I would expect royalties would get paid from megachips (or similar) upon informing BRN how many IP devices they would like to put Akida in. I would not think that BRN would link a royalty payment to an actual device being sold to an end consumer. If for instance megachips overpriced the final product and didn’t sell any, this would be a megachips issue and not a BRN problem as such as it would be 100% outside of BRN’s influence. Just my thoughts….
BRN Discussion Ongoing
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alwaysgreen
Top 20
So now that we are a partner of Intel Foundry and ARM, how does it work if say Lenovo want to add Akida to one of their chips for their upcoming laptop range?
Does Intel just add it to their chip run for Lenovo, Lenovo pays them royalties and Intel pays Brainchip? Is there a license fee associated (Intel to Brainchip, Lenovo to Brainchip etc)?
Sorry, I did try and DYOR on it but I couldn't find any solid information.
Does Intel just add it to their chip run for Lenovo, Lenovo pays them royalties and Intel pays Brainchip? Is there a license fee associated (Intel to Brainchip, Lenovo to Brainchip etc)?
Sorry, I did try and DYOR on it but I couldn't find any solid information.
alwaysgreen
Top 20
I would think the signing fee is variable and the nitty gritty detail of their agreements would be commercial in confidence. The contracts would be negotiated depending on no. of nodes used; e.g. Renesas licences 2 nodes. I think there was also a factor of how many different “Devices’ you would use it in; e.g. widget vs phone, vs EV vs smart speaker. I don’t think it is a licence once, put in every device arrangement. You might need multiple licences to put it in multiple different devices.
The price of IP varied depending on what it could do. In this case the uniqueness, first to market, best in class, power saving advantage etc would all work in Brainchip’s favour when negotiating a price. In saying that you could hold out for a top dollar price and end up with royalties of nil because you couldn’t work out a deal that is cost effective for the manufacturer.
I haven’t looked it up and but I recall AM or PVDM during an interview indicating a chip (back when that was an option) was going to be around US $25. A chip would have had all 64 nodes. Therefore 2 nodes would be much cheaper, possibly less than a $1 but I couldn’t begin to put an accurate price on it.
Renesas sells millions and millions of microprocessors and is in the top 5 manufacturers in the world. My recollection is the device including Akida will be available mid year so I would expect royalties to come in after that. It’s not long to wait!
It’s a bit dated but here’s some figures from Renesas:
It’s been discussed numerous times but the contract can be anything lawful both companies agree to. E.g. royalties might not be paid until units are made and sold. But the good news is that once revenue does start coming in it should then continue for many years to come. Over time and multiple customers the revenue flow will build as per Brainchips 2021 conceptual revenue chart from their AGM. They are following their plan.
View attachment 27751
My view is that even if there is no revenue for the next 2 quarters but it kicks in later in the year for me it doesn’t matter. My expectation is that the SP from now will double or triple by the end of the year so 200-300 % is far superior what I would get from the banks!
If for example Qualcomm did use Akida (to complement Prophesee) instead of their current technology in the Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 then that forecast would get blown out of the water!
Fullmoonfever
Top 20
Obviously the consensus appears to be that we won't see much new $ flowing in this qtrly and this may turn out to be correct.
From memory there was some residual carried forward from last year which may show up you would think plus anything new would be a nice bonus.
Regardless of what we may be expecting, we know it is the wider mkt that will dictate how the SP reacts and I realistically expect the vultures to grind it further downwards if we can't show something positive trending.
What I am hopeful for is a joint release of the qtrly with maybe confirmation of say Akida 2.0 release and info re transformers etc to offset any mkt reservations with the qtrly.
From memory there was some residual carried forward from last year which may show up you would think plus anything new would be a nice bonus.
Regardless of what we may be expecting, we know it is the wider mkt that will dictate how the SP reacts and I realistically expect the vultures to grind it further downwards if we can't show something positive trending.
What I am hopeful for is a joint release of the qtrly with maybe confirmation of say Akida 2.0 release and info re transformers etc to offset any mkt reservations with the qtrly.
Perhaps
Regular
Maybe never. Do you know all parts of your smartphone by name?
Techinvestor17
Regular
I think it will be obvious by the products description
Techinvestor17
Regular
Same, im more interested in the future product roadmap. Unfortunately the share price is going to get hammered most likely the same as the last quarterly and to compound that will be the dropping out of the asx200.
Bravo
If ARM was an arm, BRN would be its biceps💪!
