AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
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cruiser51
Top 20
have a whine
Mr Inappropriate
Regular
One question:
Is anyone aware of the factual reason(s) provided by the government to Dathcom as to why the ML has not been issued?
One observation;
The ICC route will take forever. Only the president’s intervention will change our trajectory.
Is anyone aware of the factual reason(s) provided by the government to Dathcom as to why the ML has not been issued?
One observation;
The ICC route will take forever. Only the president’s intervention will change our trajectory.
MoneyBags1348
Top 20
Possibly Tshisekedi told Lukonde to tell Kayinda to tell to tell N’samba to tell Mupande not to calculate the surface rights fees
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Mr Inappropriate
Regular
Is there an English version of the Dathcom JV agreement floating around?
I'm not doom and gloom . Never have been . I am a realist . I don't want to lose my money just like everyone else doesn't . The articles you dig up just emphasis the negativity anyway . Those articles past and present just remind us of what a f--ked up the Country it is and the situation we find ourselves in . You had me on ignore . What happened ?Probably one of yours, he likes saying it’s all doom and gloom for AVZ
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MoneyBags1348
Top 20
You’ve been a down ramper for years mate, wanting a takeover for as long as I can remember and never supporting the company
Say what ever you want, you’re back on ignore and my password’s changed so won’t be logging back on until I can access my emails, which will hopefully be Friday
Yeh a TO would have been great . $1.50 + was my base . I have never thought for a second AVZ will mine . That's just the way I saw it taking into account the obvious hurdles of the DRC . So if a TO in your mind is being negative then you are correct (for you ) . From memory you have 3 million shares . That's $4.5 mil minimum . Not bad . Anyway lets hope for a reasonable ending to this sh1t show . Thanks for putting me back on ignore , because I'm about to ramp up if I don't see something positive in the near future and you are not going to like it, and I am not here to p1ss you off .
Sammy_da_Smile
Regular
Well, just saw the below on the news.
No mention of the particular lithium company, but does seems odd that we have seen Chinese sponsored articles from DRC media outlets that resemble AFR articles?
Now if the article said he was paid with "bags of snacks" then that would confirm it
www.smh.com.au
Man accused of foreign interference only dealt with open-source information, court told
By Georgina Mitchell
Updated April 17, 2023 — 4.33pm
first published at 1.59pm
A Bondi businessman accused of foreign interference met with two people suspected of being Chinese spies at cafes in Shanghai and was given envelopes of cash to prepare reports on matters including iron ore, lithium and the AUKUS security arrangement, a court has heard.
Alexander Csergo, 55, was arrested on Friday and charged with reckless foreign interference after he was allegedly paid by two people named Ken and Evelyn to prepare the reports about Australian and overseas interests, including the change in the German government.
Csergo’s barrister – high-profile national security lawyer Bernard Collaery – said on Monday that his client provided information from open-source documents as part of a consulting arrangement during China’s COVID shutdown, and he intended to pursue the Commonwealth for ruining his career.
Some information his client used included articles from the Australian Financial Review and the Lowy Institute, Collaery said.
On Monday, Csergo applied for bail in Downing Centre Local Court but was refused by Magistrate Michael Barko, who said there was a strong prosecution case and Csergo was a flight risk due to his extremely strong ties to China.
Barko recited prosecution allegations that Csergo had been approached on LinkedIn in early 2021 and started talking to “Evelyn”, who told him she wanted to know about lithium mining in Australia.
The magistrate said Csergo was then introduced to Evelyn’s boss “Ken” and sent the pair thousands of messages on WeChat, as well as meeting them in Shanghai cafes which were occasionally empty.
Csergo believed the venues had been specifically cleared for their meetings, the magistrate said.
Barko said Csergo would prepare handwritten reports on the topics he had been assigned and was paid cash in envelopes at the meetings, later saying he experienced high levels of anxiety at this time and was in “survival mode”.
“I don’t know what they do in China, but in this country if I read those facts to any layperson they would be highly suspicious of the conduct of the defendant, at the very least,” Barko said.
