Why would we be fucked? The ICC hearing is for 15% . It's not part of the 75% we have legal title for . I am not concerned by this . Don't know why people are .What is important is that it gets sorted out one way or another so we can move on . My concern like some have pointed out is that Zijin keep pushing the date back until after the election
AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
- Start date
According to Jus Mundi, AVZ vs Dathmir (I) case has a single arbiter, Caroline Duclercq who has been an arbitrator in at least five (5) international cases. Four of these are pending, and zero International Center for Settlement of Investor Disputes (ICSID) are pending annulment (whatever that means).
She was appointed by the respondent, which I presume is Dathmir.
Cheers
F
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Azzler
Top 20
I'd like to remind everyone that it was stated by NF at the AGM, as well as specificaly stated in an official announcement, that the granting of the mining licence does not depend on the outcome of the ownership disputes.
Many voices are saying this ICC case in July must be resolved before the licence can be granted.
Of course, maybe those statements were misleading, or the situation has changed since then, or TIA!
Rumblings of a new arrangement were underway, with some big financiers, and we just needed to be patient.
I like to imagine the DRC Government are well aware of how decieteful and criminal and impossible to work with Cominiere are, and well aware it is because of their shitful actions that the project is held up and in such a mess. They should be in jail.
It's possible negociations are indeed underway with AVZ to advance the project, that Cominiere have indeed been left outside, and this is why we see a damages case against AVZ. I don't know why no one else seems to be entertaining this idea.
AVZ have suprised us in the past, the CATH funding and offtake agreements came out of nowhere, with no whispers beforehand. They can keep secrets if they want to.
I know it's hard to dream with so much blatant corruption going on, again I'm just thinking out loud, and I obviously don't know shit.
Peace...
Many voices are saying this ICC case in July must be resolved before the licence can be granted.
Of course, maybe those statements were misleading, or the situation has changed since then, or TIA!
Rumblings of a new arrangement were underway, with some big financiers, and we just needed to be patient.
I like to imagine the DRC Government are well aware of how decieteful and criminal and impossible to work with Cominiere are, and well aware it is because of their shitful actions that the project is held up and in such a mess. They should be in jail.
It's possible negociations are indeed underway with AVZ to advance the project, that Cominiere have indeed been left outside, and this is why we see a damages case against AVZ. I don't know why no one else seems to be entertaining this idea.
AVZ have suprised us in the past, the CATH funding and offtake agreements came out of nowhere, with no whispers beforehand. They can keep secrets if they want to.
I know it's hard to dream with so much blatant corruption going on, again I'm just thinking out loud, and I obviously don't know shit.
Peace...
Seems Mr Pei is doing someting right now.
Tianhua New Energy (300390.SZ) plans to acquire 60% of the shares of Suzhou Tianhua Times New Energy Industry Investment Co., Ltd.
Accordingto the Zhitong Finance App, Tianhua New Energy (300390.SZ) announced that the company and Suzhou Tianhua Energy Industry Development Co., Ltd. signed an “Intent Agreement on the Acquisition of 60% of the Shares of Suzhou Tianhua Times New Energy Industry Investment Co., Ltd.” and...news.futunn.com
According to the Zhitong Finance App, Tianhua New Energy (300390.SZ) announced that the company and Suzhou Tianhua Energy Industry Development Co., Ltd. signed an “Intent Agreement on the Acquisition of 60% of the Shares of Suzhou Tianhua Times New Energy Industry Investment Co., Ltd.” and reached a preliminary agreement to acquire 60% of the shares of Suzhou Tianhua Times New Energy Industry Investment Co., Ltd.
According to reports, Suzhou Tianhua Times New Energy Industry Investment Co., Ltd. is mainly engaged in equity investment business in the new energy sector. Currently, it holds shares in Australian listed companies AVZ Minerals Ltd and Lithium Plus Minerals Ltd. AVZ Minerals Ltd and Lithium Plus Minerals Ltd are mainly engaged in exploration and mining of lithium ore and other mineral deposits.