FYI .....Old news
In a key development for the processor’s commercialisation, BrainChip has signed an intellectual property licensing agreement with major semiconductor manufacturer Renesas Electronics America. Under the agreement, Renesas will gain the single-use, royalty-bearing, worldwide design license for the rights to use the Akida IP, as well as connected support services from BrainChip.
In exchange, BrainChip can expect ongoing royalty payments, as well as further conditional payments based on the volume of processors sold.
Stable Genius
Regular
Hi TC,
I think this is the answer: Just like in the Castle:
Section 51(xxxi) of the Constitution currently allows the Parliament to make laws for the acquisition of property on just terms from any state or person for any purpose in respect of which the Parliament has power to make laws.
https://www.aph.gov.au › pubs › pr...
'Property' and acquisition on just terms
I think it would have to be exceptional circumstances though and you could argue through the courts to be fairly compensated. We’re not in China!
Hi Tech,IP Licenses are Brainchips play first and foremost, as without them being signed there is no royalty stream..end of story.
We are all aware or should be that the royalty stream is where the real revenue is long term, I also only mentioned our EAP customers, as in
at least 8 Tier 1 companies, not small fry, why won't they commit do you think?
"This year will be about hopefully some more licenses and some engineering fees", that's exactly what I am referring to, I appreciate
your view, but you appear to have got caught up on my word "play"
"Brainchips play are royalties, not IP licenses." We are following the ARM business model as a supplier of IP, that's our "initial play"
I do agree with your view on the other matters that you raised, cheers.
Tech
I’m only guessing and I figure the answer to your question is probably very complicated. I think part of the answer comes from when the early EAPs were established. During this time Brainchip was in a very early phase of its development and still trying to figure out the right path forward. In some ways I think the early EAPs might still be experiencing privledges that new customers are not. Since then, we have seen a lot of expert staff hired and a much clearer strategy put in place which I think will put a lot more focus on closing sales. I get the gut feeling that our original EAPs like Ford and Valeo are in the enviable position of being able to wait for Akida 2.0 before they step out from their NDA.
There is also our growing ecosystem of parters that I find interesting. I wonder whether some of our early EAPs have now been passed onto our partners to sign commercial contracts. I have no idea about how these kind of arrangements work but I hope we can get some clarity at the next AGM.
Fullmoonfever
Top 20
Was having a look around on Prophesee info and came across the CVPR from 2021.
Understand this is prior to the release of our partnership news though I believe we were in discussions with them back in 2021 from memory.
Anyway, link to the program which includes presenters slides and video recording links. May or may not have been covered previously.
Haven't had chance to review / watch as yet but posting fwiw to kill some time while we wait for the qtrly and hopefully an add on Ann.
Couple that could be interesting is the one by Luca at Prophesee and also Greg Cohen at WSU where he discusses their space camera but also the Foosball which we all saw in an article a while ago which mentioned Akida & Intel neuromorphic.
The slides from Luca, I did look at, and was curious on the last several applications listed. The ones prior was "public" and generally had the partner listed whereas the last ones (where I believe we could assist with) were listed as undisclosed at that time. Couple example snips below & hoping we're well advanced with testing / integration with Prophesee.
Understand this is prior to the release of our partnership news though I believe we were in discussions with them back in 2021 from memory.
Anyway, link to the program which includes presenters slides and video recording links. May or may not have been covered previously.
Haven't had chance to review / watch as yet but posting fwiw to kill some time while we wait for the qtrly and hopefully an add on Ann.
Couple that could be interesting is the one by Luca at Prophesee and also Greg Cohen at WSU where he discusses their space camera but also the Foosball which we all saw in an article a while ago which mentioned Akida & Intel neuromorphic.
The slides from Luca, I did look at, and was curious on the last several applications listed. The ones prior was "public" and generally had the partner listed whereas the last ones (where I believe we could assist with) were listed as undisclosed at that time. Couple example snips below & hoping we're well advanced with testing / integration with Prophesee.
CVPR 2021 Workshop on Event-based Vision
tub-rip.github.io
Totally. Unless there is a known level of revenue attributable, it's not material...
I think you will find that the license fee only applies to what the BRN client can sell.
I guess the bottom line is that we all hope it becomes so compelling to have akida ip in you average CPU, that it get's put in their just in case it's needed.
