AVZ Discussion 2022

[Samus]

Cobalt, Copper and #lithium The #USA and Australia against the Chinese monopoly . China controls 60% of the minerals of #RDC , often accused of corruption to obtain contracts, of non-respect of workers' rights , how will it defend itself?


And knowing that the Manono mine has 500,000,000 lithium reserves at $80,000 per ton! A mine for which "The Australians and the Chinese are fighting over control...to the misfortune of the Congolese.
@KiengeKki

No, let's be clear, it's the Chinese who want to bribe it after the Australians have certified at their expense.

 

[wombat74]

Mate, it's pretty much all window dressing in the lead-up to the election. If he was going to do something worthwhile about corruption and Chinese looting, it would have been done already. He's in China seeking financial aid, and maybe arms to manage the deteriorating security issue in the north east.

The other thing is that it's now been almost three months since the decree awarding Dathcom the ML was repealed. If Felix's govt was going to take it further, it would have been done so already. Me thinks that the govt is unable to pull the pin on Dathcom's exploration licence because of the multi-billion dollar damages claim that would surely follow.

Given the undeniable evidence of widespread govt and Chinese corruption, and that AVZ followed the mining code, the DRC would have a hard time convincing any ICC court that its decisions were anything but corrupt and illegal. I think the DRC govt is prepared to wait for the conga line of ICC cases to run their course, regardless of opportunity cost and lost revenue.

Just thinking out aloud.

Cheers
F

If the ICC cases are needed for FT to make a decision then forget about it . Nigel will need to call Bull Sh1t well before then . Before the election . FT can make a captains call . He has all the evidence he needs to hand the ML to AVZ/DATH right now . Stalling on account of ICC verdicts which are based on BS anyway is not acceptable . Nigel will need to make his own Captain's Call . That is , well this is obviously going round in circles with no end in sight . Time to put the Big Guns in front of the ICC and do it before the election . This sh1t show has to end and it has to end soon . On AVZ terms . (hopefully wont be needed and all ends well) .

 

[Thaz]

Cobalt, Copper and #lithium The #USA and Australia against the Chinese monopoly . China controls 60% of the minerals of #RDC , often accused of corruption to obtain contracts, of non-respect of workers' rights , how will it defend itself?


And knowing that the Manono mine has 500,000,000 lithium reserves at $80,000 per ton! A mine for which "The Australians and the Chinese are fighting over control...to the misfortune of the Congolese.
@KiengeKki

No, let's be clear, it's the Chinese who want to bribe it after the Australians have certified at their expense.

Fighting for control is the incorrect word to use.

That implies that we may not actually have control.

Rather. It should be avz. Defending their rights. And zijin trying to illegitimately and fraudulently gaining control

I'm ot the opinion that zijin should not be offered a part of company.

 

[DoubleA]

"Perhaps the Congolese don’t yet get how strategic Manono is." That would be the understatement of this whole shitshow John!

This was a great post by John but as for the Congolese not realising how strategic Manono is, I would say the exact opposite is true.

If this deposit was borderline uneconomic to mine with a below average resource we would have nowhere near the amount of roadblocks.

The DRC are trying to leverage this deposit to get people to set up a whole battery manufacturing industry in the country. Many also keep talking about renegotiating contracts, they try to get around following their own mining code, the Chinese are paying tens of millions in bribes, people in this thread are also speculating that China's provision of tanks to DRC could also be linked etc. Certainly some of the people involved in DRC know the importance.

Several years ago when people kept saying how many billion this deposit was worth and AVZ kept drilling and drilling, I did wonder whether this was wise when the final arrangements had not been made with Dathomir/Cominiere etc. I wondered if it would have been possible to just drill a limited amount and basically say "yes it is economical to mine" and then get a small operation started. Later further drilling could have been announced to show "ohh it was actually bigger than we thought" and operations could have been expanded.

I realise hindsight is 20:20, but it just seems to me that AVZ really showed their hand and got badly taken advantage of. Maybe Financing would never have been possible for a small operation and transport would not have been feasible. It just seemed back then and now that announcing in a place as corrupt as the DRC "Oh hey everyone look over here there's billions of dollars worth of lithium at Manono" was an absolute recipe for disaster.

 

[Flight996]

If the ICC cases are needed for FT to make a decision then forget about it . Nigel will need to call Bull Sh1t well before then . Before the election . FT can make a captains call . He has all the evidence he needs to hand the ML to AVZ/DATH right now . Stalling on account of ICC verdicts which are based on BS anyway is not acceptable . Nigel will need to make his own Captain's Call . That is , well this is obviously going round in circles with no end in sight . Time to put the Big Guns in front of the ICC and do it before the election . This sh1t show has to end and it has to end soon . On AVZ terms . (hopefully wont be needed ) .

The Zijin-AVZ case is still in train; just delayed due to GOKW. Some here suggest September.

I honestly don't know the answer to this clusterfuck, but from a strategic point of view, the DRC government is much better off allowing the ICC to adjudicate and give its imprimatur to the outcome, than prematurely pulling the pin on Dathcom's lease and getting a multi-billion dollar invoice in the mail.

