AVZ Discussion 2022

[RHyNO]

Non-compliance with an award from the International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes (ICSID) can have several consequences, primarily because such non-compliance directly contravenes the obligations that member states have agreed to under the ICSID Convention. While the Convention itself does not specify penalties for non-compliance, there are indirect repercussions and broader implications for a state that fails to honor an ICSID award. Here are some of the potential consequences:

1. Legal and Financial Consequences:
   • Interest on Unpaid Awards: Typically, ICSID awards include provisions for interest to accrue on any unpaid sums. Thus, the financial burden on the non-compliant state can increase over time as interest accrues on the outstanding amount.
   • Enforcement in Other Jurisdictions: The aggrieved party can seek enforcement of the award in any of the countries that are signatories to the ICSID Convention. This can lead to the seizure or freezing of state assets located in foreign jurisdictions, though this is subject to international laws concerning sovereign immunity.
2. Political and Diplomatic Repercussions:
   • Strain on International Relations: Non-compliance can strain the diplomatic relations between the non-compliant state and the home country of the aggrieved investor, potentially affecting bilateral trade, investment, and political cooperation.
   • Impact on International Standing: Persistent non-compliance or disregard for international arbitration awards can tarnish a state's reputation in the international community, potentially making other countries and international investors wary of engaging with it.
3. Economic and Investment Impact:
   • Reduced Foreign Investment: A reputation for non-compliance with international arbitration awards can deter foreign investors, who may see it as a sign of legal unpredictability and a high-risk environment. This could lead to a decrease in foreign direct investment (FDI), which can be crucial for economic development.
   • Credit Rating and Borrowing Costs: International financial markets and credit rating agencies might view non-compliance as indicative of a broader governance issue, potentially leading to a downgrade in credit ratings. This can increase the cost of borrowing for the country on international markets.
4. Legal Precedents and Future Disputes:
   • Influence on Future Cases: Non-compliance might influence the proceedings and rulings of future international disputes involving the state. Arbitrators in other forums might view the state’s non-compliance as a negative factor, potentially influencing dispute resolution outcomes unfavorably against the state.

While these are not direct "penalties" in the traditional sense of punitive measures imposed by a governing body, they are significant negative consequences that can affect multiple aspects of a nation's political, economic, and legal landscape. States typically weigh these potential repercussions carefully when deciding whether to comply with an ICSID award.

I am not an expert in this area - please do your own research.

Regards,

SilentOne.

Amazing thanks for the insight silent one. Greatly appreciated

 

[tonster66]

Except Jan who managed to sell all his shares before the halt…..

and Johnston, not all but some

 

[Miljew91]

Amazing thanks for the insight silent one. Greatly appreciated

I hope everyone knows this isn't the real Tommy from afr lol

 

[Winenut]

Haha what? Nigel’s been good actually and put up with a lot of shit especially when in country. Him and Ben definitely have my respect I’ve heard a few things.

Rest of them can probably move on they’ve got plenty of shares and will be rewarded if we are

Apart from some excellent skills they bring to the table the appointment of additional board members I believe was partly to limit the number of available board positions and help in a strategic way to keep those MMGA and Fat Tail cunts from getting a seat on AVZ for their grubby fucking corrupted arses....

Or something like that

 

[Cumquat Cap]

Interesting pieces having reread; Fat tail must put up security to continue to the value of expected payout should avz win - I’ll take Peter’s house thanks.

Locke had 2 x tranches one for lit funding and another for opex (less expensive) avz should be sweet until September before needing these at all.

Mentioned sale of asset/divestment for the first time.

Think we’re done with Cath/Catl which is a good thing in my mind but both parties playing possum and hence doubt we’ll get 20m from them.

I recon being delisted would make it easier to sell (unconfirmed) and judging by the agm results most shareholders would be stoked to vote yes should this occur.

 

[Doc]

Interesting pieces having reread; Fat tail must put up security to continue to the value of expected payout should avz win - I’ll take Peter’s house thanks.

Locke had 2 x tranches one for lit funding and another for opex (less expensive) avz should be sweet until September before needing these at all.

Mentioned sale of asset/divestment for the first time.