Tianhua New Energy (300390.SZ) is Mr Pei's Listed company in China,
Suzhou Tianhua Energy Industry Development Co., Ltd.(all shares hold by Pei's family) - Hold 75% shares of CATH
Now his listed company agreed to buy 60% shares of his private company, interesting move at this sensitive time.
He might know some good news is coming to boost his list company's share price?
Attachments
Mr Inappropriate
Regular
There is reasonable logic in the suggestion, but there have been too many false dawns for people to get excitied by such whispers. I think it's just self-preservation.I'd like to remind everyone that it was stated by NF at the AGM, as well as specificaly stated in an official announcement, that the granting of the mining licence does not depend on the outcome of the ownership disputes.
Many voices are saying this ICC case in July must be resolved before the licence can be granted.
Of course, maybe those statements were misleading, or the situation has changed since then, or TIA!
Rumblings of a new arrangement were underway, with some big financiers, and we just needed to be patient.
I like to imagine the DRC Government are well aware of how decieteful and criminal and impossible to work with Cominiere are, and well aware it is because of their shitful actions that the project is held up and in such a mess. They should be in jail.
It's possible negociations are indeed underway with AVZ to advance the project, that Cominiere have indeed been left outside, and this is why we see a damages case against AVZ. I don't know why no one else seems to be entertaining this idea.
AVZ have suprised us in the past, the CATH funding and offtake agreements came out of nowhere, with no whispers beforehand. They can keep secrets if they want to.
I know it's hard to dream with so much blatant corruption going on, again I'm just thinking out loud, and I obviously don't know shit.
Peace...
I'd like to remind everyone that it was stated by NF at the AGM, as well as specificaly stated in an official announcement, that the granting of the mining licence does not depend on the outcome of the ownership disputes.
Many voices are saying this ICC case in July must be resolved before the licence can be granted.
Of course, maybe those statements were misleading, or the situation has changed since then, or TIA!
Rumblings of a new arrangement were underway, with some big financiers, and we just needed to be patient.
I like to imagine the DRC Government are well aware of how decieteful and criminal and impossible to work with Cominiere are, and well aware it is because of their shitful actions that the project is held up and in such a mess. They should be in jail.
It's possible negociations are indeed underway with AVZ to advance the project, that Cominiere have indeed been left outside, and this is why we see a damages case against AVZ. I don't know why no one else seems to be entertaining this idea.
AVZ have suprised us in the past, the CATH funding and offtake agreements came out of nowhere, with no whispers beforehand. They can keep secrets if they want to.
I know it's hard to dream with so much blatant corruption going on, again I'm just thinking out loud, and I obviously don't know shit.
Peace...
I disagree with NF. Maybe nothing to do with AVZ ownership disputes, but the MMCS dispute certainly will be. Cominiere needs to have 10% to give to the DRC government, and 5% of that is subject to the ICC decision we are waiting on.
Just a couple of observations:
1. Earlier this week the thread was overwhelmingly negative (imo), now it's getting it's positivity / realism back.
This is partly a reflection of how we influence each other and contribute to each other's confirmation bias - even if it regularly changes.
This is what trolls play on.
2. On the subject of trolls, I am still suspicious, to varying degrees, of three ( possibly four) posters here.
I am not gonna name them, but would appreciate any PMs with suspicions or evidence.
Fingers X I'm overthinking it and it's just the normal AVZ paranoia.
Hopefully, then ZB is up for another conversation.
Please understand that I may well not respond as I suspect that one of the previous PM replies was disingenuous.
Don't wanna be the thread cop, but these c*nts almost derailed this thread a few weeks ago and I don't wanna go there again.
As a football commentator in England once said:
"Get your retaliation in first".