I think the DRC government is prepared to wait for the negotiated outcome.

Cheers
F

 

[DoubleA]

It might be safer and easier for FT to make his call on Manono after the election ? Is he caught between a rock and hard place ? Obviously AVZ does not have the luxury of waiting until the election to find out . Nigel will need to make a call well before then . IMO

The election is one of my main hopes for being the catalyst to unblock this project.

There is the possibility that Martin Fayulu could win. He got the most votes at the previous election but Kabila "adjusted" the numbers. Maybe it is wishful thinking but USA did express doubt about the previous election. Given the USA's interest in the DRC resources, may they be able to assist in the upcoming election to make it more transparent? I do remember reading about these suggestions after last election. More likely it is wishful thinking from me, but I see Martin Fayulu as an outside chance.

The other possibility I hope for is that Fatshi gets back in but then no longer requires the support of Minister of Portfolio and others. Similar to how he allied himself with Kabila to get elected last time and then betrayed that alliance. My hope would be that once he gets elected he then gets rid of Minister of Portfolio and other corrupt individuals opposing AVZ once his use for them has served its purpose.

 

[Carlos Danger]

I think the DRC government is prepared to wait for the negotiated outcome.

With a view to save the Manono project. Nature to paralyse the exploitation of lithium and to prevent the state from channeling the products resulting from the mining licence. Given the need and urgency.

It's been 3 months since the MoM used this reasoning to cancel the mining licence for the south of PE13359. The ICC cases could take years. Nigel has called their bluff and so far there doesn't seem to be any need and urgency in moving the project forward. Let's see who blinks first.

 

[wombat74]

The election is one of my main hopes for being the catalyst to unblock this project.

There is the possibility that Martin Fayulu could win. He got the most votes at the previous election but Kabila "adjusted" the numbers. Maybe it is wishful thinking but USA did express doubt about the previous election. Given the USA's interest in the DRC resources, may they be able to assist in the upcoming election to make it more transparent? I do remember reading about these suggestions after last election. More likely it is wishful thinking from me, but I see Martin Fayulu as an outside chance.

The other possibility I hope for is that Fatshi gets back in but then no longer requires the support of Minister of Portfolio and others. Similar to how he allied himself with Kabila to get elected last time and then betrayed that alliance. My hope would be that once he gets elected he then gets rid of Minister of Portfolio and other corrupt individuals opposing AVZ once his use for them has served its purpose.

Forget it mate . If we are still sitting here at election time is all over red rover . Nigel needs to call time on this sh1t show before then . I'd rather spend our last $10 million suing them on the world stage than let them lead us down the garden path so they can f--k us over later. Gloves have to come off at some point . Nigel needs to ask the direct questions to FT &MoM . Are you giving us the ML or not ? Yes or No . Any other answer is unacceptable .All answers other than yes lead straight to the ICC . It's been 12 months . They have had enough time . They have enough evidence .

 

[Samus]

#RDC Sweden interested in the Congolese mining sector

 

[wombat74]

#RDC Sweden interested in the Congolese mining sector

Notice she only smiles when it's a photo with Chinese .

 

[John Reed]

This was a great post by John but as for the Congolese not realising how strategic Manono is, I would say the exact opposite is true.

If this deposit was borderline uneconomic to mine with a below average resource we would have nowhere near the amount of roadblocks.

The DRC are trying to leverage this deposit to get people to set up a whole battery manufacturing industry in the country. Many also keep talking about renegotiating contracts, they try to get around following their own mining code, the Chinese are paying tens of millions in bribes, people in this thread are also speculating that China's provision of tanks to DRC could also be linked etc. Certainly some of the people involved in DRC know the importance.

Several years ago when people kept saying how many billion this deposit was worth and AVZ kept drilling and drilling, I did wonder whether this was wise when the final arrangements had not been made with Dathomir/Cominiere etc. I wondered if it would have been possible to just drill a limited amount and basically say "yes it is economical to mine" and then get a small operation started. Later further drilling could have been announced to show "ohh it was actually bigger than we thought" and operations could have been expanded.

I realise hindsight is 20:20, but it just seems to me that AVZ really showed their hand and got badly taken advantage of. Maybe Financing would never have been possible for a small operation and transport would not have been feasible. It just seemed back then and now that announcing in a place as corrupt as the DRC "Oh hey everyone look over here there's billions of dollars worth of lithium at Manono" was an absolute recipe for disaster.

I believe Serge Ngandu has equity in the drilling company active in Manono. Just a fact I picked up on the way over the years holding AVZ.

As you know, Drilling keeps the “lights on” while waiting for the market to come good, plus all the mucking around on the starting point for ore feed (and the lake as an impediment). I’ve never seen so much adjustment compared to Australian plays, I suppose it’s worth getting just right and testing degree of ‘homogeneity’.

 

[DoubleA]

Forget it mate . If we are still sitting here at election time is all over red rover . Nigel needs to call time on this sh1t show before then . I'd rather spend our last $10 million suing them on the world stage than let them lead us down the garden path so they can f--k us over later. Gloves have to come off at some point . Nigel needs to ask the direct questions to FT &MoM . Are you giving us the ML or not ? Yes or No . Any other answer is unacceptable .All answers other than yes lead straight to the ICC . It's been 12 months . They have had enough time . They have enough evidence .

