AVZ Discussion 2022

[Winenut]

Throughout all the suspension and ongoing issues CATH/CATL have been conspicuously silent

They haven't really said much at all

One significant action was waiving a few conditions in the TIA which is currently extended to 30 June 2023

Probably no surprise they haven't said much I suspect they are simply waiting for the events to play out

Potentially if all goes well they can pick up 24% of the project for $240M.....a price at which I think they would be very comfortable

We got the message from AVZ (I think at the RS) that Mr Pei/CATH would consider a lower % of ownership of the project and still contribute $240M to funding because the most critical factor for them was the securing of "supply"

That was probably one of the more interesting views linked to CATH but I don't think they've ever said it publicly......that possibility was relayed by AVZ

 

[ptlas]

Suspect CATH/CATL is the fall back position for CCP, ie only use them when/if Z etc are out of the game.

ptlas - Can you explain your thinking here? Do you think CATH/CAT|L will start to undermine AVZ? Cheers

Personally, I find it difficult to believe that A chinese company is not at least inflenced or partly controlled by CCP.

Particularly, when one considers what is at stake here. Possibly, only possibly, it is a PRC attempt to gain some lithium and be in control of the mine build irrespective of whether Z etc obtain any share of Manono.

Whether CATH entered the off-take agreement with good intent (and I have no idea or opinion either way), when push comes to shove they will do what they are told.
ATM they guarantee Chinese receive some supply of lithium. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it was 24% at a cheap price

I emphasise that this is the Chinese fallback position they want Z to fuck over AVZ.

Hope that is clear, partner really sick so it's a bit rushed.

 

[IndependenceDay]

Personally, I find it difficult to believe that A chinese company is not at least inflenced or partly controlled by CCP.

Particularly, when one considers what is at stake here. Possibly, only possibly, it is a PRC attempt to gain some lithium and be in control of the mine build irrespective of whether Z etc obtain any share of Manono.

Whether CATH entered the off-take agreement with good intent (and I have no idea or opinion either way), when push comes to shove they will do what they are told.
ATM they guarantee Chinese receive some supply of lithium. Corrrrect me if I'm wrong but I think it was 24% ata cheap price

I emphasise that this is the Chinese fallback position they want Z to fuck over AVZ.

Hope that is clear, partner really sick so it's a bit rushed.

 

[IndependenceDay]

Hi ptlas, just a quick one to say thanks for all of your posts, I really enjoy your insights, effort and humour.
Hope that your partner turns the corner and gets better soon.
YNWA.

 

[Onthefm]

Suspect CATH/CATL is the fall back position for CCP, ie only use them when/if Z etc are out of the game



Not really sure who is banned as there are that many missing posts that the thread is hard to follow.
The posts of the two principal culprits are still available.

Seen more trolls this week than a Norwegian potholer would see in a lifetime.

BTW In my post that was moderated yesterday, you quoted two thirds of it back at me - so either you are selectivly using the post or it was altered by third party before you saw it.

If you had read it in it's entirety, you would understand it was a joke aimed at nobody in particular.

I don't know which, beacause as we discussed, moderated posts are not available to the writer to work out what their sins were.

I have posted this publicly, as you closed the discussion immediately after moderation.

BTW your message informing me of the moderation has since been removed.

What the hell is going on?

A.I. = Artificial Ignorance

I wouldn't trust cath one bit he is also run by ccp imo. Remember a bloke called Jack ma thought he could say what he honestly thought. Bad move haven't seen nor heard from him I a while and when we do it will be all praise for the ccp.

 

[Rediah]

I wouldn't trust cath one bit he is also run by ccp imo. Remember a bloke called Jack ma thought he could say what he honestly thought. Bad move haven't seen nor heard from him I a while and when we do it will be all praise for the ccp.

Jack Ma

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/jack-ma-takes-up-visiting-professor-post-in-japan/news-story/114d02e4478bb92fc722c91090917037

 

[Carlos Danger]

I wouldn't trust cath one bit he is also run by ccp imo. Remember a bloke called Jack ma thought he could say what he honestly thought. Bad move haven't seen nor heard from him I a while and when we do it will be all praise for the ccp.

Jack Ma

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/jack-ma-takes-up-visiting-professor-post-in-japan/news-story/114d02e4478bb92fc722c91090917037

View attachment 37019

Jack spent some time in Room 101 lmao

 

[Xerof]

I wouldn't trust cath one bit he is also run by ccp imo. Remember a bloke called Jack ma thought he could say what he honestly thought. Bad move haven't seen nor heard from him I a while and when we do it will be all praise for the ccp.

