THE VOICE - WHAT IS THE REAL TRUTH BEHIND IT ? / GENERAL POLITICAL THREAD

[pow4ade]

Do you not recall AFR article headlines stating racism amongst holders? I am in no way suggesting that.

Umm, yes you are, the clear implication being you're concerned about this thread being perceived as racist and thus exploited by actors seeking our failure in the DRC.

Yet the day before this you ridiculed me for expressing similar misgivings around TSE commentary being used against us, namely nasty misogynistic abuse of an influential DRC politician:

That is so hilariously dumb.

To think a business deal in the billions is going to be derailed because of what someone who claims to be a holder on a forum that has tens of 1000s of posts in ridiculous.

You're either clutching at straws, dishonest or just really not thinking very hard.

Mate, you can't have it both ways.

 

[timb89]

Umm, yes you are, the clear implication being you're concerned about this thread being perceived as racist and thus exploited by actors seeking our failure in the DRC.

Yet the day before this you ridiculed me for expressing similar misgivings around TSE commentary being used against us, namely nasty misogynistic abuse of an influential DRC politician:

That is so hilariously dumb.

To think a business deal in the billions is going to be derailed because of what someone who claims to be a holder on a forum that has tens of 1000s of posts in ridiculous.

You're either clutching at straws, dishonest or just really not thinking very hard.

Mate, you can't have it both ways.

The story and its reaction surrounding DRC corruption is directly related to AVZ. Persons (man or woman) whose corruption result in the ongoing poverty of a people are free game for abuse. I'd lose happily money to not keep silent about that.

An entirely seperate politcal story to AVZ is what is, an entirely seperate political story.

Feel free to try again.

 

[RHyNO]

I am going to discuss some of your points...

1) Statement from the heart..

View The Statement - Uluru Statement from the Heart

Yes indeed, its condensed to a A4 sheet of paper, a 4.40 minute read , nicely put together, powerful, but........ambiguous, what is the detail that this statement is asking 97% of non indigenous people to vote for ?
The term " MAKARRATA" is used, what does that mean ?

What is a Makarrata? It's more than a synonym for treaty

Makarrata is much more than just a synonym for treaty. It is a complex Yolngu word describing a process of conflict resolution, peacemaking and justice.

www.abc.net.au

The term has many elements, in the main, its...

"The first one, and the main one, is peace after a dispute.

I am all for that for sure, lets ALL make peace as a united Australia and move on .

But Makarratta also means treaty / repatriation....sorry, thats where i have a problem....

2) Let me remind you of what Albanese has stated many times...

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/politics/albanese-says-he-recommits-to-the-uluru-statement-from-the-heart-in-full/video/5ee4fd326be69d1c7d4aa46b0

The Uluru statement clearly says..........Makarrata is another word for Treaty or agreement making. And it is the culmination of our agenda'."

Promises , promises, does that word have any relevance with politicians ?....

3) "Australia is far from colour blind and the only people saying that are wealthy white people "

No disrespect, but that statement is bullshit, i think in the main non indigenous respects indigenous culture and wants them to do well, work hard , rise above the past and thrive.....alot have and my complete respect goes to them,......however, alot havnt and still stuck in the past , thats their bad !

4) Australias GDP is $1.7 trillion, so 0.5% = 8.5 Billion.........thats a shit load of dough!!.

What would 97% of australias population think about 3% indigenous getting that nice whack of dough ? Is that fair ? Could that cause more friction than already exists ?

Could we trust the Makarrata commission to utilise that money to the betterment of their people or could it be another ATSIC ?

Geoff Clark to stand trial on fraud-related charges involving $2m

Former ATSIC chair Geoff Clark has been ordered to stand trial on 380 charges relating to allegations he abused his position at Indigenous organisations for his own gain.

www.abc.net.au

5) why are we constantly declaring war with China with whom we want to trade and work with.

Thats a excellent geopolitical question and one we should explore on this thread.


