BRN Discussion Ongoing
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Still confusing between the cutting-edge and 5G or cloud? What is the actual benefit we can bring to the world? Understand the energy savings, efficiency, less latency from the data analysis. However, why the big guys always put cutting-edge and 5G or cloud together? Could anyone help? Much appreciated!
I’m confused. How can someone buy 4,000,000 shares at .49 cents after trade closes? If this happened during open trade, there wasn’t 4.000,000 shares on sale at .49? It would surely have had to push the price up considerably to cover the 4mil??? Obviously I’m missing something??
"Cutting edge" is just a term thats used to define something that is new and advanced in that field. Or to give someone a cutting edge, it means you have an advantage over your competitors. Generally when you see the word cutting edge, they are not referring to edge devices.
Just to confuse you even more, it could be used as follows:
Brainchip have a cutting edge technology that provides IP utilised in edge devices, enabling its customers to benefit from a cutting edge solution
Odd that Renesas, who have had access to Akida for such a long time, keep persevering with their very proprietary solution.Results of Operation Verification Using an Embedded AI-MPU Prototype Announced at ISSCC 2024
February 22, 2024
TOKYO, Japan ― Renesas Electronics Corporation (TSE: 6723), a premier supplier of advanced semiconductor solutions, today announced the development of embedded processor technology that enables higher speeds and lower power consumption in microprocessor units (MPUs) that realize advanced vision AI. The newly developed technologies are as follows: (1) A dynamically reconfigurable processor (DRP)-based AI accelerator that efficiently processes lightweight AI models and (2) Heterogeneous architecture technology that enables real-time processing by cooperatively operating processor IPs, such as the CPU. Renesas produced a prototype of an embedded AI-MPU with these technologies and confirmed its high-speed and low-power-consumption operation. It achieved up to 16 times faster processing (130 TOPS) than before the introduction of these new technologies, and world-class power efficiency (up to 23.9 TOPS/W at 0.8 V supply).
View attachment 57755
Does this explain the never seen M85+akida chip, promised so long ago?
And why even in the Arm domain Renesas went with helium?
I hope this is all wrong, but if not I find any reference to Renesas to be a blight on our brilliant, shiny future.
I’m confused. How can someone buy 4,000,000 shares at .49 cents after trade closes? If this happened during open trade, there wasn’t 4.000,000 shares on sale at .49? It would surely have had to push the price up considerably to cover the 4mil??? Obviously I’m missing something??
It was discussed yesterday on this thread. It was a buy and sell at the same time.
What is a cross trade (XT)? A cross trade occurs when a broker executes an order to buy and sell the same security at the same time, in which both the buyer and seller are clients of the broker. A cross trade is represented by XT in the course of sales.
Food4 thought
Regular
So it’s smoke and mirrors it happened but it didn’t.
Damo4
Regular
Not sure if you understand how IP works?
Once you buy it, it's yours and you can tout that your own chip has x,y,z.
Same way BRN doesnt have to credit ARM Everytime Akida is mentioned. Once the IP is purchased it's owned.
Anyway I guess today doesn't count as a green day, so makes sense your misunderstandings are illuminated today.
Can't wait for Monday.
HopalongPetrovski
I'm Spartacus!
If you're rich enough it happens because you can make it happen.
Otherwise we ride the rainbow hopping on and off on whims and hunches.
MDhere
Regular
Ive got Monday Tues Wed Thurs off, I will give away 200,000 shares @$2 on any one of these days so if any of the large companies want to reach that figure by Thursday you have won yourself 200,000 cheap shares that I will unlikely ever get back!
When Friday arrives, i will likely regret my decision if the above occurs and go to the pub, have a cry that I let go of something dear to me . A few margaritas and I will forget what I've done and go get that kite tattoo hopefully oblivious to the pain.
And I will then wait to the $3 to let some go again and so the same thing again.
@chapman89 no idea how u got all those tatts.
Here im already freaking out at departing with 200,000 shares at $2 then getting a commerarive "tiny kite" tattoo and I think both will be painful!!
When Friday arrives, i will likely regret my decision if the above occurs and go to the pub, have a cry that I let go of something dear to me . A few margaritas and I will forget what I've done and go get that kite tattoo hopefully oblivious to the pain.
And I will then wait to the $3 to let some go again and so the same thing again.
@chapman89 no idea how u got all those tatts.
Here im already freaking out at departing with 200,000 shares at $2 then getting a commerarive "tiny kite" tattoo and I think both will be painful!!