Think we’re done with Cath/Catl which is a good thing in my mind but both parties playing possum and hence doubt we’ll get 20m from them.

I recon being delisted would make it easier to sell (unconfirmed) and judging by the agm results most shareholders would be stoked to vote yes should this occur.

As long as we dont have to pay 20m to Cath then kick the back stabbing bastards out the door.

 

[Cumquat Cap]

Think we’ll dicktease Cath along to avoid that happening with no real intention for us to mine unless something drastic happens. Great result as we’re not having to give them 24% for next to nothing.

They are all the same and beholden to Chinese government so fuck them

 

[Cumquat Cap]

Shorters on the other channel all freaking out, underlying comments and posting links.

Avz has enough money to continue these court cases which they will win and make very very uncomfortable for the DRC government. Cominiere told superiors we would go bankrupt and slip away which is not going to happen.

Read a few articles recently about large groups looking for lithium investments in Africa and have billions up their sleeve, draw your own conclusions.

Sucks for people needing cash soon but if reach out to shorters who are desperate to buy shares and close positions.

People are also suggesting we give Dathomir back 15% for $20M despite our court case being a slam dunk against them clearly, an absolute joke and very short sighted.

I’m not concerned at all re delisting despite it being disapointing from an optics perspective

 

[Doc]

Shorters on the other channel all freaking out, underlying comments and posting links.

Avz has enough money to continue these court cases which they will win and make very very uncomfortable for the DRC government. Cominiere told superiors we would go bankrupt and slip away which is not going to happen.

Read a few articles recently about large groups looking for lithium investments in Africa and have billions up their sleeve, draw your own conclusions.

Sucks for people needing cash soon but if reach out to shorters who are desperate to buy shares and close positions.

People are also suggesting we give Dathomir back 15% for $20M despite our court case being a slam dunk against them clearly, an absolute joke and very short sighted.

I’m not concerned at all re delisting despite it being disapointing from an optics perspective

We are already owed close to $1m in court costs granted to us. We keep winning that sum will sky rocket. Making DRC/zijin/Comieniere pay up is another matter. I believe we are still owed money from last June/July court case.

 

[SilentOne]

We are already owed close to $1m in court costs granted to us. We keep winning that sum will sky rocket. Making DRC/zijin/Comieniere pay up is another matter. I believe we are still owed money from last June/July court case.

Hi Doc,

In response to your statement.

Non-compliance with an award from the International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes (ICSID) can have several consequences, primarily because such non-compliance directly contravenes the obligations that member states have agreed to under the ICSID Convention. While the Convention itself does not specify penalties for non-compliance, there are indirect repercussions and broader implications for a state that fails to honor an ICSID award. Here are some of the potential consequences:

1. Legal and Financial Consequences:
   • Interest on Unpaid Awards: Typically, ICSID awards include provisions for interest to accrue on any unpaid sums. Thus, the financial burden on the non-compliant state can increase over time as interest accrues on the outstanding amount.
   • Enforcement in Other Jurisdictions: The aggrieved party can seek enforcement of the award in any of the countries that are signatories to the ICSID Convention. This can lead to the seizure or freezing of state assets located in foreign jurisdictions, though this is subject to international laws concerning sovereign immunity.
2. Political and Diplomatic Repercussions:
   • Strain on International Relations: Non-compliance can strain the diplomatic relations between the non-compliant state and the home country of the aggrieved investor, potentially affecting bilateral trade, investment, and political cooperation.
   • Impact on International Standing: Persistent non-compliance or disregard for international arbitration awards can tarnish a state's reputation in the international community, potentially making other countries and international investors wary of engaging with it.
3. Economic and Investment Impact:
   • Reduced Foreign Investment: A reputation for non-compliance with international arbitration awards can deter foreign investors, who may see it as a sign of legal unpredictability and a high-risk environment. This could lead to a decrease in foreign direct investment (FDI), which can be crucial for economic development.
   • Credit Rating and Borrowing Costs: International financial markets and credit rating agencies might view non-compliance as indicative of a broader governance issue, potentially leading to a downgrade in credit ratings. This can increase the cost of borrowing for the country on international markets.
4. Legal Precedents and Future Disputes:
   • Influence on Future Cases: Non-compliance might influence the proceedings and rulings of future international disputes involving the state. Arbitrators in other forums might view the state’s non-compliance as a negative factor, potentially influencing dispute resolution outcomes unfavorably against the state.