Food for thought.

imo

Good one mate. Good points the makaratta issue is significant. Concerning. Regarding the racism. I agree with you 100% and between you I ain’t white it’s just very difficult to hear credlin say it so ignorantly. I came up in the 80s and where I’m from the indigenous were having a very hard time. But you point out my biggest issue with the voice. Is this hanging on to the failings of the past. I say it like this. Here is a mountain of suffering to climb, it’s called life, but you’ll never be able to do it because you’ve got inter generational trauma and you are disadvantaged by your past. But try climb it. But you won’t be able to. Which is just the path to failure telling someone they can’t do it and they are excused from not doing it. Excusing crime. Excusing antisocial behaviour because of race.

Re China. Fuck me, a great place a great people, a beautiful ancient culture. Protecting themselves from the dominance of America. And we this mino in their region should be their best friend. Should be working with them to be a culture they love and desire. Not ever ever talking about war.

 

[pow4ade]

An entirely seperate politcal story to AVZ is what is, an entirely seperate political story.

Except it's not separate at all. Invoking the racism angle of the political story and referencing it to the AFR article renders your objection AVZ specific.

I'd lose happily money to not keep silent about that.

Alternatively you could donate that money to a Manono charity to placate your grievance. Then allow the co to fight the corruption strategically for the benefit of all shareholders. Its what we pay them for.

At the end of the day we're both concerned about adverse publicity being used against the co. Thus racism, misogyny, threats to people's families etc should not be excused or tolerated under the guise of fighting corruption. I won't keep silent about that.

 

[timb89]

Except it's not separate at all. Invoking the racism angle of the political story and referencing it to the AFR article renders your objection AVZ specific.

Alternatively you could donate that money to a Manono charity to placate your grievance. Then allow the co to fight the corruption strategically for the benefit of all shareholders. Its what we pay them for.

At the end of the day we're both concerned about adverse publicity being used against the co. Thus racism, misogyny, threats to people's families etc should not be excused or tolerated under the guise of fighting corruption. I won't keep silent about that.

The only thng that makes it AVZ specific is having it on the AVZ thread, which it doesn't need to be. Hence my comparison to abortion. Both political issues unrelated to AVZ. The only thing that would connect them is our choice to connect them.

The corrupt actions of a party that has directly affected AVZ is connected to AVZ. It's not a choice to connect this topic, the connection exists regardless of our commentary. The decision to not criticise this party because of the perception is weak.

 

[pow4ade]

The decision to not criticise this party because of the perception is weak.

Agreed, have been a critic myself. Equally you would agree that criticism resorting to racism, misogyny and vilification is counter-productive and cowardly.

 

[timb89]

Agreed, have been a critic myself. Equally you would agree that criticism resorting to racism, misogyny and vilification is counter-productive and cowardly.

I don't think they were resorting to misogyny and racism. They were vilifying a villain and treating them as scum, as would be fit for someone whose actions result in the continued exploitation of children in artisinal mines. They are free game at that point.

 

[BEISHA]

Good one mate. Good points the makaratta issue is significant. Concerning. Regarding the racism. I agree with you 100% and between you I ain’t white it’s just very difficult to hear credlin say it so ignorantly. I came up in the 80s and where I’m from the indigenous were having a very hard time. But you point out my biggest issue with the voice. Is this hanging on to the failings of the past. I say it like this. Here is a mountain of suffering to climb, it’s called life, but you’ll never be able to do it because you’ve got inter generational trauma and you are disadvantaged by your past. But try climb it. But you won’t be able to. Which is just the path to failure telling someone they can’t do it and they are excused from not doing it. Excusing crime. Excusing antisocial behaviour because of race.

Re China. Fuck me, a great place a great people, a beautiful ancient culture. Protecting themselves from the dominance of America. And we this mino in their region should be their best friend. Should be working with them to be a culture they love and desire. Not ever ever talking about war.

China. Fuck me, a great place a great people, a beautiful ancient culture. Protecting themselves from the dominance of America. And we this mino in their region should be their best friend.

A few things to say about that...

Havnt been to China, no doubt its a great place to visit, the Chinese people are indeed lovely, i have many of them as clients of mine........my refelection on China is based purely on the Govt....

I dont think China is protecting themselves from America, if anything, they are the aggressors, with multiple attempts to steal innovation that China doesnt possess, spy ballons, acting aggressively when US officials visit Taiwan and vice versa, allowing chinese citizens to travel globally while secretly knowing they could be spreading the COVID virus............list goes on

China / Australia relationship is one sided imo.............If Australia doesnt behave , China punish.