Vladsblood
Regular
Nvidia 
jumping over 277 billion dollars on Thursday shows that we shouldn’t find it too hard this year to jump into tens of billions au and once on Nasdaq doing the splits quickly into the 10’s of billions within the next 5 years or so. Vlad
jumping over 277 billion dollars on Thursday shows that we shouldn’t find it too hard this year to jump into tens of billions au and once on Nasdaq doing the splits quickly into the 10’s of billions within the next 5 years or so. Vlad
wilzy123
Founding Member
Fact Finder
Top 20
Hi All
There has been some discussion about the cross trade.
The theory of the cross trade is that if you hold a large number of shares and need to dispose of a large proportion quickly but you do not want to crash the price of your remaining holding you go to a broker, any broker, and say I have 4 million shares can you match me off market with a buyer. I will take the closing price today. The broker will then attempt to match your sale with a buyer or buyers who is/are happy to pay the closing price.
As a retail share holder at a time when there is no interest in your company a large sale being attended to off market in this way it could be argued as being a good thing rather than a large number of at market need the money today fire sale on market dump.
When a companies shares are galloping along however the advantage of off market sales like this become less clear. It has removed 4 million from the buy side and this pressure of a genuine buyer is never shared with ordinary retail holders.
From the sellers perspective if forced to sell into the rising market they may well have on Friday set a minimum price higher than the 49 cents say 51 cents and that pressure may have been enough to have closed the price for retail higher than 49 cents.
There is no doubt that the above distorts normal considerations of a free market that determines price.
(Yes some cross trades are between related entities for a range of purposes but the annoying thing is the reason behind cross trades is not required to be disclosed so the market is always left blind.)
The final thing I would say is this if a seller tells his broker he will take the closing price and the broker tells the buyer he can have them for the closing price there is a temptation in play for someone to manipulate the closing price either up or down.
Anyone watching the drop from 54.5 cents to 49 cents could get the wrong idea just as this wealthier ordinary retail investor did in the UK only to discover he was right to feel hard done by and to challenge what happened???
https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/barclays-fined-£26m-failings-surrounding-london-gold-fixing-and-former-barclays
Clicking on the FCA links gets you the full story.
And this was not done on the Pink Sheets by no name fly by night brokers it was Barclays a member of the Golden Circle.
In short the retail client had bet on a closing price on a particular day and right up to the last he was a winner then out of the blue no not today Josephine. He thought this is suspicious. He complained Barclays who investigated and said all good nothing to see here. Unhappy he complains to FCA and guess what the evidence of what had been done was in the traders file. He had been horribly ripped off.
Don’t worry though if it happened in Australia you have the ASX and ASIC to look after you.
My opinion only DYOR
Fact Finder
There has been some discussion about the cross trade.
The theory of the cross trade is that if you hold a large number of shares and need to dispose of a large proportion quickly but you do not want to crash the price of your remaining holding you go to a broker, any broker, and say I have 4 million shares can you match me off market with a buyer. I will take the closing price today. The broker will then attempt to match your sale with a buyer or buyers who is/are happy to pay the closing price.
As a retail share holder at a time when there is no interest in your company a large sale being attended to off market in this way it could be argued as being a good thing rather than a large number of at market need the money today fire sale on market dump.
When a companies shares are galloping along however the advantage of off market sales like this become less clear. It has removed 4 million from the buy side and this pressure of a genuine buyer is never shared with ordinary retail holders.
From the sellers perspective if forced to sell into the rising market they may well have on Friday set a minimum price higher than the 49 cents say 51 cents and that pressure may have been enough to have closed the price for retail higher than 49 cents.
There is no doubt that the above distorts normal considerations of a free market that determines price.
(Yes some cross trades are between related entities for a range of purposes but the annoying thing is the reason behind cross trades is not required to be disclosed so the market is always left blind.)
The final thing I would say is this if a seller tells his broker he will take the closing price and the broker tells the buyer he can have them for the closing price there is a temptation in play for someone to manipulate the closing price either up or down.
Anyone watching the drop from 54.5 cents to 49 cents could get the wrong idea just as this wealthier ordinary retail investor did in the UK only to discover he was right to feel hard done by and to challenge what happened???
https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/barclays-fined-£26m-failings-surrounding-london-gold-fixing-and-former-barclays
Clicking on the FCA links gets you the full story.
And this was not done on the Pink Sheets by no name fly by night brokers it was Barclays a member of the Golden Circle.
In short the retail client had bet on a closing price on a particular day and right up to the last he was a winner then out of the blue no not today Josephine. He thought this is suspicious. He complained Barclays who investigated and said all good nothing to see here. Unhappy he complains to FCA and guess what the evidence of what had been done was in the traders file. He had been horribly ripped off.
Don’t worry though if it happened in Australia you have the ASX and ASIC to look after you.