US$12
Mr Stasi to you
1. Earlier this week the thread was overwhelmingly negative (imo), now it's getting it's positivity / realism back.
This is partly a reflection of how we influence each other and contribute to each other's confirmation bias - even if it regularly changes.
This is what trolls play on.
2. On the subject of trolls, I am still suspicious, to varying degrees, of three ( possibly four) posters here.
I am not gonna name them, but would appreciate any PMs with suspicions or evidence.
Fingers X I'm overthinking it and it's just the normal AVZ paranoia.
Hopefully, then ZB is up for another conversation.
Please understand that I may well not respond as I suspect that one of the previous PM replies was disingenuous.
Don't wanna be the thread cop, but these c*nts almost derailed this thread a few weeks ago and I don't wanna go there again.
As a football commentator in England once said:
"Get your retaliation in first".
US$12
Mr Stasi to you
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I understand the International Center for Settlement of Investor Disputes (ICSID) is sponsored by the World bank, and is not the same as the International Court of Arbitration of the International Chamber of Commerce (ICC) that will arbitrate on AVZ's issues. The DRC govt is a signatory to the ICSID, which binds the country to any judgements, agreements or settlements handed down by the ICC.Are the 4 cases pending because she keeps rescheduling?
My head hurts.
Cheers
F
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bloke383
Regular
To anyone concerned that the delayed ICC case due to a conflict of schedule may be the result of Zijin & brown paper bags , why wouldn't Zijin just pay enough to make sure a decision is awarded in their favour ? Has there previously been cases where bribery has influenced , or thought to have influenced decisions at the ICC ? Maybe I'm just too naive but I'm confident there will be no brown paper bags swaying any decisions in our cases at the ICC .
Carlos Danger
Top 20
Yeah I had this exact same thought while reading the concerns here. While it would be naive to think that the ICC is squeaky clean from corruption it would be in Zijin's best interest to put up the W and put pressure back on AVZ in the eyes of the DRC government if the arbitrator was taking snacks rather than delay a few months. This jurisdictional challenge is pivotal in the ownership 'dispute' and will be sorted well before AVZ is anywhere near running out of money imo
Who knows what CCP has told him to do?
He is trying to consolidate and increase his interest in AVZ. The question would be why?
Attachments
Now back to what mouseflying wrote:
Now his listed company agreed to buy 60% shares of his private company, interesting move at this sensitive time.
He might know some good news is coming to boost his list company's share price?
Frank
Top 20
The Chinese puzzle of mining contracts in the DRC
President Félix Tshisekedi's trip to Beijing has strengthened economic and diplomatic relations between the two countries.
But for the renegotiation and the possible rebalancing of the "contract of the century" of 2007, largely unfavorable in the DRC, we will still have to wait.
For 4 days, the Democratic Republic of Congo had its eyes riveted on the Middle Kingdom.
The first visit of a Congolese president to China since 1972 has sparked renewed interest in the Asian superpower, Congo's first economic partner, mining activities oblige.
Félix Tshisekedi's state visit was eagerly awaited on a major issue: that of the mining contract signed in 2007 by Kinshasa and a group of Chinese companies.
A contract deemed unbalanced for the Congolese side, which President Tshisekedi has announced that he wants to renegotiate with Beijing.
The famous "contract of the century", negotiated under Joseph Kabila, gave birth to Sicomines, a company 68% owned by Chinese partners to supply itself with copper and cobalt in exchange for the construction of infrastructure in Congo (roads, hospitals, railway lines, etc.).
Regaining control of Sicomines
15 years later, the accounts are still not there.
Of the 3 billion dollars of infrastructure that China was to build, only 822 million dollars have been disbursed, while Beijing has collected more than 11 billion dollars thanks to minerals extracted from Congolese soil.
Since taking office, Felix Tshisekedi has repeatedly announced that he wants to rebalance the contract with China.
Kinshasa hinted, before the departure of the Head of State for Beijing, to want to reverse the percentage of shares held by the Congolese State in Sicomines, via its company Gécamines.
