AVZ Discussion 2022

Charbella

Regular
@
@Sammy_da_Smile @Charbella 8196 - not the bombshell i was hoping for, but the timeline currently:

Dathcom submits application to CAMI to relinquish North on April 1.
Ministerial decree 'expedited' and awareded April 22.

Looking for correspondence around March/April where there is direct request to relinquish the north for awarding the ML on the south.

View attachment 30072 View attachment 30073
Thanks mate for sourcing all the docs.

Just wondering if you have access to the RCCM? Zijin seems to think they are listed as a shareholder of Dathcom.

Franck seems to disagree.

Back in June 2022, they were on the RCCM. 🤔

 

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@

Thanks mate for sourcing all the docs.

Just wondering if you have access to the RCCM? Zijin seems to think they are listed as a shareholder of Dathcom.

Franck seems to disagree.

Back in June 2022, they were on the RCCM. 🤔


Just checked. Its the same shareholders listed today.

  1. AVZ INTERNATIONAL PTY LTD represented by FERGUSON MUNRO NIGEL, born on 03/12/1962 in KUCHING, AU
  2. DATHCOMIR MINING RESOURCES SARL represented by CONG MAOHUAI, born on 22/10/1962 in KINSHASA, CD
  3. LA CONGOLAISE D EXPLOITATION MINIERE represented by MWAMBA MISAO ATHANASE, born on 14/05/1948 in KALEMIE, CD
  4. JIN CHENG MINING COMPANY LIMITED represented by HUANG XIAOHONG, born on 19/07/1983 in GUANGDONG, CN
 
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Charbella

Regular
Just checked. Its the same shareholders listed today.

  1. AVZ INTERNATIONAL PTY LTD represented by FERGUSON MUNRO NIGEL, born on 03/12/1962 in KUCHING, AU
  2. DATHCOMIR MINING RESOURCES SARL represented by CONG MAOHUAI, born on 22/10/1962 in KINSHASA, CD
  3. LA CONGOLAISE D EXPLOITATION MINIERE represented by MWAMBA MISAO ATHANASE, born on 14/05/1948 in KALEMIE, CD
  4. JIN CHENG MINING COMPANY LIMITED represented by HUANG XIAOHONG, born on 19/07/1983 in GUANGDONG, CN
Thanks! Any chance you can share the link?
 
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Dazmac66

Regular
I’m not good at French, but from my understanding, it means AVZ is supported by locals.

We’re all on this emotional roller coaster, sometimes I feel it worth $5 per share, sometimes 20c. Anyway, we can’t do anything during the suspension. 😂
All true mate but sometimes it just does my head in. I think we fall in to the trap of judging others by our standards, morals and world view. This complete headf#ck is just the way it is and always has been in this primitive excuse for a civilized society. They really don't give a rat's arse about their own laws or mining code if they did the President would have intervened many moons ago. The moron flies around the world dressed in 1 undersize suits on his full sized jet telling everyone they should come and waste their fucking time and money exploring for resources in the very bowels of Africa and applying for mythical mining licences only to be analy raped by corrupt ministers partial to wads of Chinese cash. All this only when all the spadework has been completed and billions assured for 40 years. Add to this an information vacuum from our own company and an impossible blend of African style French to English translation to any news we do receive and you have what is a perfect recipe for making a grown man develop uncontrollable full body nervous twitches. Such is life!
 
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Frank

Top 20
It is in the Chinese interest to bring the court case forwards, everyday which passes they look as a country more vulgar.

Might even be smart to withdraw from the ICC case, wankers.

And what had to happen happened: China calls into question the credibility of the IGF Report on Sicomines!

Will Jules Alingete burn his wings?

It is not impossible after its own rant, namely the Final Report of the Sicomines Investigation started with a 60-day fact-finding mission ordered on June 24, 2022, but ended on August 24 of the same year.

Indeed, this mission did not approach the General Management of the Sino-Congolese joint venture until August 29, 2022, that is to say out of time.

More seriously, without the knowledge of the Directorate General of the Dgda and the Minister of Finance - yet the competent authority to issue, suspend or abolish this type of duty - it ordered the suspension of customs exemption duties.

Thus, at the start already, the IGF purposely put itself at fault; which does not look like Jules Alingete, reputed to be prudent...

Has the boss of the IGF been under internal or external pressure to obtain the dissolution of Sicomines at all costs, failing the suspension of the activities of this company which has never been 100% Chinese as the opinion think so, but rather Congolese and Chinese? We wouldn't like to know.

