How can there be an ICSID ruling when the first hearing of our ICSID case is not until June ??
AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
- Start date
Mr Inappropriate
Regular
@SilentOne, I emailed the PM 12-15 months ago (along with other cabinet ministers, australian and US institutions). it took a couple of months to hear back from the PM’s office.
You’ll get a response eventually that will mention support by the Australian Embassy in Zimbabwe. Don’t expect anything of substance to be mentioned.
Mr I.
Stockinvesting might have meant the ICC not ICSID . I could be wrong .
Remark
Top 20
I'm thinking you may be full of shit? IMO of course...
Mute22
Regular
No.
Felix does not care what his subordinates or corrupt offices underneath him are engaged in. It's a literal cabal where they all have blackmail material on each other for mutually assured destruction.
The only path forward for us will be through the courts so he can absolve himself from responsibility. I am adamant we are in this for the long haul now as we drag everybody kicking and screaming along the way.
Even then, we are probably years away, if ever of us recovering value. I don't see why a negotiated outcome is any more likely now with CATH involved, these people are operating on spite and are individually untouchable. Sure, you could argue with a negotiated settlement maybe the we drop the case and the corruption is swept under the rug. I don't think their arrogance will allow it.
We will win in the courts, and probably take years to negotiate some kind of lackluster compensation, meanwhile those who are corrupt will leave the country or be untouchables who will deflect blame to the state while pocketing millions - they can't lose, so why negotiate?
If you think the locals care about corruption, it's basically expected. They won't give two craps if international investors lose out on mining fancy rocks for expensive cars while they are being invaded by Rwanda and worrying where their next meal is going to come from.
The locals are the only ones that can change the cycle of corruption with around 100 million of them. If the don’t have the will or are to stupid to understand why they are living the life they are then one can only conclude they are happy with their dung hole.
Trillions in minerals being led by a bunch of dumb slimy low life scum that should face the firing squad for the deceit of their people.
I take your point Bonsior, however, I don’t believe the flow of information about the level of corruption in the DRC would reach the masses. If the level of corruption is to be believed, as all the evidence suggests then I have no doubt the larger population would be fed only what the government wish them to hear. In this era of fake news, misinformation and misdirection I know I struggle to sort fact from fiction, and I think this would probably also be an issue for the general population of the DRC.
Good luck to all.
Not so sure about flow of information, every time I see video clip from the masses in the DRC they seem to have a mobile phone in their hand and one would assume internet access to the majority population. Plenty of opposition party propaganda floating around also but your point is also taken.
Mute22
Regular
If you are waiting for some kind of popular uprising from in the DRC, you are confusing it for some kind of collective egalitarian or neo liberal society, don't be fooled by 'Democratic' in the name - North Korea has the same.
Not only do these people not have the same lived experiences and expectations you might, they have generations of baggage across over 250 different tribes with hundreds of years ethnic and cultural conflicts not even touching on interference from Belgium and China.
It's not even about having the will or 'smarts', but imagine being born into a society where corruption happens in every interaction in your life, from the police to the post office - it's expected all the way to the top. If you aren't getting you're piece you are getting got. It will take generations to turn that bus around.
Add on top of that, you are barely getting by - why wouldn't you take any chance to help yourself out?
Forget about having the time to engage in activism to reshape a culturally fractured and geographically separate country, that's an absolute luxury. 70% of the population lives below the poverty line of only $2.15 a day. Your only representation is your local tribal leader, who will just as readily enrich themselves 'for the tribe' at the first chance they get.
All that to say, we would probably individually act the same if born into the average DRC citizen's circumstances.
Mate I know you struggle emotionally and have hit hard times due to this debacle . Flip Flopping emotions . Keep your chin mate and hang in there . You never know , good things maybe around corner .
Mute22
Regular
I have gone from: 'we are absolutely screwed' to 'with CATH funding we will win in the courts and get something, but be waiting years yet'.
Realistically, with the state of the country, my gut tells me no short-term negotiated outcome is going to occur before hand. Would be over the moon to be wrong however!
You could be wrong .
Mute22
Regular
I've been positive since 2018, maybe I'm finally right?
Maybe you are very very wrong .I've been positive since 2018, maybe I'm finally right?
Mute22
Regular
3-winky emojis? That's Deboss energy!Maybe you are very very wrong .
I respect your optimism, but I currently expect we will be having this same conversation in 2027.
Although it's probably this 43° heat having finally cooked my brain.
Winenut
Go AVZ!
Mute22
Regular
A flashback to Scarpa's post on the crapper in January . Becoming more relevant .IMO
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"So the funds are to be used to secure the mining licence, which is pretty obvious too me, which by default also means address the 'court issues'.