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equanimous
Norse clairvoyant shapeshifter goddess
With the vibration monitoring you will be able to attach that sensor to a cricket bat, baseball bat, tennis racket and get instant notification when you hit the sweet spot for training. It will eventually be able to detect a persons emotions and irregular heart beats via a phone.Was having a look around on Prophesee info and came across the CVPR from 2021.
Understand this is prior to the release of our partnership news though I believe we were in discussions with them back in 2021 from memory.
Anyway, link to the program which includes presenters slides and video recording links. May or may not have been covered previously.
Haven't had chance to review / watch as yet but posting fwiw to kill some time while we wait for the qtrly and hopefully an add on Ann.
Couple that could be interesting is the one by Luca at Prophesee and also Greg Cohen at WSU where he discusses their space camera but also the Foosball which we all saw in an article a while ago which mentioned Akida & Intel neuromorphic.
The slides from Luca, I did look at, and was curious on the last several applications listed. The ones prior was "public" and generally had the partner listed whereas the last ones (where I believe we could assist with) were listed as undisclosed at that time. Couple example snips below & hoping we're well advanced with testing / integration with Prophesee.
CVPR 2021 Workshop on Event-based Vision
tub-rip.github.io
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I wander how professor Barry Marshall is doing these days??
Fullmoonfever
Top 20
Couldn't recall if posted prev and tbh didn't search.
Wonder how the update mid Dec re Transformers fits?
Is it to do with interface of third party models or to with ours or combination or...??
Might need @Diogenese thoughts if not already provided b4.
Compare
ktsiknos-brainchip released this Dec 14, 2022
2.2.6-doc-1
d334eea
Wonder how the update mid Dec re Transformers fits?
Is it to do with interface of third party models or to with ours or combination or...??
Might need @Diogenese thoughts if not already provided b4.
Upgrade to akida/cnn2snn 2.2.6 and akida_models 1.1.8
LatestCompare
2.2.6-doc-1
d334eea
Update akida and cnn2snn to version 2.2.6
New features
- [akida] Upgrade to quantizeml 0.0.13
- [akida] Attention layer
- [akida] Identify AKD500 devices
- [engine] Move mesh scan to host library
API changes
- [engine] toggle_learn must be called instead of program(p,learn_enabled)
- [engine] set_batch_size allows to preallocate inputs
Bug fixes
- [engine] Memory can grow indefinitely if queueing is faster than processing
Update akida_models to 1.1.8
- updated CNN2SNN minimal required version to 2.2.6 and QuantizeML to 0.0.13
- VWW model and training pipeline refactored and aligned with TinyML
- Layer names in almost all models have been updated in preparation for quantization with QuantizeML
- Tabular data models and tools have been removed from the package
- Transformers pretrained models updated to 4-bits
- Introduced calibration utils in training toolset
- KWS and ImageNet training scripts now offer a "calibrate" CLI action
- ImageNet training script will now automatically restore the best weights after training
Fullmoonfever
Top 20
Another item maybe or maybe not posted but I haven't seen it myself.
There was a conference Nov last year in Syd and I see a team from BRN did a presso as below.
Haven't tried to search the paper yet.
Appears based on Akidanet models for agri crop / weed ID at the edge.
There was a conference Nov last year in Syd and I see a team from BRN did a presso as below.
Haven't tried to search the paper yet.
Appears based on Akidanet models for agri crop / weed ID at the edge.
Fullmoonfever
Top 20
Just found the connection.
From memory I think the award that Vi got was discussed previously which relates back to that presso.
Defence Science and Technology Group (DSTG) on LinkedIn: DHSS 2022 - Call for Abstracts
Hurry! Abstracts for the Defence Human Sciences Symposium (DHSS) are due by Monday 15 August. DHSS is the key forum for sharing your ideas on applying human…
Vladsblood
Regular
Over one month now and no updates so hopefully they are saving some sweet surprises for the 4C.
Not too much expected though until agm presso.
For what we’re holding in our collective hands we do have an extremely small MC atm,but…when our Board releases our true numbers/positions/partnerships $$$$$ one way is only up many multiples of our minnow MC that we are at currently.
Nice when we are 10x20x40x 60x plus and only maybe 2/3 more years. Worth the waiting for sure. Vlad
Not too much expected though until agm presso.
For what we’re holding in our collective hands we do have an extremely small MC atm,but…when our Board releases our true numbers/positions/partnerships $$$$$ one way is only up many multiples of our minnow MC that we are at currently.
Nice when we are 10x20x40x 60x plus and only maybe 2/3 more years. Worth the waiting for sure. Vlad
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