AVZ Discussion 2022

John Reed

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It might be safer and easier for FT to make his call on Manono after the election ? Is he caught between a rock and hard place ? Obviously AVZ does not have the luxury of waiting until the election to find out . Nigel will need to make a call well before then . IMO
I am just thinking AVZ is now just a part of something bigger and that’s been well broadcasted with US propositioning the EV plant in central Africa. US needs to find a way back to the political hearts of the Congolese.

I also think AVZ has already compromised : think back to all the European plans for a hydroxide plant — what happened? Risk? Or, did RDC Kinshasa want more in-country - who persuaded? I recall vividly in a video interview Nigel expressing reluctance about a planned plant (leaked) in RDC- all this is, in all likelihood, Kinshasa interest interfering at the behest of the Chinese. Whether ill intentioned or not I can’t say with certainty.
 
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Samus

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Fighting for control is the incorrect word to use.

That implies that we may not actually have control.

Rather. It should be avz. Defending their rights. And zijin trying to illegitimately and fraudulently gaining control

I'm ot the opinion that zijin should not be offered a part of company.
Yes its frustrating, the various media have turned this into something other than what it is. Nobody is calling out the real problems and when they do they're shut down in a sea of disinformation and bullshit or simply ignored like the IGF. The country is so far backwards in every way that it isn't even funny. Morons, criminals and Mafioso government. The real people seem okay but most of them have nfi what's really going because of the above.
 
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wombat74

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I don't think it is all over red rover. If AVZ stop constantly spending money on drilling and reduce staff expenses then it should not cost much at all to keep AVZ ticking over. Obviously the historical cash burn cannot continue.

I hope it does resolve in our favour before then, but it just does not seem to be happening.
Sorry I disagree . Obviously FT's number one priority is winning the election . Gee a trip to Beijing 7 months out from an election ?? What could they be discussing ? We can help you to victory FT if you help China . MoM said it was a matter of urgency . That was 3 months ago . OK so how long is urgent ? They are obviously f--king us around . I say no result within the next few months (end July) then we say f--k you times up . Turn the tables . Plaster it on the front of all the Major newspapers /media in the world . imo
 
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wombat74

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I am just thinking AVZ is now just a part of something bigger and that’s been well broadcasted with US propositioning the EV plant in central Africa. US needs to find a way back to the political hearts of the Congolese.

I also think AVZ has already compromised : think back to all the European plans for a hydroxide plant — what happened? Risk? Or, did RDC Kinshasa want more in-country - who persuaded? I recall vividly in a video interview Nigel expressing reluctance about a planned plant (leaked) in RDC- all this is, in all likelihood, Kinshasa interest interfering at the behest of the Chinese. Whether ill intentioned or not I can’t say with certainty.
Lets bring it back to basics . AVZ = ML .What percentage cut that ends up as doesn't matter . AVZ = ML . It's not a grey issue . AVZ= ML
 
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Lets bring it back to basics . AVZ = ML .What percentage cut that ends up as doesn't matter . AVZ = ML . It's not a grey issue . AVZ= ML
Follow.the.fucking.mining.code (i.e. the fucking LAW). It’s not hard.
 
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John Reed

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Follow.the.fucking.mining.code (i.e. the fucking LAW). It’s not hard.
Congolese just don’t seem ready for governing without corruption. Inherited from Mobutu days or who knows when
 
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Li-AusPol

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For the life of me I can’t understand how the BOD have been in high level discussions with the DRC gov re: the issue of the ML - for the past 12 months with zero results!

What is actually being discussed?

12 months of negotiations and nothing??

How is that even possible….????

Again…. What is actually being discussed at each meeting???

Where’s the progress!

I’m with you Wombat - it’s time to draw a line in the sand - the BOD needs to stop believing hearsay and start taking action.

And seriously start taking massive cost cuts immediately re: salaries - reduce them!

The cash burn is ridiculous at a time when the company is in suspension.

I know asx companies where the directors took huge pay cuts and staff were reduced to part time from full time (voluntarily) just to survive covid lockdowns and a massive downturn in revenue

Now that is how taking ‘ownership’ look likes and having a committed BOD to saving a company. It starts from the top.

Since then that company has been kicking goals - I wonder why?

The time for fluff and hoping the ML will fall on our laps is over it’s time for concrete action
 
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John Reed

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Lets bring it back to basics . AVZ = ML .What percentage cut that ends up as doesn't matter . AVZ = ML . It's not a grey issue . AVZ= ML
My point was, it’s not just a legal matter, it’s political and so it’s not just AVZ BoD at work claiming rights
 
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cruiser51

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ANALYSIS

China’s Got Afghan Fever, Again


Nothing says forever like the promise of Afghanistan’s mineral riches.​

ODonnell-Lynne-foreign-policy-columnistLynne O’Donnell

By Lynne O’Donnell, a columnist at Foreign Policy and an Australian journalist and author.