While these are not direct "penalties" in the traditional sense of punitive measures imposed by a governing body, they are significant negative consequences that can affect multiple aspects of a nation's political, economic, and legal landscape. States typically weigh these potential repercussions carefully when deciding whether to comply with an ICSID award.

I am not an expert in this area - please do your own research.

Regards,

SilentOne.

 

[RHyNO]

I hope everyone knows this isn't the real Tommy from afr lol

Yeah I am definitely not that bottom feeder!

 

[No_idea]

So, looking down the barrel of a potential sale of the asset, what's it actually worth now?

 

[JAG]

So, looking down the barrel of a potential sale of the asset, what's it actually worth now?

No idea

 

[Cumquat Cap]

Whatever another party is willing to pay

 

[SilentOne]

Whatever another party is willing to pay

Lets hope for a biding war.

The life of the mine and being likely to be able to influence the spot market should support a healthy premium.

Regards,

SilentOne.

 

[BRICK]

No idea

$12

 

[Rediah]

I wanted to stay in exile.... but I think all is not lost IF this end up in ICC. (IMO)

In the past similar thing happened between Australian TCC:ASX and Pakistan where Pakistan couldn't honor the contract because of their internal politics (or whatever their reasons were). Case was taken in the High Court of British Virgin Island resulted in TCC's favor. “.... TCC then approached the World Bank’s International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes (ICSID) to resolve the dispute,”

And TCC won $5.9 Billion (they sued for $8.5 Billion, some says $16 Billion) . But since Pakistan was/is still struggling with their poor economy, they couldn't pay the money therefore Pakistan foreign assets were frozen including the Roosevelt Hotel, New York owned by the national airlines of Pakistan, PIA.

Eventually Pakistan agreed and negotiated , see below

View attachment 29208
So, from that precedent, we can only assume that even if DRC cant pay in cash, then they have to pay AVZ in assets/resources, again its my own assessment from the past cases.


More below on TCC vs Pak

Reko Diq case - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

***** Had Pakistan not cancelled the contract with TCC, Pakistan and its people would have been in much better situation, currently Pakistan is on the verge of default with only $4 Billion in their reserves.

This is what i think based on the only case I followed of ICSID.


Pakistan is as corrupt as DRC if not more.. But in DRC case, they are more underdeveloped and hence not as economically strong. The longer these minerals stays underground, the more wait DRC have to do to put their filthy hands on the money from it, so I am sure they would want to expedite this as well even if it means China foot the bill at the end. For DRC, it doesnt matter who owns/mines Manono, at the end of the day all they care is their pockets are filled and are not worried about their international reputation as, either you take it or leave it, as there are already many buyers out there even if it means selling it dirt cheap or at the expense of their people's lives.

Does the ICC/ICSID process works? Yes
Does it take time? Yes... unfortunately it took bit of time in Reko Diq case, even after the first ruling it took 3-4years for money started coming to SHs but it was good money.

Will it get enforced? Yes
Did Pakistan pay? Yes, started paying in 2022 with first payment of $900m, then $2B, and still paying dearly to this day..

And now even Saudi investing in Reko Diq!

At this stage, not sure what more us SH can do other than wait and trust the BoD and let it take its course and stay put. Its not easy, but we have no other option. ( I hope its Prayer emoji and not high five)

 

[Remark]

It didn't take long for this tool to rub his chinese funded hands together with glee...


https://twitter.com/tommyr345/status/1785512081124741459?t=Yhm-V7PZT0kG2YFa5culBg&s=19

 

[TheCount]

Old mate up to his old tricks again..........

 

[SilentOne]

Old mate up to his old tricks again..........

View attachment 61950

I havent lost sleep over AVZ delisting. I think the BOD have been very stretegic about the delisting.

I will sleep soundly tonight.

Ohhh I wonder how the Shorters are sleeping (not really).

Do your own research.

Regards,

SilentOne