AVZ Discussion 2022

[cruiser51]

Because I love you all, here is a translated transcript, obviously there will be some elements lost in translation from auto-translate + AI.

Interesting part is from 02:32 onwards, shocking if true and really highlights how different state actors are working against even Felix's interests.

00:02
Hello. A dramatic twist in the Manono lithium saga. The Australian company AVZ Minerals is resuming legal proceedings against the DRC (Democratic Republic of Congo), despite a framework agreement signed in May with the American company, Cobold Metals. What happened?
Back in May, an agreement was reached. AVZ suspended its complaint with ICSID (International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes), the body responsible for resolving disputes between investors and states, to allow for negotiations regarding the strategic lithium project in Manono. But on June 24, AVZ announced: "We are resuming the legal battle."

00:39
Why? Because, according to AVZ, the DRC did not engage in discussions during the suspension period. What is AVZ claiming? Since 2023, the company has contested the Congolese authorities' refusal to grant a mining license. It still hopes to assert its rights over the southern portion of the deposit, which Cobold wants to acquire.
But the other half of the site is already in the hands of Chinese company Zijin Mining, thanks to an agreement signed with the Congolese state-owned company Cominière. AVZ is also suing Cominière for breach of partnership.

01:16
Two parallel legal actions, but one single issue: control over one of the world’s largest lithium deposits.
This is unfolding just as the DRC and the U.S. are implementing their strategic agreement on critical minerals and security. Cobold, backed by American funding, hoped to secure the Manono project under this framework. But with the arbitration resuming, the legal climate is darkening, and Cobold’s ambitions may be slowed.

01:51
The renewed confrontation between AVZ and the DRC risks destabilizing the fragile balance among foreign partners, the Congolese enterprise, and the state itself. The stakes are enormous. Who will exploit Congolese lithium in the coming years—and under what conditions?
To be continued.


02:32
They were warmly received and impressed by President Tshisekedi’s welcome. The President gave his agreement so that everything could proceed without issue.
Congo and Washington—because the mining license had complications, Congo was being asked for $10 billion, likely to settle for $5 billion after judgment in Washington.


03:40
It should have been the Congolese government announcing this—not Cobold—because it is their country allowing these actors in.
Washington Group—I'll tell you something. President’s team received AVZ in Kinshasa on April 1. The President was very kind and gave clear and firm instructions.
They were very happy and impressed. But when they returned to Washington, the Congolese delegation contradicted what the President had said. He had said A, and they were now saying B. That’s my big issue.


04:19
A president cannot give his word (A), and then his team says something else (B). This is the U.S.-Congo pilot project. Even Bill Gates got involved.
This isn’t personal, I’m just speaking generally.
The behavior of President Tshisekedi’s group in Washington was disastrous.


05:15
They got into a shouting match with AVZ representatives. Tshisekedi’s people scolded them, and it escalated. I was even contacted. They don’t realize the State Department meetings are recorded.
They scolded a woman from AVZ—she cried and considered resigning.
No basic courtesy. They acted like bosses.
They even tried to suggest replacing AVZ with another company. AVZ got angry and threatened to sell its rights elsewhere.


06:34
That’s why the first person thanked was Secretary Mike Rubio. I shared that, didn’t I? In Kinshasa, ask yourselves—what did we do to that woman?
If you won’t speak up, I will tell the President. She nearly resigned. Mike had to intervene to stop it. That’s why Cobold later tried to distance themselves from this.


They want to build infrastructure, create jobs—60% Congolese—support local communities, and succeed in transforming the industry in Congo.
If you don’t cooperate, they’ll go develop it in Rwanda.


08:12
Congo is chaos. You never bring the right people to the table. We’re shocked by your behavior.
In America, we don’t operate like you do in Congo. Over there, people tolerate anything.


"Do you know who I am?"—is that how we act? No.
In work, we don’t care who you are—not the brother, sister, cousin, adviser, or minister of Tshisekedi. It doesn’t matter.


08:35
Your bad habits from Mobutu and Kabila—don’t bring that to Tshisekedi. He’ll fire all of you. These are revelations. He’ll have no choice.


09:19
And understand this: these Americans, their number one goal is to remove China.
That group wanted to bring in the Chinese, but the Americans saw through it.
That’s why Cobold, backed by Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos, said: “No, we’re buying all of AVZ’s shares.”
If we had smarter people, we could have thought through all the rights AVZ had.

The inherit problem with the DRC is that all say they are the most important people to deal with, so address your brown paper bags to me, me, me.
Thieving fukwits!

 

[Mute22]

The inherit problem with the DRC is that all say they are the most important people to deal with, so address your brown paper bags to me, me, me.
Thieving fukwits!

Really shows what personalities Nigel must have been dealing with in the Washington talks over the last few months.

Kobold goes to Felix who gives his blessing, delegation goes to Washington picking up a few paper bags on the way and battle/contradict him.