A worker walks past machinery that crushes rocks at the Mughulkhil chromite mine in Logar province,
Afghanistan, on Sept. 1, 2022. MARCUS YAM / LOS ANGELES TIMES


APRIL 24, 2023, 3:57 PM

China, once again, seems to be mucking about in Afghanistan’s mineral-rich playground. The latest move is a maybe, could-be deal worth billions to tap Afghanistan’s rich veins of lithium, the key input for the energy transition that powers everything from laptops to electric cars. It could mean that billions of dollars will be pouring into securing a prosperous future for one of the world’s poorest countries. It probably won’t. The deal, like so much else China has done with Afghanistan in the last several decades, is more about politics than economics.

On paper, at least, Beijing’s latest deal with the Taliban looks impressive: $10 billion for access to lithium deposits, creating 120,000 direct jobs, plus some infrastructure building and repairs thrown in for good measure.
But rather than underpinning hope for economic revival, this contract is likely to join other Chinese ventures in Afghanistan that have been signed with great fanfare—for the republic and extremists alike—only to go out with a whimper rather than a bang.
China famously signed a $3 billion deal to develop Afghanistan’s largest copper deposit, not far from Kabul, and then unceremoniously decamped once the shooting started.

Afghanistan is ostensibly an El Dorado, with mineral riches worth at least $1 trillion. But resources, in this case of lithium, are sketchily surveyed: The main geological assays were done when the Soviets invaded in the 1980s and when the Americans did the same two decades later.
And resources—potential ore—are not the same as reserves, which are things that can be dug up profitably. Bolivia, for instance, is a big part of South America’s so-called lithium triangle, but Chile and Argentina’s reserves are infinitely more attractive. And then there’s the security issue, a problem that has plagued Afghanistan for the last few decades, or centuries, and which spooked the Chinese away from their big copper project.

Even if mining could go on without bloodshed, who would sign the contracts?
Few recognize the Taliban government, and a chunk of the cabinet is under international sanctions for terrorism.
The legal and regulatory uncertainty almost renders the rest moot.

“The Chinese, at best, will get the contract and sit on it to keep control of the supply and prices of lithium,” said Javed Noorani, an expert on Afghanistan’s mining sector.
China has already extended the tentacles of its signature Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) well into neighboring Pakistan, making it the centerpiece of an infrastructure orgy across Central and South Asia. Afghanistan could be next.
“They’ll extend their Belt and Road through Afghanistan, which will seriously jeopardize any regime in Kabul once it is integrated,” Noorani said.

The multibillion-dollar BRI is central to China’s foreign policy. Announced in 2013, it seeks to link Asia with Europe and Africa, overland and overseas. Until the fall of the republic in August 2021, Afghanistan hadn’t been folded into the BRI in any meaningful way.
The showpiece for Beijing was Pakistan, where successive governments have gotten a few highways and power plants and become increasingly indebted to China as the country hurtles toward bankruptcy.
Beijing has just extended Pakistan a new loan of $700 million to help it through its current economic woes; it comes on top of the $30 billion Islamabad already owes China.

Noorani fears Afghanistan will similarly become indebted to China, which often makes loans conditional on no-bid access, monopoly operation, and guaranteed high prices. As any punter knows, loan conditions can change when repayment looms, especially if late.
“It starts at the weak end, with the infrastructure that every country needs. And then it creeps into the arteries of the state, especially the economy, and that’s where the control begins,” Noorani said.
READ MORE
U.S. President Joe Biden speaks during a virtual meeting on securing critical mineral supply chains in the South Court Auditorium, located near the White House in Washington, D.C.


As an essential component of rechargeable batteries and electronic devices, lithium is often referred to as “white gold.”
While much of the hard-rock lithium comes from Australia and from brines in Chile and Argentina, China dominates lithium refining.
Prices skyrocketed between 2020 and 2022 on projected demand for the finite resource. But lithium prices have plummeted in recent months, with one reason being the Chinese government’s decision to end subsidies for electric vehicles.

If there’s reason to be skeptical of Chinese ambitions toward Afghanistan’s lithium, it’s because we’ve seen this before. In 2007, China paid almost $3 billion for a 30-year lease at the massive copper deposit of Mes Aynak, promising to build mines, smelters, factories, schools, roads, and a railway; protect the remains of an ancient Buddhist city nearby; create jobs for Afghans; and generate revenue for the Afghan state.
The Chinese contractor, MCC, allegedly paid a huge kickback to the then-minister of mines, built a fence at the site, took some potshots from insurgents, packed up, and left. Beijing refused to renegotiate the contract. The site remains untouched.