He earlier asked why Ken and Evelyn could not have prepared the information themselves. “The layperson would say, rhetorically, it stinks.”
Prosecutor Conor McCraith said Csergo had admitted in an interview with police that when he met Ken and Evelyn in 2021 he “immediately suspected” they worked for a Chinese intelligence agency and everything he did afterwards must be considered in that context.
McCraith said Csergo was in communication with the pair for about two years and when he returned to Australia he brought a “shopping list” of intelligence priorities given to him by Ken, but he did not reveal this information to authorities.
“This document was discovered by ASIO three weeks after he arrived in Australia,” McCraith said. “For two years he had been in communication with people he suspected of being spies.”
McCraith said a reasonable person would have informed authorities, but Csergo continued to talk to Ken on WeChat, advised him of an issue between Australia and China in Perth, and even invited him to Australia despite suspecting him of being a spy.
Collaery told the court his client had worked for companies including Telstra, Jaguar Land Rover and Volkswagen, and ran a consulting company that was directly connected to China Telecom and media company JCDecaux.
He said Csergo, who moved to China in 2002, graduated from the University of NSW with a bachelor of science and attended high school at Waverley College in Sydney’s east, where he was athletics captain and played rugby.
The defence barrister said prosecutors seemed to suggest there was something sinister about his client interacting with Ken and Evelyn, who were two or three individuals out of “hundreds” he was in contact with.
Collaery said ASIO and other authorities went through Csergo’s laptop after he fully cooperated and handed over his passwords, and found “all the work he did was from public source documents” plus his own creative efforts.
“These consultancies he undertook commenced during the COVID lockdown in Shanghai,” Collaery said.
“They were a source of income. Cash payments for consulting reports might have a colour to it in Australian terms; it might well be the way business is done in China. It’s not necessarily, on my submission, sinister.”
Collaery said his client “of course” believed Ken and Evelyn were keeping tabs on him, because “that’s how it works in China”.
“He became very worried about that and decided after the almost two-year shutdown in Shanghai that he would ship his possessions home [to Sydney] then return to China at some future time when he believed it would be safe to return.”
Collaery said his client is “a senior, successful Australian businessman in China” but “that has all come tumbling down in the last few weeks.”
He said it was of “great concern” that an Australian Federal Police media release about Csergo’s arrest talked about espionage, which he is not charged with.
“He’s not charged with directly or intentionally supporting anything that could amount to espionage,” Collaery said. “He’s not charged with that, even though the press release uses those words.”
Collaery said the case against his client was “shallow” and he was being pursued “in an unreasonable manner”. He said Csergo intends to pursue the Commonwealth for significant economic loss, for “ruining his career and business”.
Csergo watched the proceedings from custody at Parklea Correctional Centre and was supported in court by his mother and brother. When he was refused bail he exhaled and sat back in his chair.
He will face court again on June 14.
No mention of the particular lithium company, but does seems odd that we have seen Chinese sponsored articles from DRC media outlets that resemble AFR articles?
Now if the article said he was paid with "bags of snacks" then that would confirm it
Man accused of foreign interference only dealt with open-source information, court told
Alexander Csergo is accused of foreign interference. His lawyer said the businessman prepared consulting reports in China using open-source information.
Man accused of foreign interference only dealt with open-source information, court told
By Georgina Mitchell
Updated April 17, 2023 — 4.33pm
first published at 1.59pm
A Bondi businessman accused of foreign interference met with two people suspected of being Chinese spies at cafes in Shanghai and was given envelopes of cash to prepare reports on matters including iron ore, lithium and the AUKUS security arrangement, a court has heard.
Alexander Csergo, 55, was arrested on Friday and charged with reckless foreign interference after he was allegedly paid by two people named Ken and Evelyn to prepare the reports about Australian and overseas interests, including the change in the German government.
Csergo’s barrister – high-profile national security lawyer Bernard Collaery – said on Monday that his client provided information from open-source documents as part of a consulting arrangement during China’s COVID shutdown, and he intended to pursue the Commonwealth for ruining his career.