It's literally treasonous if true.

Reassuring he mentions that the weight of the situation is because this is the 'US-DRC pilot project'.

 

[Winenut]

Damn mate come on you've just cost me my job as TSE AVZ thread official French translator... thanks......

ce la vie......

 

[j.l]

How thin-skinned are these people?

It's not just Nigel asking social media to cool off...

 

[Samus]

The behavior of President Tshisekedi’s group in Washington was disastrous.


05:15
They got into a shouting match with AVZ representatives. Tshisekedi’s people scolded them, and it escalated. I was even contacted. They don’t realize the State Department meetings are recorded.
They scolded a woman from AVZ—she cried and considered resigning.
No basic courtesy. They acted like bosses.
They even tried to suggest replacing AVZ with another company. AVZ got angry and threatened to sell its rights elsewhere.

LOL what the fuck am I even reading here??

Sounds like when Serge got heckled by Kibeya during his mining week speech or whatever it was.

What's sort of funnier but not really is how the fuck these backwards morons get away with behaving like this. Seemingly against the President's wishes but who fucking knows in that department. Maybe it's all just a big show to stupefy normal people. It's working!
Then they carry on like babies if anyone gives them a bit of shit on social media.

Who's saying all this crap anyway?

 

[BRICK]

And his reindeer gang bang your cat

These will be the comments i miss when this thread wraps up in 10 years time

 

[Penskefile]

though your repeated slavering over Trump is pretty cringeworthy, I did offer to give him a happy ending should our issues be resolved so perhaps I'm not one to talk

I reckon you’d give him one either way

 

[j.l]

LOL what the fuck am I even reading here??

Sounds like when Serge got heckled by Kibeya during his mining week speech or whatever it was.

What's sort of funnier but not really is how the fuck these backwards morons get away with behaving like this. Seemingly against the President's wishes but who fucking knows in that department. Maybe it's all just a big show to stupefy normal people. It's working!
Then they carry on like babies if anyone gives them a bit of shit on social media.

Who's saying all this crap anyway?

My thoughts exactly.

It's like some political sitcom, Yes Minister, Hollowmen or Utopia, but real and painful.

 

[BRICK]

I reckon you’d give him one either way

For $12 USD id look him in the eyes as i do it.

 

[TheCount]

These will be the comments i miss when this thread wraps up in 10 years time

Ahhhhhhhhh, we'll always have the nudie runs!!

 

[Roon]

I reckon you’d give him one either way

I take my opportunities where I can get them these days

 

[LOCKY82]

Accord de paix RDC-Rwanda ce vendredi 27 juin à Washington : pourquoi la signature par les ministres des affaires étrangères sera définitive alors que le processus de Luanda prévoyait la signature par les Chefs d’Etat ?

La journée du vendredi 27 juin 2025 à Washington sera marquée par la signature de l'accord de paix entre la République démocratique du Congo représentée par Thérèse Kayikwamba Wagner et le Rwanda représenté par

actualite.cd

The article from Actualite.cd reports on the peace agreement between the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and Rwanda, which is set to be signed by the Ministers of Foreign Affairs on June 27, 2025, in Washington. This arrangement differs from the initial plan for a presidential signing, as experts from both countries have already finalized and initialed the agreement, leaving only the formal signing for the ministers. The previous Luanda agreement was not signed by the presidents due to the unresolved M23 group issue, which is now being addressed through the Doha process. The upcoming summit of Heads of State will focus on regional peace, prosperity, and economic stability rather than signing or validating the agreement. The agreement itself covers critical aspects such as territorial integrity, cessation of hostilities, disarmament of armed groups, a joint security mechanism, refugee return, humanitarian access, and regional economic integration.

 

[LOCKY82]

LOL what the fuck am I even reading here??

Sounds like when Serge got heckled by Kibeya during his mining week speech or whatever it was.

What's sort of funnier but not really is how the fuck these backwards morons get away with behaving like this. Seemingly against the President's wishes but who fucking knows in that department. Maybe it's all just a big show to stupefy normal people. It's working!
Then they carry on like babies if anyone gives them a bit of shit on social media.

Who's saying all this crap anyway?

It reads like someone with lots of random information and a bad dose of tourette's

 

[OmarsCominYo]

Was going to post something about an Ali G sketch from that pic but don't want to get the Qataris offside too

It's hard to get a handle on just how in-grained and shameless this sort of behaviour is over there and in trying to understand how they can get so bent out of shape when called out on it, I came across the following article. 20 years old and a fairly long read, but perhaps offers some insights into what feels a bit like pushing the proverbial up hill, if anyone feels like cheering themselves up.


https://scholarlypublications.universiteitleiden.nl/access/item:2888341/view

"...The word “corruption” implies deviation from a norm, a falling away from accepted standards. Hence, when certain types of illicit transactions become normal to the point that people do not bother to hide them, it is not satisfactory simply to label them as “corruption” or even “crime.” This is especially so when the people who run the state are themselves the main organizers of such activity. As we have seen, evidence from Nigeria and Kenya suggests that outrageously corrupt practices have become routine at the very heart of government in some of the continent’s most important countries...."