But that was then, perhaps.
The Taliban’s victory over the U.S.-backed republic has made Afghanistan vulnerable to Chinese economic exploitation by opening the doors to a desperately impoverished country controlled by a group that has zero ability to run a modern state.
For years, Beijing has winked and nodded at the Taliban, giving the leadership the red-carpet treatment even before they retook power, with a tacit understanding that investment would flow afterward. China’s then-foreign minister, Wang Yi, visited Kabul in March 2022 for discussions that the Taliban said included BRI projects.
Luckily for them, the Kabul Zoo has no macaques.

For China, Afghanistan is not the mother lode of lithium; there are other, cheaper alternatives elsewhere, even if Chile is busy nationalizing its own lithium industry, potentially narrowing Beijing’s options in the good places. But China’s interest in Afghanistan goes beyond mines and minerals and looks more toward ministers.

China doesn’t need Afghanistan for what’s in the ground—not right now, anyway.
Locking down future access to natural resources might be smart in the long term. In the short term, Beijing’s interests are purely political.
For longer than Beijing has been supporting the Taliban, the Taliban have been supporting the anti-China East Turkestan Islamic Movement—Uyghurs who oppose the United States and NATO—and so are owed an eternal debt of gratitude.
With the Taliban’s takeover, a number of terrorist outfits threatening regional security are safe in Afghanistan, including the ETIM, who dream of driving China out of Xinjiang, where millions of Chinese Muslims are incarcerated in “reeducation” facilities.
The Taliban haven’t criticized China’s anti-Uyghur policies, which have been deemed a genocide by the United States, but neither have they complied with Beijing’s demands to deport Uyghurs.

It’s a classic clash: the gerontological atheists who rule China making impossible demands of religious fanatics whose survival depends on putting Islamism first.
“There is a trust deficit between China and the Taliban,” said Ma Haiyun, an associate professor of history at Frostburg State University.
Some senior Taliban figures don’t like the way the Chinese do business, Ma and other sources said, but publicly they’re happy to have at least one friend sign some contracts and make them look like they’re making some progress.
More than 18 months after taking over, the Taliban have no economy, little government, and fewer prospects.
Even poisoned chalices are welcome to a thirsty man.

For now, the Taliban are flattered by China’s flirtation, but they’ll be quickly overwhelmed when Beijing gets serious, said Noorani, the mining expert.
“The Taliban will not be in a position to negotiate a great contract as they have no knowledge of how complicated contract negotiations can be, especially in the absence of clear legal frameworks and sound institutional arrangements,” he said.
“Afghanistan may be a bit player for now: poor, hungry, exhausted by almost half a century of war. But its future is more likely to be defined by China’s ambitions than the retrogressive mullahs currently in charge.”
 
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John25

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Well it's safe to say no decision will be made re Manono until that trip is completed . Could also be one reason why Zijin delayed ICC . I wonder if the largest /richest lithium deposit on the planet comes up in conversation ? Some encouragement perhaps for Felix to make the right decision . You couldn't script this sh1t show to be any worse if you tried . Here's Nigel in the DRC busting his f--king balls ,with no luck, trying to make contact with Felix while Felix jumps on his Jet , flys 11,267km to meet with the CCP . Plan B Nige
Who would know what Nigel is doing ????? Any evidence where he is ,you say hes …”busting his balls” …i believe different
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ptlas

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cruiser51

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wombat74

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My point was, it’s not just a legal matter, it’s political and so it’s not just AVZ BoD at work claiming rights
Regardless they still have to abide by their own laws . The evidence is clear . Enough time has been wasted . Lets see how Fox's new inside info pans out . Maybe 7th time lucky . Picture for a second the AGM in November and we are still being filled with Bull Sh1t . Not going to happen imo. Quarterly due by end of week . $$$$$ left? A few customary words of bullsh1t with regards to this never ending load of bollocks with no end in sight . What month in 2023 does Nigel finally say get f--ked ?
 
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DoubleA

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Sorry I disagree . Obviously FT's number one priority is winning the election . Gee a trip to Beijing 7 months out from an election ?? What could they be discussing ? We can help you to victory FT if you help China . MoM said it was a matter of urgency . That was 3 months ago . OK so how long is urgent ? They are obviously f--king us around . I say no result within the next few months (end July) then we say f--k you times up . Turn the tables . Plaster it on the front of all the Major newspapers /media in the world . imo

Agree on:
- FT number 1 priority
- purpose of trip to China
- DRC fucking us around.

It is a possibility that this has to go the way of Sundance resources and AVZ seek compensation from DRC. I really hope it does not happen. I have been searching around for examples where companies who have been stripped of resources in corrupt jurisdictions have sought compensation.








Does anyone have any good examples where large payouts have happened?

What sort of time frame would we be looking at? 5 years?
 
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Li-AusPol

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Frank

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Frank

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Frank

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Frank

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Flexi

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