BRN Discussion Ongoing

[Bobbygant]

I think we all love BrainChips tech but the issue a lot don’t get is that Akida is an enabler, enabling things built incorporating it to have potentially far greater possibilities - i.e. Akida would play a supporting role to the Nvidia supercomputer mentioned as the principle in MB.OS but Mercedes won’t likely mention BrainChip or Akida when talking up their latest concept (maybe they’ll prove me wrong?); it’d kind of be like somebody spruking the benefits of using a particular bolt to make the latest ship built more seaworthy, who would be interested (apart from shareholders)?. At the AGM there was a question raised about whether we would ever see ‘Akida inside’ like ‘Intel inside’ as a way of putting us out there and the answer from someone was something like Akida technology will rest so deeply in products as a part of something that is apart of something else that that would just not make any sense. I think it will never be that obvious where we sit in the scheme of things but if everything goes to plan the balance sheet should finish up stating our ubiquity. AIMO.

Why can’t the bolt manufacturer talk it up?

 

[skutza]

Is it possible that they ( some companies ) don’t have to pay an upfront IP fee and pay more through royalties?

That's the million dollar question. But as i posted a while back, I'd be pissed if i handed of 2 mill and others just had to pay a higher royalty.

 

[Akida27]

Quick question is all the info about Merc at this motor show out already? Given it doesn’t start till tonight wouldn’t they want to wait to potentially release more details until the presentations start? Unless they have to reveal everything before it starts?

 

[HopalongPetrovski]

Why can’t the bolt manufacturer talk it up?

I'll bet you there's a forum or chat group of bolt enthusiasts somewhere, heatedly talking up the merits of left vs right handed threads, head shapes and hardening techniques used and don't get me started on imperial vs metric gauges!!!

 

[Diogenese]

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[Fullmoonfever]

We don't have a license through them either? Do either deal with mega chips?

Gotta remember this car is not much diff to the EQXX in so much as they are both concepts.

The key diff is that the EQXX was a proving vehicle where MB threw essentially the kitchen sink of tech at it to show their capabilities.

Given BRN never had, on the surface, a formal agreement I would suggest that the EQXX was merely mutually beneficial for BRN to showcase their tech...no more no less at this point imo.

Suspect no $ changed hands hence no material Ann via the ASX either at the time from memory.

We could have provided anything gratis and in return we get the publicity and POC in an end product which is worth something, just not monetary at the time.

The CLA is slated for production around late 24 as I understand and we know from job ads etc that MB are still interested and working on neuromorphic.

Happy to be wrong but as I said a few days ago, I didn't expect we'd be in this release.

To me it's bang for buck and goes back to BRN saying that AKD1000 didn't get traction as other products available that were fit for purpose enough.

Would probably be much easier to have NVIDIA whole system rather than try integrate one small SNN for a wake word or one component when the return would not be worth the investment.

Eg. How much return will they get in power for the road going car and would it make much of difference overall to their vehicle buyers at this time?

Makes a diff to a proving vehicle showcasing their future obviously.

Now that's said, it doesn't discount that we could end up in the production MBOS by the time the CLA rolls off the line.

Personally suspect they are trying to explore the full capabilities of Akida via 1500 and 2.0 to provide that bang for buck in say, infotainment, drivetrain (vibrations etc), battery management, maybe LIDAR integration and wherever else.

 

[Rise from the ashes]

I suppose I'll keep sharing until zee opens my email and pushes the button for me.

So we'll be able to watch Peter's and co' dream that has become a reality in action.

 

[Diogenese]

In my opinion I do believe MB is using our tech to various degrees to save energy in CLA and so forth in the new MB.os .

They are deeply involved in Nueromorphic computing with there recent jobs and posts.

One issue that will stop BRN getting mentioned is Navdia. MB is getting their super computer that is likely specially made for them to the highest standard possible.

We also now that word is slowly comming out Akida can out perform a Navdia GPU as stated by Tata recently. This would not go over well for MB as we know Akida could displace Navdia in some way.

To ensure parties are happy This is how it was felt with.