Still, once the wine was drawn, all that remained for the IGF was to drink it.

Presumably, this is what happened between September 2022 and February 2023, a period during which Jules Alingete gave Sicomines a hard time.

First by telling her that she had no legal existence; then by imposing demands on it, the first of which concerns the renegotiation of the Sino-Congolese contract.

However, the thesis of the non-existence of Sicomines with regard to the Congolese legal arsenal has turned against the Democratic Republic of Congo.

Indeed, how a legally non-existent entity had to associate Gecamines, a legally constituted company!

And how, for years, Gecamines continued to receive dividends from a non-existent company!

And how, this non-existent company has it financed infrastructures that the Government of the Republic puts to its credit!

Realizing the nonsense of this requirement, which is likely to cover the country with ridicule, the IGF renounced it to impose the renegotiation of the Sino-Congolese contract on the basis of about fifteen requirements, however, falling within the competence of the Government.

No one is supposed to ignore that the Grouping of Chinese Companies (GEC) is against not with a service or a public establishment, but the Congolese Government represented by the Ministry of Itpr.

The following is the really muscular reaction of the spokesperson for the Chinese Embassy in the DRC and the General Management of Sicomines on the same day: February 17, 2023.

In his comment, the spokesperson states that the embassy “learned with amazement of the publication of the report on the Chinese Contract by the General Inspectorate of Finance (IGF) of the Democratic Republic of Congo”.

The Embassy, he continues, "regrets to note that the report, whose content is full of prejudice, does not correspond to reality, cannot be considered credible and has no constructive value".

Affirming that "The Chinese Contract is a fine example of a win-win partnership" and that this is "an undeniable fact", all the more so since "Many tangible achievements prove that the Congolese side has effectively benefited from this cooperation", the embassy notes the position of the Chinese government in two sentences:

First, China "encourages Chinese companies to work with their Congolese partner to improve cooperation by making it more beneficial to the Congolese side, and to resolve disagreements through friendly and reasonable dialogue".

Secondly, China says it "will firmly defend the legitimate rights and interests of Chinese enterprises and resolutely retaliate against any violation of the legitimate rights and interests of Chinese enterprises."

However, we should never come to that since the Sino-Congolese contract provides in its article 20 the mechanism for the settlement of any dispute: either amicably, or, in the event of persistent disagreement, arbitration by the ICSID ( International Center for Settlement of Investment Disputes).

As for Sicomines, it promises to assess "the follow-up that should be given in order to defend its rights" and recalls that "The DRC is a state of law where the right of defense is enshrined and guaranteed by the Constitution".

It considers that "In particular, the security of private investments, national or foreign, is guaranteed in the DRC and the commitments made to investors cannot be flouted".


It is almost, in duet, the answer of the shepherd to the shepherdess.

Controversial, the IGF Report could make some leave their feathers, others their skin, which amounts to the same thing.

Once again, the advisers - who are rarely good payers - engage the DRC in an arm wrestling which we should have avoided.

For John Omombo, former communication officer of the Sino-Congolese Program Coordination Office, “Congo has no better friend than the Chinese”. :ROFLMAO: :sick: :unsure:

mediacongo


Here's a thought Old China,

PotKettleBlack.jpeg
 
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Samus

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All true mate but sometimes it just does my head in. I think we fall in to the trap of judging others by our standards, morals and world view. This complete headf#ck is just the way it is and always has been in this primitive excuse for a civilized society. They really don't give a rat's arse about their own laws or mining code if they did the President would have intervened many moons ago. The moron flies around the world dressed in 1 undersize suits on his full sized jet telling everyone they should come and waste their fucking time and money exploring for resources in the very bowels of Africa and applying for mythical mining licences only to be analy raped by corrupt ministers partial to wads of Chinese cash. All this only when all the spadework has been completed and billions assured for 40 years. Add to this an information vacuum from our own company and an impossible blend of African style French to English translation to any news we do receive and you have what is a perfect recipe for making a grown man develop uncontrollable full body nervous twitches. Such is life!
Summed it up beautifully there @Dazmac66 👌
 
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Any chance of sourcing the document from when Dathcom brought CAMI to court about the surface rights payment @9cardomaha ?
20221214_144429.jpg
 
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Charbella

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Winenut

GO AVZ!!!!
IMO I'd stretches on much longer we'll fail. I can't see the government allow this to continue in deadlock for another 12 months when they've made an EV battery industry a linchpin of their government progression policy. To me it feels like we have a short-ish windows to follow the MoM 'suggestion' of finding amity between shareholders to prevent paralysis of the project as she put it before other measures are put in. Wouldn't be beyond the government to secure what it clearly sees as a strategic industry by enforcing momentum. However that looks.
Tell you how it looks..