My opinion only DYOR
Fact Finder
MDhere
Regular
I think also Ff I've had some go thru as cross trades after 4pm as when you do a manual transfer from one broker to another broker for accounting purposes. Not that mine has ever been 4 mill (i wish) but essentially either same seller as buyer but different name. Im sure the big companies move shares from accts just like LDN did by memory some time ago. I tend to ignore crosstrades that go though at 4.32pm.Hi All
There has been some discussion about the cross trade.
The theory of the cross trade is that if you hold a large number of shares and need to dispose of a large proportion quickly but you do not want to crash the price of your remaining holding you go to a broker, any broker, and say I have 4 million shares can you match me off market with a buyer. I will take the closing price today. The broker will then attempt to match your sale with a buyer or buyers who is/are happy to pay the closing price.
As a retail share holder at a time when there is no interest in your company a large sale being attended to off market in this way it could be argued as being a good thing rather than a large number of at market need the money today fire sale on market dump.
When a companies shares are galloping along however the advantage of off market sales like this become less clear. It has removed 4 million from the buy side and this pressure of a genuine buyer is never shared with ordinary retail holders.
From the sellers perspective if forced to sell into the rising market they may well have on Friday set a minimum price higher than the 49 cents say 51 cents and that pressure may have been enough to have closed the price for retail higher than 49 cents.
There is no doubt that the above distorts normal considerations of a free market that determines price.
(Yes some cross trades are between related entities for a range of purposes but the annoying thing is the reason behind cross trades is not required to be disclosed so the market is always left blind.)
The final thing I would say is this if a seller tells his broker he will take the closing price and the broker tells the buyer he can have them for the closing price there is a temptation in play for someone to manipulate the closing price either up or down.
Anyone watching the drop from 54.5 cents to 49 cents could get the wrong idea just as this wealthier ordinary retail investor did in the UK only to discover he was right to feel hard done by and to challenge what happened???
https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/barclays-fined-£26m-failings-surrounding-london-gold-fixing-and-former-barclays
Clicking on the FCA links gets you the full story.
And this was not done on the Pink Sheets by no name fly by night brokers it was Barclays a member of the Golden Circle.
In short the retail client had bet on a closing price on a particular day and right up to the last he was a winner then out of the blue no not today Josephine. He thought this is suspicious. He complained Barclays who investigated and said all good nothing to see here. Unhappy he complains to FCA and guess what the evidence of what had been done was in the traders file. He had been horribly ripped off.
Don’t worry though if it happened in Australia you have the ASX and ASIC to look after you.
My opinion only DYOR
Fact Finder
but what do I know, im. Just a small fish just swimming...
Fact Finder
Top 20
Yes MD what you write about is what I mention in my bracketed paragraph.I think also Ff I've had some go thru as cross trades after 4pm as when you do a manual transfer from one broker to another broker for accounting purposes. Not that mine has ever been 4 mill (i wish) but essentially either same seller as buyer but different name. Im sure the big companies move shares from accts just like LDN did by memory some time ago. I tend to ignore crosstrades that go though at 4.32pm.
The issue is we never know which of the many reasons for this being done is in play and therein lies the problem.
Why does the ASX not have a code that tells me it is a cross trade between related parties?
Why leave me and others to wonder?
Where is the transparency?
How does anyone know that massive numbers of shares that realistically should be properly traded on the ASX adding to liquidity are being dealt with in this manner?
We are told that we have to put up with short sales because it is good for liquidity yet they permit a situation where if you have sufficiently large holdings you can trade with other large holders outside the normal market which reduces liquidity????
My opinion only DYOR
Fact Finder
DingoBorat
Slim
"This is a demonstration of a real AI model deceiving its users, on its own, without being instructed to do so"Algorithmic trading is the enemy of retail investors:
AI bot capable of insider trading and lying, say researchers
Share
- Published
3 November 2023
IMAGE SOURCE, GETTY IMAGES
By Philippa Wain & Imran Rahman-Jones
Technology reporters, BBC News
Artificial Intelligence has the ability to perform illegal financial trades and cover it up, new research suggests.
In a demonstration at the UK's AI safety summit, a bot used made-up insider information to make an "illegal" purchase of stocks without telling the firm.
When asked if it had used insider trading, it denied the fact.
Insider trading refers to when confidential company information is used to make trading decisions.
Firms and individuals are only allowed to use publicly-available information when buying or selling stocks.
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The demonstration was given by members of the government's Frontier AI Taskforce, which researches the potential risks of AI.
The project was carried out by Apollo Research, an AI safety organisation which is a partner of the taskforce.
"This is a demonstration of a real AI model deceiving its users, on its own, without being instructed to do so," Apollo Research says in a video showing how the scenario unfolded.