We still display MB on our website if we are comercial BRN will get money they are happy as it will be significant for us. MB improved there Product and Navdia still feels superior.

These are my thoughts why MB will not mention Akida.

It does not mean we are not working or supply them to some extent.

Also if it was mentioned then MB would be bombarded by many of the chipper to get rid of the GPU use Akida on its own lol. That would not look good for Navdia or MB for image if I simple folk like myself see that then I'm sure MB has thought this out also.

BRN so be happy with the crumbs for the moment.

Don't agree - MB are at the motor show to prove they have the latest and greatest technology.

It's early days at the show, and I think MB will want to go out not with a whimper but a bang.

 

[Schnitzel lover]

Personally I’m not expecting revenue the next quarter, but the December quarter yes, from Megachips, Renesas and possibly Valeo? I’m not sure of when Brainchip gets paid by Valeo, the latest I’d suspect would be the March quarter which of course is announced in April.

By December we should have a license or two which then we would have the licensing payments as well show up.

Thanks for your response Jessie. That is thereabouts alongside my baseline expectations for Brainchip to achieve by the end of the current financial year.

The sweet spot for me is seeing royalty revenue in the financials. That gives more credence to Brainchip as a player to be taken seriously, both in the tech sector and also in the investment sector.

 

[Mccabe84]

Don't agree - MB are at the motor show to prove they have the latest and greatest technology.

It's early days at the show, and I think MB will want to go out not with a whimper but a bang.

My thoughts are MB are there to promote themselves not another company. So I’m not expecting anything about BRN from the car show

 

[Schnitzel lover]

Ok so if MB are using Brainchip, who have they bought it through? They didn't pay us a license fee, so they can't be getting it from us directly?

Wouldn't it be Valeo, the European Connection?

 

[Dozzaman1977]

I suppose I'll keep sharing until zee opens my email and pushes the button for me.
View attachment 43921
So we'll be able to watch Peter's and co' dream that has become a reality in action.

You will be waiting a while for zeebot.
I asked him to cancel my account 2 weeks ago..... no reply !!

 

[miaeffect]

I suppose I'll keep sharing until zee opens my email and pushes the button for me.
View attachment 43921
So we'll be able to watch Peter's and co' dream that has become a reality in action.

Told Zee to ignore you

 

[Diogenese]

Yes, think you are hitting the nail on the head here for where we are at, at present.
Further developments, iterations and generations may see us come more to the fore but for now, as you say, we are more of an enabler rather than centre stage. We holders are like proud parents expecting our children to be adored by everyone else and seen with the natural conceit of the progenitor. We'll crawl before we'll run and then fly. Development takes as long as it takes.

PS Sorry to see Rise from the Ashes depart.
Hope all is well and that he returns to us soon.

Bring It BrainChip!

Mercedes have already touted their use of Akida in the EQXX.

Akida will be core to their AI/ML in the CLA - driver recognition, voice recognition, in-cabin monitoring, driver alertness monitoring.

And Scala 3?*

Contrary to that, a couple of years ago, our sales people were shying away from using the term "neuromorphic" because it frightened the horses. But now AI is all the rage. Surely Mercedes will hitch a ride.

*Edit: Luminar not Scala 3.

 

[Diogenese]

I'll bet you there's a forum or chat group of bolt enthusiasts somewhere, heatedly talking up the merits of left vs right handed threads, head shapes and hardening techniques used and don't get me started on imperial vs metric gauges!!!

A riveting discussion!

 

[Quiltman]

My Father-in-Law is a professor of physics. He worked on creating a vacuum between two panes of glass for 20 years. The IP was all about understanding the physics around the pressure points where the pillars join the panes. Several papers, challenging the laws of physics… all way, way over my head.
Eventually the science led to a commercial outcome with a Japanese glass company, generating royalties as the product went to market. No mention, other than initial white papers from the company, has ever been made of the IP of the incredible science behind their new product.
All marketing material for the glass company is aimed at the end benefit for the consumer, not the deep science behind it.
The only visibility of the IP being commercially available … the financials of the entity my Father-in-Law once worked for ( he is now retired).