It looks ministerial corruption and then blackmail
 
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Sangster

Member
Document 8196 on page 1 states a partial renunciation of area, not rights. Page 2 defines the boundary vertices and the area of the part being renounced. Neither page suggests we renounced part of our rights. Both refer to area.

Without other supporting documentation 8196 is a full renounciation of all our rights to part of the area of tenement 13359.

MoM rescinded this, Nigel argued it still stands. Personally I think MoM did the right thing for the wrong reasons, because with 13359 unified the north cannot go to AJN. I'd like to better understand why Nigel appears to be arguing against the reunification of 13359.
 
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Document 8196 on page 1 states a partial renunciation of area, not rights. Page 2 defines the boundary vertices and the area of the part being renounced. Neither page suggests we renounced part of our rights. Both refer to area.

Without other supporting documentation 8196 is a full renounciation of all our rights to part of the area of tenement 13359.

MoM rescinded this, Nigel argued it still stands. Personally I think MoM did the right thing for the wrong reasons, because with 13359 unified the north cannot go to AJN. I'd like to better understand why Nigel appears to be arguing against the reunification of 13359.
The devil is in the detail

20230207_100024.jpg


The MoM used Cominiere's salty tears as her reason for cancelling the initial decree. They only started making noise about this after they got caught selling the 15% of Dathcom illegally. However, it's important to note that the timing of their appeal being announced on December 7th 2022 is in the 60 day window of the Zijin offer.

Here's what Cominiere are claiming:

20230207_101741.jpg

20230207_101328.jpg


I still think the justification used by the MoM is setting a path to give the north to someone else, given the need and urgency, because Dathcom were causing delays on that part of the project

20230221_021940.jpg


Nigel obviously feels more confident in retaining the most amount of Manono he can for Dathcom by laying out the legal reasoning proving the new decrees are illegal. This is the correct strategy given what has most likely occurred with Cominiere accepting an offer from Zijin that is motivating the MoM's intentions imo
 
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Samus

Top 20
MoM rescinded this, Nigel argued it still stands. Personally I think MoM did the right thing for the wrong reasons, because with 13359 unified the north cannot go to AJN. I'd like to better understand why Nigel appears to be arguing against the reunification of 13359.
100% agree @Sangster. WTF is really going on here? Why does Nigel want the tenement split and why did they apply to do that in the first place?
He said he was tricked into it at the roadshow but now sends a public letter condeming this decree just as much as the one which revoked the PE.
 
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llhtom

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100% agree @Sangster. WTF is really going on here? Why does Nigel want the tenement split and why did they apply to do that in the first place?
He said he was tricked into it at the roadshow but now sends a public letter condeming this decree just as much as the one which revoked the PE.
In my view, maybe it was done informing Dathcom first causing confusion. Nigel would have responded after consulting with a lawyer. Since he has responded, why there has been no announcement made from AVZ to keep us in the loop?
 
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Mickyb64

Regular
In my view, maybe it was done informing Dathcom first causing confusion. Nigel would have responded after consulting with a lawyer. Since he has responded, why there has been no announcement made from AVZ to keep us in the loop?
We're 100% overdue for an update from the BOD. This shit is getting ridiculous.
 
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Charbella

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Lithium de Manono, a Tasmanian already made a fortune before mining - Ouragan.cd
 
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obe wan

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obe wan

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I thought maybe fear because of the unexpected cancellation without information and without knowing the intention and the possible start of revoking the complete license. To stop this process and to show they will fight against it. Additionally to increase international pressure to make it clear that they should do the right thing. And to finally make a warning shoot for what they could only use the illegal process of cancellation at the moment. But like so many things we will probably never find it out.
Likely true, because apparently / NF only heard of the Decree on the friday ; they shot back with that letter of appeal on the Saturday, so they were likely punching in the dark and had minimal angles for contact into CAMI / MoM offices until Monday ; Nigel may have come in a bit premature , but he may have been in panic mode

The question was asked from AVZ office a day or so after the ann dropped and the response was that the decrees had come off , but that was all
 
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RHyNO

Regular
Oh my god, what the fark does that last sentence mean? One minute I have enough coin to retire, next minute I am going insane trying to read gibberish! Anyway, thanks for posting mouse. I am thinking this is good news as the locals are reportedly backing AVZ and denouncing the Chinese.
Keep in mind Cath are Chinese and are our largest partner.
 
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