is the place to be. IMHOHO

 

[Perhaps]

While we may have every reason to believe that Akida is the superior technology, we should not resort to making factually incorrect statements about Brainchip’s competitors:



True, automotive takes a long time, but no, they are not starting to explore only now - they announced their partnership in mid-April 2022, so that was more than 1.5 years ago.

Also, the announcement about the SynSense-BMW partnership was primarily about smart cockpits and not about LiDAR only. That’s why I compared it to MB (‘Hey, Mercedes!’) and not to Valeo.

While the article I quoted (which I had picked as one of the most recent ones I could find about SynSense + BMW) does indeed literally say “to explore the integration of their brain-like chips into smart cockpits”, I have since double-checked the news around the original press release (which strangely I cannot find anywhere) that consistently quote the partnership announcement being about advancing the integration of neuromorphic chips into smart cockpits and exploring related fields with BMW. (See for example Sally Ward-Foxton referring to the partnership in her “Cars That Think Like You” EETimes article)

https://www.eetimes.com/cars-that-think-like-you/#:~:text=Car%20makers%20are%20checking%20out,attention%2C%20and%20passenger%20behavior%20monitoring.

That’s also the wording I recall. So it sounds as if they had in fact already collaborated quite a bit regarding smart cockpits before announcing their partnership, similar to Valeo and Brainchip having been involved months before announcing their partnership.



Also not true.
“SynSense focuses on the commercialization of neuromorphic intelligence, based on 20+ years of world-leading experience of University of Zürich and ETH Zürich. Centering on edge computing applications, SynSense provides ultra-low power consumption, ultra-low latency inference ASICs and IP blocks, as well as full-stack application development services, and is globally the only neuromorphic technology company that involves both sensing and computing.”

About Us | SynSense

SynSense focuses on neuromorphic intelligence and takes the lead in commercialization of neuromorphic chips; SynSense provides application solutions and services.

www.synsense.ai

Again, factually incorrect: You are comparing apples and oranges. Your juxtaposition probably refers to some other SynSense chip, but definitely not to the DYNAP-CNN (which is the one involved in the partnership with Prophesee), which according to their website has up to 1 million neurons. No mention of synapses, I am afraid. But up to 1000 x more neurons than you claimed!

DYNAP™-CNN: Neuromorphic Processor With 1M Spiking eurons

DYNAP™-CNN is world's first fully scalable, event-driven neuromorphic processor with 1M configurable spiking neurons and direct interface with external DVS.

www.synsense.ai

“DYNAP™-CNN, a fully scalable, event-driven neuromorphic processor, redefines sensory processing. With up to 1M configurable spiking neurons and a direct interface with external DVS, this technology is ideal for ultra-low power, ultra-low latency event-driven applications.”

It is not my intention to spruik a competitor’s product here, but when making statements about competitors or their products, we - me included, of course - should stick to the facts and possibly fact-check before posting.
And also accept the reality that Brainchip will never have 100 % of the market share.

On a more positive note: BMW having partnered with SynSense in 2022 does not automatically exclude BMW also exploring things with Brainchip, if you ask me. Right now (behind an NDA) or in the future.

An addition:
It's a very simplified olympic idea to think the more neurons the better. Depending on the application there's always an right amount of neurons, overpowering leads to overly complex training algorithms needed and can have a negative effect on accuracy and latency.
So a scalable amount of neurons might be the way to go:

How many neurons for a neural network? | Your Data Teacher

Neural networks are a fascinating field of machine learning. Let's see how to find the best number of neurons of a neural network for our dataset.

www.yourdatateacher.com

IEEE Xplore Full-Text PDF:

ieeexplore.ieee.org

https://hal.science/hal-01633418/document

 

[Sam]

Yes Sean is presenting the AKD 2 .0 platform. Nandan was going to represent the company at the TinyML forum but Sean our CEO suddenly got the gig..visiting Australia on the way was a smart move in my opinion..but we do have known links with South Korea so something or nothing may be cooking.