How dare Australia inquire as to where the origin of COVID come from in China to better prepare for pandemics in the future..

How dare Australia criticise China about the persecution of the Ughuars !

How dare Australia finally wise up and exclude China from taking TO or JV critical mineral projects within Australia ?

Dont get me wrong, Australia has done very well with trade in the past, but was way too reliant on them , but China wasnt reliant on Australia, infact, it has always been my belief that China trade with Australia was just self serving to realise a long held dream, to develop into the most powerful , dominant country in the world , military wise.

Yes, China use of Australias iron ore was used to build " ghost " cities for future population, but it was also used to develop war ships, submarines, military equipment, military bases in islands that dont belong to them within South china sea....

Australia is a mere pawn for China, we have resources they desire for ulterior purposes to challenge the US / WEST dominance and they are seeking out partners in crime with Russia / North Korea / Iran in the process.

China dislike our ANZUS treaty with the US, nor do they appreciate the stance towards them regards to Taiwan, a country they couldnt give a shit about except their thriving economy based on their global dominance in semi conductor innovation and production........something China dont have............so once again they will attempt to steal.

Make no mistake, if China decide to invade Taiwan, then they will be going to war with Australia as they will side with the US, infact, it could be the start of world war 3.

What business does China have being affiliated with Fiji / Soloman Islands ?

Why does China have spy boats hovering around our shore lines near sensitive combat locations ?

Does China harbour a desire to get close and invade Australia for the abundant mining resources we have ?

Australia are never going to be best friends with China , finally we are waking up to their aggressive motivations and must be pushed back.

just IMO

 

[BEISHA]

Why WA had to retreat on cultural heritage

The West Australian government is belatedly ditching its new cultural heritage laws after tripping badly on impact, and the debacle has damaged support for the Voice.

www.afr.com

The improvised WA Heritage laws legislated in 2021 and recently released has been a absolute disaster and has been rescinded within a month, I wonder, did Albanese have a word in Roger Cook ear to scrap it to avoid the association and further criticism of the up coming VOICE referendum ?

For once, a AFR article thats on the money....

 

[RHyNO]

China. Fuck me, a great place a great people, a beautiful ancient culture. Protecting themselves from the dominance of America. And we this mino in their region should be their best friend.

A few things to say about that...

Havnt been to China, no doubt its a great place to visit, the Chinese people are indeed lovely, i have many of them as clients of mine........my refelection on China is based purely on the Govt....

I dont think China is protecting themselves from America, if anything, they are the aggressors, with multiple attempts to steal innovation that China doesnt possess, spy ballons, acting aggressively when US officials visit Taiwan and vice versa, allowing chinese citizens to travel globally while secretly knowing they could be spreading the COVID virus............list goes on

China / Australia relationship is one sided imo.............If Australia doesnt behave , China punish.

How dare Australia inquire as to where the origin of COVID come from in China to better prepare for pandemics in the future..

How dare Australia criticise China about the persecution of the Ughuars !

How dare Australia finally wise up and exclude China from taking TO or JV critical mineral projects within Australia ?

Dont get me wrong, Australia has done very well with trade in the past, but was way too reliant on them , but China wasnt reliant on Australia, infact, it has always been my belief that China trade with Australia was just self serving to realise a long held dream, to develop into the most powerful , dominant country in the world , military wise.

Yes, China use of Australias iron ore was used to build " ghost " cities for future population, but it was also used to develop war ships, submarines, military equipment, military bases in islands that dont belong to them within South china sea....

Australia is a mere pawn for China, we have resources they desire for ulterior purposes to challenge the US / WEST dominance and they are seeking out partners in crime with Russia / North Korea / Iran in the process.

China dislike our ANZUS treaty with the US, nor do they appreciate the stance towards them regards to Taiwan, a country they couldnt give a shit about except their thriving economy based on their global dominance in semi conductor innovation and production........something China dont have............so once again they will attempt to steal.

Make no mistake, if China decide to invade Taiwan, then they will be going to war with Australia as they will side with the US, infact, it could be the start of world war 3.

What business does China have being affiliated with Fiji / Soloman Islands ?