"...The problem is that the laws in Africa’s dysfunctional states are rarely enforced, or only very selectively. Worse, the authorities theoretically responsible for their implementation may themselves break these same laws continuously and routinely. This is really what Africa’s so-called failed states are—not so much places where the state has ceased to exist, but where the formal trappings of statehood serve purposes of strategic deception, rather like the stage-sets in a theater. In one of these countries, you would have to be naïve to believe that the law, the police, or the central bank really fulfills the role in theory allotted to it. The Democratic Republic of Congo, the Central African Republic, GuineaBissau, and dozens of other African states cannot be regarded as functioning according to international norms. But each one nevertheless has an actual, substantive system of politics and governance—not to be confused with the formal system, although the real and the legal are intertwined. Anyone who wants to live or do business in a failing state needs to learn the real rules. In each case, the actual conventions of economic, political, and even social life will certainly involve patterns of activity regarded by many international observers as corrupt. In broad swaths of Africa many types of corrupt practice are not the deviant behavior of a small minority—they are a standard mode of transacting political and financial business...."

 

[OmarsCominYo]

"....Some practices considered as corrupt occupy a
prominent place in such a schema, and corrupt
politicians are not above invoking an imagined
authenticity to excuse their behavior. According to
the Liberian writer Emmanuel Dolo, people who
have served as state officials are expected by their
own families to enrich themselves through corrup-
tion. Otherwise, he writes, they are accused of fail-
ing to do what he calls “the cultural thing”: to steal
money from the national treasury, an action they
may justify on cultural grounds...."

Sounds like someone we know

 

[Jongo]

From the 2:32 point of the translation.

"Congo was being asked for $10 billion, likely to settle for $5 billion after judgment in Washington."

5B USD is roughly 2.15 AUD per share, and I would be happy with that.

 

[OmarsCominYo]

".... It is true that every European colonial power did
indeed set up a centralized administration in each
colony and, to greater or lesser extent, incorporated
African rulers in systems of indirect rule. It is now
clear that in most cases this involved freezing many
of the dynamic processes of local government and,
also in many cases, permitted local rulers to dis-
pense with many of the more subtle checks and bal-
ances that had traditionally operated, producing
what the African scholar Mahmood Mamdani refers
to as “decentralized despotisms....”

Again highlights why some of these people (yes, looking at you Celestin Kibeya ) in local governance in the DRC might feel empowered to not only embezzle funds, but also feel able to flout the written laws with such impunity....to the great detriment of the country as a whole.

As tough as it might be to eradicate overnight, you'd expect the US will want assurances that the potential damage from this sort of behaviour be minimised, if they're going to pour billions of investment into the country. And part of the reason they clearly stated they won't be dealing with this lying cockroach/Cominiere, but with the centralised Government.

 

[Bonsoir]

".... It is true that every European colonial power did
indeed set up a centralized administration in each
colony and, to greater or lesser extent, incorporated
African rulers in systems of indirect rule. It is now
clear that in most cases this involved freezing many
of the dynamic processes of local government and,
also in many cases, permitted local rulers to dis-
pense with many of the more subtle checks and bal-
ances that had traditionally operated, producing
what the African scholar Mahmood Mamdani refers
to as “decentralized despotisms....”

Again highlights why some of these people (yes, looking at you Celestin Kibeya ) in local governance in the DRC might feel empowered to not only embezzle funds, but also feel able to flout the written laws with such impunity....to the great detriment of the country as a whole.

As tough as it might be to eradicate overnight, I expect the US will want the effects of this sort of behaviour minimised, if they're going to pour billions of investment into the country. And part of the reason they clearly stated they won't be dealing with this lying cockroach/Cominiere, but with the centralised Government.

I can’t work out how the population tolerate this, they should eradicate the scum responsible for their poverty.

 

[Skar]

From the 2:32 point of the translation.

"Congo was being asked for $10 billion, likely to settle for $5 billion after judgment in Washington."

5B USD is roughly 2.15 AUD per share, and I would be happy with that.

Would that settlement be tax free? I would be happy to sell my shares for $2.15, claim the CGT Discount, offset some losses and pay my fair amount of tax.... and in 5 years when the project is scaled up to 10-20Mtpa churning out 3Mtpa of sc6 I'll probably be kicking myself for not getting a royalty.

 

[OmarsCominYo]

I can’t work out how the population tolerate this, they should eradicate the scum responsible for their poverty.

Couldn't agree more and perhaps this opportunity for serious US involvement, followed by a rising tide of Western investment in their mineral wealth, will finally be the change the downtrodden people of the DRC deserve..