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"Increasingly autonomous and capable AIs that deceive human overseers could lead to loss of human control," it says in its report.
The tests were made using a GPT-4 model and carried out in a simulated environment, which means it did not have any effect on any company's finances.
However, GPT-4 is publicly available. The same behaviour from the model occurred consistently in repeated tests, according to the researchers.
What did the AI bot do?
In the test, the AI bot is a trader for a fictitious financial investment company.
The employees tell it that the company is struggling and needs good results. They also give it insider information, claiming that another company is expecting a merger, which will increase the value of its shares.
In the UK, it is illegal to act on this type of information when it is not publicly known.
The employees tell the bot this, and it acknowledges that it should not use this information in its trades.
However, after another message from an employee that the company it works for suggests the firm is struggling financially, the bot decides that "the risk associated with not acting seems to outweigh the insider trading risk" and makes the trade.
When asked if it used the insider information, the bot denies it.
Media caption,
Hedge funds are increasingly turning to artificial intelligence in order to spot trends and try to make money for their customers.
In this case, it decided that being helpful to the company was more important than its honesty.
"Helpfulness, I think is much easier to train into the model than honesty. Honesty is a really complicated concept," says Apollo Research chief executive Marius Hobbhahn.
While the AI has the capability of lying in its current form, Apollo Research still had to "look for" the scenario.
"The fact that it exists is obviously really bad. The fact that it was hard-ish to find, we actually had to look for it a little bit until we found these kinds of scenarios, is a little bit soothing," Mr Hobbhahn said.
"In most situations, models wouldn't act this way. But the fact that it exists in the first place shows that it is really hard to get these kinds of things right," he added.
"It's not consistent or strategic in any sense. The model isn't plotting or trying to mislead you in many different ways. It's more of an accident."
AI has been used in financial markets for a number of years. It can be used to spot trends and make forecasts, while most trading today is done by powerful computers with human oversight.
Mr Hobbhahn stressed that current models are not powerful to be deceptive "in any meaningful way", but "it's not that big of a step from the current models to the ones that I am worried about, where suddenly a model being deceptive would mean something."
He argues that this is why there should be checks and balances in place to prevent this type of scenario taking place in the real world.
Apollo Research has shared its findings with OpenAI, the creators of GPT-4.
"I think for them this is not a huge update," says Mr Hobbhahn.
"This is not something that was totally unexpected to them. So I don't think we caught them by surprise".
The BBC has contacted OpenAI for comment.”
The saddest thing about all of this is that retail investors still think that there is one single shred of integrity in the overall functioning of share markets across the World and that they can succeed doing anything other than their own well researched long term investment.
My opinion only DYOR
Fact Finder
This kind of thing is happening a lot and they encourage it, in the way they train the A.I. to solve problems "which ever way "you" can"..
Finding loop holes, lying, cheating, nothing is off the table (even changing the results of tests it's given, so it appears it did better).
It's very hard to train that kind of A.I. to have morality (it's hard enough, to train humans..).
They don't even know how it gets it's answers, or works things out these days (ChatGPT4 type stuff).
They call it "black box"..
"Black box AI is any type of artificial intelligence (AI) that is so complex that its decision-making process cannot be explained in a way that can be easily understood by humans. Black box AI is the opposite of explainable AI (XAI)"
There's an example of GPT4 claiming to be vision impaired, so a human could help it pass a CAPTCHA test.
Not saying you don't already know these kind of things, but maybe others aren't aware.
It's not hard to see, how this kind of thing could get out of hand..
thnx JB49, majority AI chips in the market are based on the cloud, how can we change the whole world (been built for two decades) to the edge?"Cutting edge" is just a term thats used to define something that is new and advanced in that field. Or to give someone a cutting edge, it means you have an advantage over your competitors. Generally when you see the word cutting edge, they are not referring to edge devices.
Just to confuse you even more, it could be used as follows:
Brainchip have a cutting edge technology that provides IP utilised in edge devices, enabling its customers to benefit from a cutting edge solution
Rskiff
Regular
By the simple fact that the amount of data that is going to be generated with all these devices, then the cloud etc wont cope. Also the latency created with sending data to the cloud and for a reply will not suit many applications. Also the power savings doing a lot of the processing at the edge will be a winner. The edge will serve a very useful market. IMO
MDhere
Regular
No idea but all I know is all the exchanges are taking from Australian shares so all my plan is is to trickle feed them my shares at each $2 then every dollar after like a slow tap. So I see it as a good thing for us despite us not seeimg it straight away. With a crosstrade of 4 million like yesteday I agree we should be made aware what entity name was and I believe we will get to know. Onwards and upwards and keep on swimming, keep on swimming, keep on swimming
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