A couple of things I have read about CATH/CATL recently, and not so recently, which rang my bells:

• Recently, Xi Ping commented that he had some concern at how quickly CATL was expanding its operations globally. Read as perhaps Z should do this one?
• Not so recently, I read a paper put to a meeting that CATH board held to explain/approve the 24% deal, in which the line that stood out for me was that they had not only secured and re-assigned the Yibin off take, but had increased substantially the amount of off take, AND for over the life of the mine, AND at a 'better' price. This was before the ML fiasco, so I didn't think too much of it, and can't bloody well find it again now. At the time everything was rosy, and thunderbirds were go.
• This second point has never been announced by AVZ, so I'm wondering if it's actually true and been formalised. It could just be their way of getting the deal approved at the local level in China, i have no idea

Anyway, another way to look at all this CATH shit, is to assume AVZ are the ones stalling. I can't rule that out, despite AVZ's calming words to the contrary, especially given CATH waived all the CP's, INCLUDING the necessity for the ML. When the final split was being contested, no way would AVZ want to settle 24%

IMO

 

[Carlos Danger]

Anyway, another way to look at all this CATH shit, is to assume AVZ are the ones stalling. I can't rule that out, despite AVZ's calming words to the contrary, especially given CATH waived all the CP's, INCLUDING the necessity for the ML. When the final split was being contested, no way would AVZ want to settle 24%

AVZ can't sell to CATH while Cominiere are still in Dathcom because they would have pre-emption on the 24% (or 9%). This is also why management can't accept Zijin under any circumstances as they would then have the pre-emption on the CATH deal as their purchase would be considered to have been completed first. That's why the TIA completion keeps getting pushed back imo

 

[cruiser51]

"allowed to happen" is not really fair, I think. All reported posts are reviewed. The thing is, on a forum where debate is not only allowed, but encouraged, it is not always a simple thing for myself to referee a debate I know nothing at all about (I don't follow the AVZ stock). Further, the public forums are a matter of public record and it is actually illegal for me to interject on a basis of picking a 'side' as the regulations clearly imply that would likely be seen some kind of endorsement on my part. And I am not financially licensed to offer such endorsements, whether I mean to or not. Instead, I must have strict rules and require the community to vote for those who break them. I think what you expect from me is an active referee with participant level of understanding or opinion. But I cannot offer that. Instead, I have implemented a level of community moderation of sorts, backed with an AI and automated on restrictive controls and banning, which both lead to permanency.

However I must stress, that this forum offers more than just a forum where you must respond to someone you consider a troll. For example, you can setup private "groups" via the messaging system where you get to choose your audience by inviting them to the conversation...

Finally, if you believe the person has other accounts - do send me a message. I did check for matching accounts but nothing came up. However, I can compare other things if you point me in that direct. Please message me, though, as I don't really enjoy taking over threads with moderation topics.

'Allowed to happen' is a very simple observation.
It did happen and it did happen, because it was not stopped in its tracks.
Therefore saying it was allowed to happen is not an unfair statement, but a fact.

You asked me names and evidence...
I told you in my DM one name.
I did not expect and did not get a response, or reaction on that message.
In my eyes it was a waste of my time even writing it.

You as the owner do have the evidence, we as posters do not have access to.

You as the owner of this platform are now reacting, due to the multitude of complaints, not because I as a single poster complained.

You must be aware that if you do not address this issue, the only way the poster can address this issue is by voting with their feet.

I do appreciate that you wish to remain impartial, however after posting on this forum since the early days and enjoying that, suddenly being told by your bot that I run the chance to get permanently banned, after an influx of some newbies, who are constantly hitting the report button and trying to change how and what we post.
I ask myself what the hell is happening here.

If people arrive on this forum and they don't like what they see, they are free to leave, there is nobody who tells them 'Please stay, we need you'.
Because at the end of the day we need idiots like that like hole in the head.

The forum was a great place until we recently were overrun by these clowns, who believe they should change the world.

As you notice, I am disappointed and pissed off.
I do not wish to be disruptive, but if this is going to be the new TSE, I have better things to do.

 

[Samus]

@Sammael who is the riddler and what is one of their riddles you mention?

, is the riddle at issue, the AVZ RCCM’s Dathcom file tweeted on April 30 2022 that you appeared to have ignored?

 

[Xerof]

AVZ can't sell to CATH while Cominiere are still in Dathcom because they would have pre-emption on the 24% (or 9%). This is also why management can't accept Zijin under any circumstances as they would then have the pre-emption on the CATH deal as their purchase would be considered to have been completed first. That's why the TIA completion keeps getting pushed back imo

Ah, yes, excellent points. Shit, even Celestine mentioned that.

 

[Dazmac66]

Thanks for responses above. No matter what happens it is a win/win for CATH.

 

[Winenut]

AVZ can't sell to CATH while Cominiere are still in Dathcom because they would have pre-emption on the 24% (or 9%). This is also why management can't accept Zijin under any circumstances as they would then have the pre-emption on the CATH deal as their purchase would be considered to have been completed first. That's why the TIA completion keeps getting pushed back imo

I get it.

So if Z are in the JV "before" any sale to CATH then as a JV member Z would have a ROFR on the sale of the 24% to CATH

Geezuz!

Which Z could then use to aquire potentially a further 24% of the project in addition to the 15% they "believe" they alreay have

No way AVZ can let that happen

So the timeline of transactions HAS to be played out carefully and in the correct order to ensure the "right" outcome

It's a serious game of chess.....hope the BoD studied Bobby Fischer

 

[Pokok]

I get it.