Sound familiar !

 

[Diogenese]

Gotta remember this car is not much diff to the EQXX in so much as they are both concepts.

The key diff is that the EQXX was a proving vehicle where MB threw essentially the kitchen sink of tech at it to show their capabilities.

Given BRN never had, on the surface, a formal agreement I would suggest that the EQXX was merely mutually beneficial for BRN to showcase their tech...no more no less at this point imo.

Suspect no $ changed hands hence no material Ann via the ASX either at the time from memory.

We could have provided anything gratis and in return we get the publicity and POC in an end product which is worth something, just not monetary at the time.

The CLA is slated for production around late 24 as I understand and we know from job ads etc that MB are still interested and working on neuromorphic.

Happy to be wrong but as I said a few days ago, I didn't expect we'd be in this release.

To me it's bang for buck and goes back to BRN saying that AKD1000 didn't get traction as other products available that were fit for purpose enough.

Would probably be much easier to have NVIDIA whole system rather than try integrate one small SNN for a wake word or one component when the return would not be worth the investment.

Eg. How much return will they get in power for the road going car and would it make much of difference overall to their vehicle buyers at this time?

Makes a diff to a proving vehicle showcasing their future obviously.

Now that's said, it doesn't discount that we could end up in the production MBOS by the time the CLA rolls off the line.

Personally suspect they are trying to explore the full capabilities of Akida via 1500 and 2.0 to provide that bang for buck in say, infotainment, drivetrain (vibrations etc), battery management, maybe LIDAR integration and wherever else.

Hi Fmf,

I imagine there would have been an R&D contract including MB, Brainchip and Nvidia, redolent with NDAs, and some money paid by MB for our services in developing the system and providing the chips.

Remember our relationship with Nvidia was said to be more partners than competitors. So no up front licence fee, but a share of profit?

As to only using Nvidia, I think Marcus Schafer (or Magnus Osteberg) mentioned SoC's in his motor show linkedin post.

 

[Fullmoonfever]

Hi Fmf,

I imagine there would have been an R&D contract including MB, Brainchip and Nvidia, redolent with NDAs, and some money paid by MB for our services in developing the system and providing the chips.

Remember our relationship with Nvidia was said to be more partners than competitors. So no up front licence fee, but a share of profit?

Hopefully.

That's the prob with the NDAs etc as we know.

Is all conjecture without formal notification unfortunately.

 

[Calsco]

I looked at the program timetable for the auto show and MB is presenting multiple times throughout the day however there is one on at 11am that is about “pioneering technology” this is the description of the lecture.

Lecture Description

With the power of innovation more decisive than it has ever been, Mercedes-Benz continues to electrify and elevate the customer experience based on a foundation of pioneering technology. This talk explains how, with a deep dive into a close-to-production concept that provides an insight into a new model family. Engineered on the new Mercedes-Benz Modular Architecture (MMA) and the company’s unique in-house operating system “MB.OS”, it draws on important learnings from the VISION EQXX and takes major strides in the digital experience. The talk also explores other key areas of pioneering technology that place Mercedes-Benz at the forefront of developments in infotainment, automated driving and charging.

 

[Diogenese]

My Father-in-Law is a professor of physics. He worked on creating a vacuum between two panes of glass for 20 years. The IP was all about understanding the physics around the pressure points where the pillars join the panes. Several papers, challenging the laws of physics… all way, way over my head.
Eventually the science led to a commercial outcome with a Japanese glass company, generating royalties as the product went to market. No mention, other than initial white papers from the company, has ever been made of the IP of the incredible science behind their new product.
All marketing material for the glass company is aimed at the end benefit for the consumer, not the deep science behind it.
The only visibility of the IP being commercially available … the financials of the entity my Father-in-Law once worked for ( he is now retired).

Sound familiar !

Hi Quiltman,

I do have a recollection of an article about that or a similar development many moons ago. Something about getting the surface perfectly flat on a molecular scale.

But AI is in a different boat - everybody knows about it, not just us geeks.