Skar
Regular
Before anyone thinks of doing something like this, please speak to an accountant and familiarize yourself with the concept of a wash sale.
AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
- Start date
Before anyone thinks of doing something like this, please speak to an accountant and familiarize yourself with the concept of a wash sale.
...and related-party transactions, which are red flags to the ATO, particularly in a SMSF.
My expectation is that the ATO will be ok so long as the sale of your non-super AVZ shares to your SMSF is done at a transaction value that is prepared by an ATO approved valuation company. I have obtained a quote for the valuation fee, which is $5,500, plus I have submitted a formal query to the ATO via the Business Portal secure mail process, and at present I am waiting for the ATO reponse. The ATO has indicated that their response will be available by 25-Apr-2025, but perhaps they may take longer. If the ATO approves my proposal, I will proceed with the formal valuation of AVZ and complete the transfer of my non-Super AVZ shares to my SMSF before Kobold and RIO, for example, buy AVZ.
Correct.... can't be done from related entity while de-listed. Potentially can purchase with SMSF from a non-related entity
.... could be interested in a win-win arrangement if someone else looking to get some holdings across into their SMSF.Before I get torched for coming out of the woodwork... I'm just an introverted long time holder that's been lurking in the shadows suffering the same mental/financial strain as everyone else through this fkd up drama. Recent development give a glimmer of hope, however I have no doubt given the mud thrown to date, our enemies are working overtime to screw us further
.Getting an ATO ruling in advance is good insurance and shows a commitment to transparency.
oxxa23
Regular
Correct.... can't be done from related entity while de-listed. Potentially can purchase with SMSF from a non-related entity
Before I get torched for coming out of the woodwork... I'm just an introverted long time holder that's been lurking in the shadows suffering the same mental/financial strain as everyone else through this fkd up drama. Recent development give a glimmer of hope, however I have no doubt given the mud thrown to date, our enemies are working overtime to screw us further
Maybe, but the ATO's data matching algorithms may flag cross-holding transactions undergone with the purpose of avoiding tax.
If the ATO decides to disallow a transaction, the trustee is in a world of pain.
oxxa23
Regular
To be fair... ato are bloody useless... even when their data is incredibly specific and pointed...
But, we could get hit by a bus outside our front door too...
But there's no tax avoidance going on.... in fact it may even trigger a CGT event for each selling entity depending on the $.
Oh, I hope I didn't misunderstand your comment.
If you are thinking of a one-way transaction in order for your SMSF to simply acquire the asset at market value from an unrelated party...good to go.
However, if it's a two-way transaction (below) then the ATO may smite thee, depending on its view on the purpose of the transactions:
- an individual sells an asset (unlisted AVZ shares) to an unrelated party, and
- the unrelated party back-sells the same asset (unlisted AVZ shares) to the original person's SMSF...then the ATO may see this as a contrived scheme to avoid tax, regardless of whether some CGT is collected in the process.
F
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You sound like my Accountant
give me a sale and I'll be grateful to discuss tax obligations, until then paying tax is the furthest thing on my mind. What I took out of the series of us-africa media hub tweets that Frank posted is that negotiations are ongoing and going ok but actually getting a deal done could be a long way off.
KentCStrait
Member
So much bad and incorrect tax advice—on an offer that hasn’t even been made yet!
Assuming an offer is made, and we as shareholders actually accept it (I’m still highly skeptical we won’t be screwed over yet again), the most likely outcome is a share buyback to allow shareholders to realise their capital gains discount.
Assuming an offer is made, and we as shareholders actually accept it (I’m still highly skeptical we won’t be screwed over yet again), the most likely outcome is a share buyback to allow shareholders to realise their capital gains discount.
If the US want us to drop legal proceedings in order to get a deal done , does this mean a deal needs to be secured/guaranteed prior to the commencement of the ICSID case in early June , or does this also mean we can start proceedings then pull the case prior to final verdict once a deal is satisfactory ?
Well that’s the decision for Kobild or whoever wants it. Offer a decent amount now and assume some risk or risk AVZ doing very well at ICSID and being awarded 10+B and setting the floor price. Once ICSID begins AVZ should see it through
oxxa23
Regular
Please explain how capital buyback enables cgt discount? If they have the cash, let's just say $5bn, that will have already been due to a taxable transaction... in which case anything above the $226m of issued capital would need to come back as dividend wouldnit not? A share bauback will still leave all the retained profits...
Yes a share buy back would enable crystallising of losses also, but, not cgt discount...
Avz would have to do a deal where shareholders shares are either purchased or taken script for script to enable any cgt relief... (other than crystallising losses).
I long for a cgt event, but, feel it is unlikely... avz won't want to give Chinese or mmga maggots a vote on share sale or project sale... therefore I think it will need to be structured some other way... likewise, due to catl, don't think we'll receive the ML deliberately... both make be feel a taxable event wil be the result... not a cgt event for shareholders.... of course I could be wrong... just my opinion and gut feel
Azzler
Top 20
Surely they could at least try for a share sale vote and have a contingency back up ready to go if the maggots manage to vote it down.
Frank
Top 20
*In other News, I see where they're still banging on about the Corridor
“The development of the corridors must be accompanied by an integrated and sustainable vision.