Some information his client used included articles from the Australian Financial Review and the Lowy Institute, Collaery said.
On Monday, Csergo applied for bail in Downing Centre Local Court but was refused by Magistrate Michael Barko, who said there was a strong prosecution case and Csergo was a flight risk due to his extremely strong ties to China.
Barko recited prosecution allegations that Csergo had been approached on LinkedIn in early 2021 and started talking to “Evelyn”, who told him she wanted to know about lithium mining in Australia.
The magistrate said Csergo was then introduced to Evelyn’s boss “Ken” and sent the pair thousands of messages on WeChat, as well as meeting them in Shanghai cafes which were occasionally empty.
Csergo believed the venues had been specifically cleared for their meetings, the magistrate said.
Barko said Csergo would prepare handwritten reports on the topics he had been assigned and was paid cash in envelopes at the meetings, later saying he experienced high levels of anxiety at this time and was in “survival mode”.
“I don’t know what they do in China, but in this country if I read those facts to any layperson they would be highly suspicious of the conduct of the defendant, at the very least,” Barko said.
He earlier asked why Ken and Evelyn could not have prepared the information themselves. “The layperson would say, rhetorically, it stinks.”
Prosecutor Conor McCraith said Csergo had admitted in an interview with police that when he met Ken and Evelyn in 2021 he “immediately suspected” they worked for a Chinese intelligence agency and everything he did afterwards must be considered in that context.
McCraith said Csergo was in communication with the pair for about two years and when he returned to Australia he brought a “shopping list” of intelligence priorities given to him by Ken, but he did not reveal this information to authorities.
“This document was discovered by ASIO three weeks after he arrived in Australia,” McCraith said. “For two years he had been in communication with people he suspected of being spies.”
McCraith said a reasonable person would have informed authorities, but Csergo continued to talk to Ken on WeChat, advised him of an issue between Australia and China in Perth, and even invited him to Australia despite suspecting him of being a spy.
Collaery told the court his client had worked for companies including Telstra, Jaguar Land Rover and Volkswagen, and ran a consulting company that was directly connected to China Telecom and media company JCDecaux.
He said Csergo, who moved to China in 2002, graduated from the University of NSW with a bachelor of science and attended high school at Waverley College in Sydney’s east, where he was athletics captain and played rugby.
The defence barrister said prosecutors seemed to suggest there was something sinister about his client interacting with Ken and Evelyn, who were two or three individuals out of “hundreds” he was in contact with.
Collaery said ASIO and other authorities went through Csergo’s laptop after he fully cooperated and handed over his passwords, and found “all the work he did was from public source documents” plus his own creative efforts.
“These consultancies he undertook commenced during the COVID lockdown in Shanghai,” Collaery said.
“They were a source of income. Cash payments for consulting reports might have a colour to it in Australian terms; it might well be the way business is done in China. It’s not necessarily, on my submission, sinister.”
Collaery said his client “of course” believed Ken and Evelyn were keeping tabs on him, because “that’s how it works in China”.
“He became very worried about that and decided after the almost two-year shutdown in Shanghai that he would ship his possessions home [to Sydney] then return to China at some future time when he believed it would be safe to return.”
Collaery said his client is “a senior, successful Australian businessman in China” but “that has all come tumbling down in the last few weeks.”
He said it was of “great concern” that an Australian Federal Police media release about Csergo’s arrest talked about espionage, which he is not charged with.
“He’s not charged with directly or intentionally supporting anything that could amount to espionage,” Collaery said. “He’s not charged with that, even though the press release uses those words.”
Collaery said the case against his client was “shallow” and he was being pursued “in an unreasonable manner”. He said Csergo intends to pursue the Commonwealth for significant economic loss, for “ruining his career and business”.
Csergo watched the proceedings from custody at Parklea Correctional Centre and was supported in court by his mother and brother. When he was refused bail he exhaled and sat back in his chair.