Instead of the current 32%, Kinshasa wants to want to hold 70% of Sicomines.
The DRC is also asking to double the investment in infrastructure from 3 to 6 billion dollars, and is asking for a “lump sum indemnity” of 2 billion dollars as “compensation”.
No renegotiation in Beijing
Renegotiating, revisiting or rebalancing the "contract of the century" were the objectives displayed by Kinshasa before Félix Tshisekedi's visit to Beijing.
The expectation was great on the Congolese side... maybe a little too much.
On arrival, the final press release published at the end of the visit leaves the Congolese a little on their hunger.
No mention, or even allusion, is made of the famous “minerals for infrastructure” contract of 2007.
Several memoranda have been signed between the DRC and China, but none clearly specifies a rebalancing of the mining contract.
The final text remains very general.
It stipulates that "China will encourage more companies to invest and establish themselves in the DRC and to participate in the construction of infrastructures in accordance with the programs enacted and presented by the Congolese party to contribute to economic diversification and industrialization of the country.
An agreement at the end of 2023?
A Congolese government source indicates that the 2007 mining agreement was not mentioned during the meeting between Félix Tshisekedi and his counterpart Xi Jinping, but the final document nevertheless speaks of an "upgrading of the bilateral relationship between the two countries, which greatly satisfied the Congolese delegation.
For Kinshasa, the meeting between the two Heads of State paves the way for the establishment of a discussion framework for the mixed commission (Congolese State-Chinese companies) to renegotiate the "contract of the century", so that the DRC can "regain his rights".
The Congolese delegation has hinted that an agreement could be reached by the end of 2023.
A timing that would be timely for Félix Tshisekedi who is a candidate for re-election next December.
Beijing can let go
The other memoranda signed between Beijing and Kinshasa on better cooperation between the two state televisions, or China's support for peace talks for eastern Congo, do not hide a certain disappointment with Félix Tshisekedi's visit to Beijing.
Perhaps Kinshasa had overstated its intentions of wanting to overturn the table, renegotiate the contract and reverse the balance of power.
The problem is that Kinshasa does not weigh very heavily against its Chinese partner.
Felix Tshisekedi, like his predecessor Joseph Kabila, is walking on eggshells with Beijing.
The Congolese State and its Lilliputian budget of around ten billion dollars needs China, its first trading partner with its 21.7 billion dollars, imports and exports combined.
Difficult to dictate conditions when the balance of power is so unbalanced.
In this little game, Felix Tshisekedi knows that he will not be able to impose a deal in which Beijing is not a winner.
But the Chinese have understood that they can also let go of a little ballast and give tokens of goodwill to a president who is seeking a second term and who needs to display some successes in the economy.
In Beijing, Felix Tshisekedi played the card of stability and continuity.
An argument that always hits the mark in Beijing.
mediacongo
Food for thought
Frank
President Félix Tshisekedi's trip to Beijing has strengthened economic and diplomatic relations between the two countries.
But for the renegotiation and the possible rebalancing of the "contract of the century" of 2007, largely unfavorable in the DRC, we will still have to wait.
For 4 days, the Democratic Republic of Congo had its eyes riveted on the Middle Kingdom.
The first visit of a Congolese president to China since 1972 has sparked renewed interest in the Asian superpower, Congo's first economic partner, mining activities oblige.
Félix Tshisekedi's state visit was eagerly awaited on a major issue: that of the mining contract signed in 2007 by Kinshasa and a group of Chinese companies.
A contract deemed unbalanced for the Congolese side, which President Tshisekedi has announced that he wants to renegotiate with Beijing.
The famous "contract of the century", negotiated under Joseph Kabila, gave birth to Sicomines, a company 68% owned by Chinese partners to supply itself with copper and cobalt in exchange for the construction of infrastructure in Congo (roads, hospitals, railway lines, etc.).