So if Z are in the JV "before" any sale to CATH then as a JV member Z would have a ROFR on the sale of the 24% to CATH

Geezuz!

Which Z could then use to aquire potentially a further 24% of the project in addition to the 15% they "believe" they alreay have

No way AVZ can let that happen

So the timeline of transactions HAS to be played out carefully and in the correct order to ensure the "right" outcome

It's a serious game of chess.....hope the BoD studied Bobby Fischer

serious yes , I think my tip a bit late but lets see LLL or PPK

 

[zeeb0t]

'Allowed to happen' is a very simple observation.
It did happen and it did happen, because it was not stopped in its tracks.
Therefore saying it was allowed to happen is not an unfair statement, but a fact.

You asked me names and evidence...
I told you in my DM one name.
I did not expect and did not get a response, or reaction on that message.
In my eyes it was a waste of my time even writing it.

You as the owner do have the evidence, we as posters do not have access to.

You as the owner of this platform are now reacting, due to the multitude of complaints, not because I as a single poster complained.

You must be aware that if you do not address this issue, the only way the poster can address this issue is by voting with their feet.

I do appreciate that you wish to remain impartial, however after posting on this forum since the early days and enjoying that, suddenly being told by your bot that I run the chance to get permanently banned, after an influx of some newbies, who are constantly hitting the report button and trying to change how and what we post.
I ask myself what the hell is happening here.

If people arrive on this forum and they don't like what they see, they are free to leave, there is nobody who tells them 'Please stay, we need you'.
Because at the end of the day we need idiots like that like hole in the head.

The forum was a great place until we recently were overrun by these clowns, who believe they should change the world.

As you notice, I am disappointed and pissed off.
I do not wish to be disruptive, but if this is going to be the new TSE, I have better things to do.

Mate to be fair I’ve got a 7 week old / newborn, a full time job (this is not it) and currently suffering a flu with two eyes filled with conjunctivitis over the last two weeks. It’s just a matter of playing catch up at present.

You assume a hell of a lot. You are free to come and go as you please. I won’t continue coming in here to derail the thread with this talk. Let’s chat in messages. If you say you’ve sent me a message I’ll go through and find it. As I said, I’m playing catch up presently and dealing with a few issues that have lapsed in the last few weeks.

Edit: sigh, I just checked. You mentioned one person which is already banned. You haven’t given me any more information about anyone else. If you have more information, please share it in message. Or don’t. It’s up to you.

 

[Onthefm]

AVZ can't sell to CATH while Cominiere are still in Dathcom because they would have pre-emption on the 24% (or 9%). This is also why management can't accept Zijin under any circumstances as they would then have the pre-emption on the CATH deal as their purchase would be considered to have been completed first. That's why the TIA completion keeps getting pushed back imo

I'm hoping that when all this shit is sorted all previous deals , off takes , percentage to be sold will be renegotiated with the new dfs in hand and hopefully the euros or yanks will finally stand up and be counted. As I can't see the ccp just saying oh well we lost but best of luck with your project. It's not in their dna.

 

[Roon]

AVZ can't sell to CATH while Cominiere are still in Dathcom because they would have pre-emption on the 24% (or 9%). This is also why management can't accept Zijin under any circumstances as they would then have the pre-emption on the CATH deal as their purchase would be considered to have been completed first. That's why the TIA completion keeps getting pushed back imo

Wouldn't Cominiere need to match the offer from CATH though in their preemption? They barely have enough cash for snacks

Though I guess they could get a backhand commitment from Zijin to purchase for 250m and then get a bank to back the funds.

I imagine that Cominiere agreeing in the JVA to cede 10% to government is probably one of the reasons they are fighting so hard for Zijin to take over, they must be kicking themselves at signing on to that.

 

[Mr Inappropriate]

AVZ can't sell to CATH while Cominiere are still in Dathcom because they would have pre-emption on the 24% (or 9%). This is also why management can't accept Zijin under any circumstances as they would then have the pre-emption on the CATH deal as their purchase would be considered to have been completed first. That's why the TIA completion keeps getting pushed back imo

Very good pick-up, CD.

 

[cruiser51]

Mate to be fair I’ve got a 7 week old / newborn, a full time job (this is not it) and currently suffering a flu with two eyes filled with conjunctivitis over the last two weeks. It’s just a matter of playing catch up at present.

You assume a hell of a lot. You are free to come and go as you please. I won’t continue coming in here to derail the thread with this talk. Let’s chat in messages. If you say you’ve sent me a message I’ll go through and find it. As I said, I’m playing catch up presently and dealing with a few issues that have lapsed in the last few weeks.

Edit: sigh, I just checked. You mentioned one person which is already banned. You haven’t given me any more information about anyone else. If you have more information, please share it in message. Or don’t. It’s up to you.

I can't tell you what to do, other than look after your little one and I hope you get better soon.