I dream of a rail network from Greater Katanga to the Grand Kasai, the Grand Bandundu, Kinshasa, the central Kongo to the deep-water port of Banana,” said Félix Tshisekedi, stressing that “this backbone is a priority for our country, as it will strengthen internal connectivity and open up new economic opportunities.”
“In order to ensure the effectiveness and rigorous follow-up of these initiatives, I instruct the Government, under the authority of the Prime Minister, in close cooperation with my cabinet to set up a working group dedicated to coordinating and monitoring activities related to the Corridors,” he said before commenting on the formatting of a controlled urban planning favourable to economic development.
“Beyond infrastructure, we need to ensure harmonious development. Corridors must be accompanied by controlled urban planning with high-quality residential, commercial and public services, SMEs and Pmi to boost the local economy and create jobs,” he explained.
The Lobito Corridor a unique opportunity to capitalise
In addition, President Tshisekedi has returned to the corridor project under preparation between the DRC, Angola and zambia as a regional economic triggering model.
“A concrete example of this ambition is the Lobito Corridor, which I have been strongly practicing.
This project, the result of exemplary cooperation between the DRC, zambia and Angola, with the support of international partners, aims to build 1739 km of railways, including 427 km in our territory interconnected to a regional road network.
At the Lobito corridor summit, in the presence of the Heads of State of three countries and the former President of the United States, I recalled that this project goes beyond mere logistics.
This is a unique opportunity to strengthen regional integration by streamlining trade, boosting economic transformation by valuing our mineral and agricultural resources, and improving living conditions by developing modern infrastructure and community-based services,” he said.
“The Lobito corridor is a promise of the future for our entrepreneurs, our farmers and our youth. They will find opportunities for innovation and growth,” he also said.
For him, these corridors are not mere transport routes, they are vital routes for cultural economic integration, linking economic centres to regional and continental markets.
“They promote not only the smooth flow of goods and people, but above all the local transformation of our agricultural, mining and industrial products, as well as their flow to destinations such as the ports of the Atlantic and the Indian Ocean.
They attract investment, stimulate job creation and pave the way for modern governance for the well-being of our people.”
The President of the Concrete Expo, Jean Bamanisa, stressed that the question is no longer whether the DRC is rich, but how to transport, value and market effectively.
mediacongo
*To remind,
With Brussels now also on board, western efforts to counter Chinese influence over critical minerals are gathering pace.
9th Concrete Expedition: the development of the corridors must be accompanied by an integrated and sustainable vision
The development of the corridors must be accompanied by an integrated and sustainable vision, for better connectivity of the provinces of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, according to the Congolese President, at the opening, Thursday, 17 April 2025, of the 9th edition of the “Expo-Béton” forum in Lubumbashi, Haut-Katanga.“The development of the corridors must be accompanied by an integrated and sustainable vision.
I dream of a rail network from Greater Katanga to the Grand Kasai, the Grand Bandundu, Kinshasa, the central Kongo to the deep-water port of Banana,” said Félix Tshisekedi, stressing that “this backbone is a priority for our country, as it will strengthen internal connectivity and open up new economic opportunities.”
“In order to ensure the effectiveness and rigorous follow-up of these initiatives, I instruct the Government, under the authority of the Prime Minister, in close cooperation with my cabinet to set up a working group dedicated to coordinating and monitoring activities related to the Corridors,” he said before commenting on the formatting of a controlled urban planning favourable to economic development.
“Beyond infrastructure, we need to ensure harmonious development. Corridors must be accompanied by controlled urban planning with high-quality residential, commercial and public services, SMEs and Pmi to boost the local economy and create jobs,” he explained.
The Lobito Corridor a unique opportunity to capitalise
In addition, President Tshisekedi has returned to the corridor project under preparation between the DRC, Angola and zambia as a regional economic triggering model.
“A concrete example of this ambition is the Lobito Corridor, which I have been strongly practicing.
This project, the result of exemplary cooperation between the DRC, zambia and Angola, with the support of international partners, aims to build 1739 km of railways, including 427 km in our territory interconnected to a regional road network.
At the Lobito corridor summit, in the presence of the Heads of State of three countries and the former President of the United States, I recalled that this project goes beyond mere logistics.
This is a unique opportunity to strengthen regional integration by streamlining trade, boosting economic transformation by valuing our mineral and agricultural resources, and improving living conditions by developing modern infrastructure and community-based services,” he said.
“The Lobito corridor is a promise of the future for our entrepreneurs, our farmers and our youth. They will find opportunities for innovation and growth,” he also said.
For him, these corridors are not mere transport routes, they are vital routes for cultural economic integration, linking economic centres to regional and continental markets.
“They promote not only the smooth flow of goods and people, but above all the local transformation of our agricultural, mining and industrial products, as well as their flow to destinations such as the ports of the Atlantic and the Indian Ocean.
They attract investment, stimulate job creation and pave the way for modern governance for the well-being of our people.”
The President of the Concrete Expo, Jean Bamanisa, stressed that the question is no longer whether the DRC is rich, but how to transport, value and market effectively.
mediacongo
*To remind,
Lobito Corridor’s extension to Zambia backed by US and EU
Washington has added to its support for the Lobito Corridor by backing a new spur to north-western Zambia.With Brussels now also on board, western efforts to counter Chinese influence over critical minerals are gathering pace.
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