Regaining control of Sicomines
15 years later, the accounts are still not there.
Of the 3 billion dollars of infrastructure that China was to build, only 822 million dollars have been disbursed, while Beijing has collected more than 11 billion dollars thanks to minerals extracted from Congolese soil.
Since taking office, Felix Tshisekedi has repeatedly announced that he wants to rebalance the contract with China.
Kinshasa hinted, before the departure of the Head of State for Beijing, to want to reverse the percentage of shares held by the Congolese State in Sicomines, via its company Gécamines.
Instead of the current 32%, Kinshasa wants to want to hold 70% of Sicomines.
The DRC is also asking to double the investment in infrastructure from 3 to 6 billion dollars, and is asking for a “lump sum indemnity” of 2 billion dollars as “compensation”.
No renegotiation in Beijing
Renegotiating, revisiting or rebalancing the "contract of the century" were the objectives displayed by Kinshasa before Félix Tshisekedi's visit to Beijing.
The expectation was great on the Congolese side... maybe a little too much.
On arrival, the final press release published at the end of the visit leaves the Congolese a little on their hunger.
No mention, or even allusion, is made of the famous “minerals for infrastructure” contract of 2007.
Several memoranda have been signed between the DRC and China, but none clearly specifies a rebalancing of the mining contract.
The final text remains very general.
It stipulates that "China will encourage more companies to invest and establish themselves in the DRC and to participate in the construction of infrastructures in accordance with the programs enacted and presented by the Congolese party to contribute to economic diversification and industrialization of the country.
An agreement at the end of 2023?
A Congolese government source indicates that the 2007 mining agreement was not mentioned during the meeting between Félix Tshisekedi and his counterpart Xi Jinping, but the final document nevertheless speaks of an "upgrading of the bilateral relationship between the two countries, which greatly satisfied the Congolese delegation.
For Kinshasa, the meeting between the two Heads of State paves the way for the establishment of a discussion framework for the mixed commission (Congolese State-Chinese companies) to renegotiate the "contract of the century", so that the DRC can "regain his rights".
The Congolese delegation has hinted that an agreement could be reached by the end of 2023.
A timing that would be timely for Félix Tshisekedi who is a candidate for re-election next December.
Beijing can let go
The other memoranda signed between Beijing and Kinshasa on better cooperation between the two state televisions, or China's support for peace talks for eastern Congo, do not hide a certain disappointment with Félix Tshisekedi's visit to Beijing.
Perhaps Kinshasa had overstated its intentions of wanting to overturn the table, renegotiate the contract and reverse the balance of power.
The problem is that Kinshasa does not weigh very heavily against its Chinese partner.
Felix Tshisekedi, like his predecessor Joseph Kabila, is walking on eggshells with Beijing.
The Congolese State and its Lilliputian budget of around ten billion dollars needs China, its first trading partner with its 21.7 billion dollars, imports and exports combined.
Difficult to dictate conditions when the balance of power is so unbalanced.
In this little game, Felix Tshisekedi knows that he will not be able to impose a deal in which Beijing is not a winner.
But the Chinese have understood that they can also let go of a little ballast and give tokens of goodwill to a president who is seeking a second term and who needs to display some successes in the economy.
In Beijing, Felix Tshisekedi played the card of stability and continuity.
An argument that always hits the mark in Beijing.
mediacongo
Food for thought
Frank
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mouseflying
Regular
From my understanding, it is always good to put valuable assets in listed company.
If keep it in private company:
He need to wait for manono goes to production, then make some money by sell lithium few years later.
and he need to use his own cash to finance the project
If keep it in listed company:
Once good news comes out, share price goes up, his net wealth will skyrocketed, and he can sell some shares to make some money.
and he can financing the project use other investor's money rather than use his own money.
Of course, all IMO
mouseflying
Regular
As you said, it’s potentially just an unrelated restructure of his finances
I hope I’m right as well.
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