Why does China have spy boats hovering around our shore lines near sensitive combat locations ?

Does China harbour a desire to get close and invade Australia for the abundant mining resources we have ?

Australia are never going to be best friends with China , finally we are waking up to their aggressive motivations and must be pushed back.

just IMO

All good points mate. But what business do we or America have in Solomon Islands? Additionally COVID while from a Chinese lab was in fact engineered by Fauci for the Americans, all public knowledge, he was making that shit in the states until the CIA made him take it to China because of the danger, a lab leak all be it in a shitty Chinese lab. I’m just being devils avacado really. I know we are all afraid of eating dumplings and not hamburgers. But I suggest we all get used to the chilli. It’s gonna be a long century and an economy like the USA doesn’t stand a chance.

The idea that we would fight on behalf of the USA to protect Taiwan from becoming China is scary and inevitable, but it doesn’t mean I have to agree with it. I lived and worked in USA and I love the place and the culture above and beyond China. But geologically you cannot deny the perils.

 

[BEISHA]

All good points mate. But what business do we or America have in Solomon Islands? Additionally COVID while from a Chinese lab was in fact engineered by Fauci for the Americans, all public knowledge, he was making that shit in the states until the CIA made him take it is because of the danger, a lab leak all be it in a shitty Chinese lab. I’m just being devils avacado really. I know we are all afraid of eating dumplings and not hamburgers. But I suggest we all get used to the chilli. It’s gonna be a long century and an economy like the USA doesn’t stand a chance.

Australia has been associated with the soloman Islands since the 1950s, its relationship has had its up and downs, but never the less, Australia has donated alot of money to assist their development and they are our pacific neighbour .

Australia–Solomon Islands relations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

China is not a neighbour, nor the US, so both have no business there , except US see China involvement with the Solomans as a gate way for them to establish a military port , therefore a security risk to the Pacific region in general, so none too happy.

Interesting theory about Gauci and COVID 19 development............got a link ?

 

[RHyNO]

NIH Documents Provide New Evidence U.S. Funded Gain-of-Function Research in Wuhan

The National Institutes of Health-funded experiment in Wuhan, China, posed biosafety risks but did not cause the Covid-19 pandemic, scientists say.

theintercept.com

It’s in much more reputable publications as well however I heard it from Kennedy on the Russel Brand stay free podcast. Which is really a fantastic source of truths. Of course they say they didn’t create the pandemic. It originated in a wet market. From a pangolin or a raccoon dog. In the same city where they were doing these exact studies. I mean the odds???

 

[BEISHA]

@Penskefile @WPM60

Happy to chat here about politics , especially Trump.

No judgement, no disrespect, just chewing the fat.

I am game, are you ?

 

[Penskefile]

@Penskefile @WPM60

Happy to chat here about politics , especially Trump.

No judgement, no disrespect, just chewing the fat.

I am game, are you ?

Cheers, thanks for that.
Certainly up for a discussion. What say you?

 

[hedrox]

 

[BEISHA]

Cheers, thanks for that.
Certainly up for a discussion. What say you?

What say me ?

Well lets just start by giving you some back ground of my political persuasion which might give you a idea where i am coming from.
First of all , i have been a liberal voter all my life , i am a business man, i believe small business is the engine room for any country and need to be supported, i also believe liberal party are better at managing money, i also believe that the leader of a political party has to be of good character, needs to be strong but fair to all and needs to govern with the country best interest at all times.

I am also a climate change believer, the world needs clean energy to cool the planet down , to soothe the violent weather patterns that we are experiencing , so future generations can can continue to live their lives in relative comfort.

However, that all being said, the last election i swung away from liberal, i thought the Morrison government performed well getting us thru Covid and being strong to China, managing the economy well but thought their climate change policies were too slow , not proactive enuff, the handling of Brittany Higgins rape allegations were horrible plus Morrison was becoming a control freak so I voted Albanese labour. I also voted labour Mark Mcgowan in the state election too.

These days , i consider myself a swing voter.