I don't think it is all over red rover. If AVZ stop constantly spending money on drilling and reduce staff expenses then it should not cost much at all to keep AVZ ticking over. Obviously the historical cash burn cannot continue.

I hope it does resolve in our favour before then, but it just does not seem to be happening.

 

[John Reed]

It might be safer and easier for FT to make his call on Manono after the election ? Is he caught between a rock and hard place ? Obviously AVZ does not have the luxury of waiting until the election to find out . Nigel will need to make a call well before then . IMO

I am just thinking AVZ is now just a part of something bigger and that’s been well broadcasted with US propositioning the EV plant in central Africa. US needs to find a way back to the political hearts of the Congolese.

I also think AVZ has already compromised : think back to all the European plans for a hydroxide plant — what happened? Risk? Or, did RDC Kinshasa want more in-country - who persuaded? I recall vividly in a video interview Nigel expressing reluctance about a planned plant (leaked) in RDC- all this is, in all likelihood, Kinshasa interest interfering at the behest of the Chinese. Whether ill intentioned or not I can’t say with certainty.

 

[Samus]

Fighting for control is the incorrect word to use.

That implies that we may not actually have control.

Rather. It should be avz. Defending their rights. And zijin trying to illegitimately and fraudulently gaining control

I'm ot the opinion that zijin should not be offered a part of company.

Yes its frustrating, the various media have turned this into something other than what it is. Nobody is calling out the real problems and when they do they're shut down in a sea of disinformation and bullshit or simply ignored like the IGF. The country is so far backwards in every way that it isn't even funny. Morons, criminals and Mafioso government. The real people seem okay but most of them have nfi what's really going because of the above.

 

[wombat74]

I don't think it is all over red rover. If AVZ stop constantly spending money on drilling and reduce staff expenses then it should not cost much at all to keep AVZ ticking over. Obviously the historical cash burn cannot continue.

I hope it does resolve in our favour before then, but it just does not seem to be happening.

Sorry I disagree . Obviously FT's number one priority is winning the election . Gee a trip to Beijing 7 months out from an election ?? What could they be discussing ? We can help you to victory FT if you help China . MoM said it was a matter of urgency . That was 3 months ago . OK so how long is urgent ? They are obviously f--king us around . I say no result within the next few months (end July) then we say f--k you times up . Turn the tables . Plaster it on the front of all the Major newspapers /media in the world . imo

 

[wombat74]

I am just thinking AVZ is now just a part of something bigger and that’s been well broadcasted with US propositioning the EV plant in central Africa. US needs to find a way back to the political hearts of the Congolese.

I also think AVZ has already compromised : think back to all the European plans for a hydroxide plant — what happened? Risk? Or, did RDC Kinshasa want more in-country - who persuaded? I recall vividly in a video interview Nigel expressing reluctance about a planned plant (leaked) in RDC- all this is, in all likelihood, Kinshasa interest interfering at the behest of the Chinese. Whether ill intentioned or not I can’t say with certainty.

Lets bring it back to basics . AVZ = ML .What percentage cut that ends up as doesn't matter . AVZ = ML . It's not a grey issue . AVZ= ML

 

[Mr Inappropriate]

Lets bring it back to basics . AVZ = ML .What percentage cut that ends up as doesn't matter . AVZ = ML . It's not a grey issue . AVZ= ML

Follow.the.fucking.mining.code (i.e. the fucking LAW). It’s not hard.

 

[John Reed]

Follow.the.fucking.mining.code (i.e. the fucking LAW). It’s not hard.

Congolese just don’t seem ready for governing without corruption. Inherited from Mobutu days or who knows when

 

[Li-AusPol]

For the life of me I can’t understand how the BOD have been in high level discussions with the DRC gov re: the issue of the ML - for the past 12 months with zero results!

What is actually being discussed?

12 months of negotiations and nothing??

How is that even possible….????

Again…. What is actually being discussed at each meeting???

Where’s the progress!

I’m with you Wombat - it’s time to draw a line in the sand - the BOD needs to stop believing hearsay and start taking action.

And seriously start taking massive cost cuts immediately re: salaries - reduce them!

The cash burn is ridiculous at a time when the company is in suspension.

I know asx companies where the directors took huge pay cuts and staff were reduced to part time from full time (voluntarily) just to survive covid lockdowns and a massive downturn in revenue

Now that is how taking ‘ownership’ look likes and having a committed BOD to saving a company. It starts from the top.

Since then that company has been kicking goals - I wonder why?

The time for fluff and hoping the ML will fall on our laps is over it’s time for concrete action

 

[John Reed]

Lets bring it back to basics . AVZ = ML .What percentage cut that ends up as doesn't matter . AVZ = ML . It's not a grey issue . AVZ= ML

My point was, it’s not just a legal matter, it’s political and so it’s not just AVZ BoD at work claiming rights