SAMSUNG!!!!

 

[RobjHunt]

Thanks cosors,

Akida uses stock-standard CMOS manufacturing so there's no real issues with the hardware side.

Also, Akida 1 does not use any processor based software while performing classification/inference, so again, no issue with ISO certification on this point.

One area which would need to be examined for ISO certification is the accuracy of the results of the hardware working with the image model, and related to this is the use of a processor to load the model and weights and configure the NN layers.

Akida 2 does make some use of the processor for its more advanced functionality, so again some additional scrutiny would be required for ISO.

Doigeeknees Sitter I for one appreciate your, at times, layman posts.

 

[cosors]

BMW cooperates with Blackberry​

In the future, the former mobile phone manufacturer Blackberry will help BMW to develop new driver assistance systems at Level 2 and Level 2+. The Canadian company and the automaker announced a multi-year partnership.
Wednesday, December 15, 2021

Ten years ago I would never have taken such a clear position in favour of MB over BMW. I find it all rather sad. If you want to follow how the last drivers in the field master the challenges of the race, this is the place to be. IMHOHO

The manager of an investment company hits the nail on the head with his pun.

BMW Annual General Meeting: Don't become the "Blackberry" of the automotive industry
...
"BMW must now set the course for the future to avoid becoming the Blackberry of the automotive industry," the manager warned, according to Süddeutsche Zeitung.
..."
link

 

[Frangipani]

​

hits the nail on the head with his pun.

BMW Annual General Meeting: Don't become the "Blackberry" of the automotive industry
...
"BMW must now set the course for the future to avoid becoming the Blackberry of the automotive industry," the manager warned, according to Süddeutsche Zeitung.
..."

Did the SZ journalist by any chance also make a pun on the new BMW model being “die nicht so klasse Neue Klasse”?

 

[cosors]

​

Did the SZ journalist by any chance also make a pun on the new BMW model being “die nicht so klasse Neue Klasse”?

When I first saw this flagship model I couldn't believe that they were serious. I can still remember the picture they put together. I would be interested to know whether this world class model can drive at all or is just a dummy.
I emphasise once again. This is gallows humour. I always loved this brand. I know how well they are constructed in some cases.
But unfortunately they prefer to look the other way and mourn the good old days.
That's why I don't care what they are currently developing with whom, as I fear that the race for something of their own is already over. Sad, very sad.
My criticism also relates to other things. I don't see anything that points to the future at the moment just a clinging to the old.
Apart from that colourful papier-mâché* (paper mâché) model up there.

_____
*I didn't realise it was translated correctly in this way, but I checked it three times.

 

[Perhaps]

​

Did the SZ journalist by any chance also make a pun on the new BMW model being “die nicht so klasse Neue Klasse”?

The German car industry in general is years behind China when it comes to EVs. Mercedes has the strategy to cancel entry level models and go premium only, BMW has no plans at all.
A look at the models for the volume market leads to one question, who in the world will pay such completely crazy prices for design accidents?
Chinese car industry enters massively the European market, right now it looks like a change in technological leadership occurs.

 

[cosors]

When I first saw this flagship model I couldn't believe that they were serious. I can still remember the picture they put together. I would be interested to know whether this world class model can drive at all or is just a dummy.
I emphasise once again. This is gallows humour. I always loved this brand. I know how well they are constructed in some cases.
But unfortunately they prefer to look the other way and mourn the good old days.
That's why I don't care what they are currently developing with whom, as I fear that the race for something of their own is already over. Sad, very sad.
My criticism also relates to other things. I don't see anything that points to the future at the moment just a clinging to the old.
Apart from that colourful papier-mâché* (paper mâché) model up there.

_____
*I didn't realise it was translated so correctly. I checked three tools.

TSE is a reliable archive.

Jan 5, 2023,
Now, at CES 2023 for those who don't want to believe it like I did back then.

___________
I think the design geniuses from the ivory tower had the legendary BMW 3.0 CSL in mind when they created this.