CATH like Zijin are Chinese. I suspect securing the ML will involve CATH telling and AVZ ending court/arbitration in terms of the Zijin dispute. How that plays out will be interesting and I wouldn't be surprised if the deal struck for Manono proceeding longer term is some form of ultimate JV across the entire project area which may or may not involve Zijin (but IMO will most likely involve Zijin).
I posted yesterday that the timing of this deal is interesting given the naming and shaming of certain companies by the Yanks only a few days ago. For the Chinese players and DRC there was always the issue IMO of how they were going to get the product out of the DRC if they allowed this 'stealing to continue in the format Zijin were doing' given the USA's/world bank's (potential) funding role for the export corridors relating Tanzania/Angola/South Africa - meaning the only option that the Chinese would have is to build a 2,000 km plus railway to the only narrow stretch of ocean the DRC had within its own country (if they were to continue with the implicit stealing of Manono). The agreement IMO from a Chinese perspective is to limit that fallout through the CATH deal - it is now up to AVZ to ensure the tea leaves it is reading have been read correctly by it IMO IMO.
The deal is what it is - how it finalizes will be interesting, but the Ann is written in a way saying CATH wants access ASAP to Manono which means that CATH will be essentially 'telling' AVZ to come to an agreement (without significant escalation of further legal actions) for the areas under dispute in the now with Zijin in a timely manner. The idea I suspect CATH will be pursuing is to ensure the Chinese entity of Zijin 'saves face' as well as DRC corrupt officials (including Comminiere) also saving face (given ultimately China does want access to (other) DRC resources.
It is what it is IMO IMO as that is how I am seeing this. With so many potential new spodumene/brine projects coming onstream the approach here IMO by the Chinese IMO is to get Manono into production ASAP so as to stifle the development plans of those potential projects (whilst maintaining their dominance in battery and EV making). To put it another way, if all those potential projects in Canada were to be developed what would be the impact on China's dominance of the battery/EV market? Let alone after the shaming of those Chinese entities by the yanks, what would happen to their market dominance if spodumene feedstock was sourced directly by the US say from Australian and/or proposed Canadian mines.
The deal is what it is - after a 2.5 years delay time to get the project moving again. It is what it is and AVZ needs to just settle the matter given the lifeline been offered by CATH.
I am sure others will disagree, but ultimately the project has stalled for so long, it is time to get back on track."
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"So the funds are to be used to secure the mining licence, which is pretty obvious too me, which by default also means address the 'court issues'.
CATH like Zijin are Chinese. I suspect securing the ML will involve CATH telling and AVZ ending court/arbitration in terms of the Zijin dispute. How that plays out will be interesting and I wouldn't be surprised if the deal struck for Manono proceeding longer term is some form of ultimate JV across the entire project area which may or may not involve Zijin (but IMO will most likely involve Zijin).
I posted yesterday that the timing of this deal is interesting given the naming and shaming of certain companies by the Yanks only a few days ago. For the Chinese players and DRC there was always the issue IMO of how they were going to get the product out of the DRC if they allowed this 'stealing to continue in the format Zijin were doing' given the USA's/world bank's (potential) funding role for the export corridors relating Tanzania/Angola/South Africa - meaning the only option that the Chinese would have is to build a 2,000 km plus railway to the only narrow stretch of ocean the DRC had within its own country (if they were to continue with the implicit stealing of Manono). The agreement IMO from a Chinese perspective is to limit that fallout through the CATH deal - it is now up to AVZ to ensure the tea leaves it is reading have been read correctly by it IMO IMO.
The deal is what it is - how it finalizes will be interesting, but the Ann is written in a way saying CATH wants access ASAP to Manono which means that CATH will be essentially 'telling' AVZ to come to an agreement (without significant escalation of further legal actions) for the areas under dispute in the now with Zijin in a timely manner. The idea I suspect CATH will be pursuing is to ensure the Chinese entity of Zijin 'saves face' as well as DRC corrupt officials (including Comminiere) also saving face (given ultimately China does want access to (other) DRC resources.
It is what it is IMO IMO as that is how I am seeing this. With so many potential new spodumene/brine projects coming onstream the approach here IMO by the Chinese IMO is to get Manono into production ASAP so as to stifle the development plans of those potential projects (whilst maintaining their dominance in battery and EV making). To put it another way, if all those potential projects in Canada were to be developed what would be the impact on China's dominance of the battery/EV market? Let alone after the shaming of those Chinese entities by the yanks, what would happen to their market dominance if spodumene feedstock was sourced directly by the US say from Australian and/or proposed Canadian mines.
The deal is what it is - after a 2.5 years delay time to get the project moving again. It is what it is and AVZ needs to just settle the matter given the lifeline been offered by CATH.
I am sure others will disagree, but ultimately the project has stalled for so long, it is time to get back on track."
Winenut
Go AVZ!
Peaked at 42.6 about 30 minutes ago
It's really fucking with my red wine consumption......
Similar threads