He will face court again on June 14.
aanti.dumb
Regular
So i dont understand how cominiere dissolving the JVA means we loose 100% of the project.
AVZ owns %75 Of Dathcom which owns the Rights to Manono. The squabble is over the %15 with Zijin.
Dissolving the JVA just means that the preemptive rights AVZ has are gone and Cominiere off the hook for paying their part of the mine development.
Can someone please explain the reasoning?
Cheers.
AVZ owns %75 Of Dathcom which owns the Rights to Manono. The squabble is over the %15 with Zijin.
Dissolving the JVA just means that the preemptive rights AVZ has are gone and Cominiere off the hook for paying their part of the mine development.
Can someone please explain the reasoning?
Cheers.
9cardomaha
Regular
IF Dathcom JV is terminated, the ownership of Manono would default back to the DRC i think (will check my notes, as i recall having seen something to this affect).
After it defaults to the government it is up to the MoM to reallocate it to a state-owned company, and what do you know, its those fucking snack hungery MFers at Cominiere who get it back.
aanti.dumb
Regular
Surly the AVZ lawyers would have seen this huge red flag and negotiated better terms? To agree to this would be insane. Does anyone have a copy of the JVA?
Azzler
Top 20
We don't yet have info on what grounds they're trying to cancel the JV contract.
We don't really know anything at this point.
It's likely it's as stated by AVZ, an unlawful action, in other words they have no legal recourse to do such a thing.
The purpose is likely just to delay.
AVZ have done everything right, if they were to cancel the JV just because they want to, it would spell the end to any foreign buisness venture that wasn't 100% criminal in the DRC.
If a legal contracts mean nothing, then there is no purpose to a legal contract. Signing one gives no security in the DRC if they were to set this precedent. They would never do that, even as corrupt as things are.
We don't really know anything at this point.
It's likely it's as stated by AVZ, an unlawful action, in other words they have no legal recourse to do such a thing.
The purpose is likely just to delay.
AVZ have done everything right, if they were to cancel the JV just because they want to, it would spell the end to any foreign buisness venture that wasn't 100% criminal in the DRC.
If a legal contracts mean nothing, then there is no purpose to a legal contract. Signing one gives no security in the DRC if they were to set this precedent. They would never do that, even as corrupt as things are.
Better terms on what? The JV would be gone.
Winenut
GO AVZ!!!!
fuck me....
what a fucking nightmare that is
Cominiere is clearly the issue
The corruption and graft there is rife
It makes me very sad for the people of the DRC to see them absolutely rat fucked by their own Govt agencies
Where are you FT????
Where are you in all this????????
I once heard a story about Coles and how in one of their warehouses the culture was so bad that they shut it down and built a new one on the other side of Melbourne. The reason for this is, they could not sack their workers because of the unions, so they built the new warehouse so far away that the workers would not travel. Problem solved.
I read this morning that the DRC government are starting a new organisation, the Inspector General of Mines (IGM), which will be subordinate to the MoM. I also read today that Jules stated that they underestimated the corruption within government.
My first thoughts were "How do you get rid of the corruption"? Start a new organisation and give it the powers of the other organisation eg. cominiere and cami. Staff it with new trusted employees and the multi layers of corruption are gone.
My musings
I read this morning that the DRC government are starting a new organisation, the Inspector General of Mines (IGM), which will be subordinate to the MoM. I also read today that Jules stated that they underestimated the corruption within government.
My first thoughts were "How do you get rid of the corruption"? Start a new organisation and give it the powers of the other organisation eg. cominiere and cami. Staff it with new trusted employees and the multi layers of corruption are gone.
My musings
What it will tell us is that they are all in on it . All on the take . From the TOP down. We need to put the hard word on MoM and Felix. If they don't want to respond we need to give it massive media exposure . Front page New York times , The Weekend Australia , the French Press. At some point we need to call TIME on the current approach and go all in .
cruiser51
Top 20
The JV is available on the Cominière website in 4 files.
La Cominière SA
cominiere.cd
Note 8, it is in French.
I'll write to Penny Wong...oh crap.
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