Unfortunately, Albanese performance the last 4 years has been horrible, " The Voice " was a disaster, waste of money and divided the country further, immigration is out of control thus making the supply v demand for housing out of sinc, resulting in outrageous house price increases and blow out rental hikes which has resulted in future generations to be completely priced out of the housing market. Albanese attempts to quell inflation compared to other countries is also a big fail , cost of living in general is killing average australians plus his green energy wind farm policies are outrageously expensive and ineffective, so i will be voting back to Liberals next election, primarily on the back of the nuclear policy alternative, but also because Dutton was tough on immigration and to China too.

So there you go, thats where i stand philosophically

So how does that translate to my attitude towards Trump ?

Well first of all, i want to state that i am not completely anti Trump, there are a few things i agree with him on, they are.....

a) Immigration.........its out of control, needs to be addressed urgently, but i dont agree with his method

b) tough attitude towards China

c) Pro protecting American jobs.

d) NATO needs to increase their funding on defence, not relying on the US.

Unfortunately tho, cons weigh out the pros big time for me

a) Trump is not of good character, he is a convicted felon via Stormy Daniels and real estate fraud, has alot of other criminal charges pending too, very divisive , misogynistic, climate change denier, how on earth he is the leader of the republican movement is beyond me, if he was australian, wouldnt of got thru the screening process.
Lets also dont pretend that Trump doesnt have cognitive issues either aka Biden.

b) Pro oiler not EV. Potentially could over rule Democrat green energy policies and de rail efforts to reverse the climate change crisis. How on earth he is in cohoots with Elon , i will never know, I assume Elon has the attitude " keeping your enemies " close, but its fucking weird never the less.

c) His over turning of Roe v Wade abortion policy is abhorent, his number 1 achilles heel. He also seeks to restrict contraception as well, which is just beyond belief

d) Trump anti Nato...potential to separate. Disturbing, US doesnt have the capability to win a war against China by themselves, never lone a China / Russia / North Korea / Iran collaboration, US need Nato alliance big time!

e) Trumps " love " of Putin is disturbing. Trump has visions of being a dictator aka the " project 2025 narrative " What the dumb cunt doesnt realise is, he is a mere puppet for the Putin cause.

f) Trumps tax policy overall would be damaging for the economy

Trump’s Tax and Tariff Ideas: Details & Analysis

We estimate Trump’s proposed tariffs and partial retaliation from all trading partners would together offset more than two-thirds of the long-run economic benefit of his proposed tax cuts.

taxfoundation.org

g) Trumps tariff policies could create a global cold war

I will finish this post by stating that when Joe Biden administration commenced government in 2020, they overwhelmingly conquered Covid ( which Trump failed miserably ), created one of the strongest economies in US history, stock markets are at all time highs and the cost of living crisis has been abated getting inflation back in the 2 - 3% bracket once again and accordingly, reserve bank has reduced interest rates by 50 basis points as a result. Normally in this case, it should be a lay down misere that the democrat party should be re elected, the fact that the upcoming election polls are extremely tight is fucking puzzling to say the least.

I do understand that immigration has been the achilles heel for the democrats, plus the inordinate funding contributions given to Ukraine to combat the war against Russia and the funding of Israel to combat Hamas has created issues, but do we honestly believe Trump could diffuse those wars in " one day " as he boldly predicts ?

No one wants a world war 3, so what are the solutions there ?

Allow Putin to conquer Ukraine and galvanise him to bully other neighbouring countries ?

Certainly US could consider withdrawing arms to Israel for sure, as Israel are out of control in their retaliation to Hamas, the destruction of landscape , 45000+ deaths of mainly innocent palestinian people, a complete humanity crisis on our hands is a gross over reach in my opinion to the 1200 israel captures, but by limiting arms to Israel potentially puts the strong bilateral relations with the US since 1948 in jeopardy and that could have long term regional peace issues going forward.

Wars are terrible events, unlikely any administration is going to fix them in a day lol.

Anyway, i have written a novel, what say you ?

Others are welcome to the conversation too.

 

[Mickyb64]

Gents, watch the ENTIRE Joe Rogan podcasts with Trump, Vance and Musk. If you still have issues with Trump, I'm happy to discuss. If you can't be bothered watching then don't bother replying.

 

[Bray]

Trump is a character, like anyone in life he has done tremendously stupid things, but atleast you know what he’s done and where he stands.

I’m backing him for a win