AVZ Discussion 2022

[Azzler]

@Azzler
Why would you want to get rid of CATH?
They have been loyal and understanding to the AVZ cause through all the disturbance we have endured.
We will need their expertise and capital if we are to ever develop Manono. Sure the lithium prices have gone up but with the current markets it could also have gone down?

We have a good deal, trying to milk more money will take us nowhere and we will not look serious to other investors.

We're only talking if they turn out to be moving against us. If Yibin really is voting for the MMGA crew, then it's VERY concerning considering their relationship to CATL and hence CATH.
I think we all hope CATH is genuine.

 

[cruiser51]

Won't happen. Mr Pei supports the current BOD, moreso if a signature is forthcoming from the big fella before the AGM

Been too long around and fucked over too often to believe in nursery rhymes, mate.

I just see what happens and what cards Yibin plays at the AGM.
People better take note of the way Yibin votes.

 

[Azzler]

Been too long around and fucked over too often to believe in nursery rhymes, mate.

I just see what happens and what cards Yibin plays at the AGM.
People better take note of the way Yibin votes.

I was thinking it's probably anonymous.
I was wondering if they couldn't get the 5% for an EGM, because that might expose them, those votes couldn't be anonymous to call an egm... I think.
Oh I don't know just thinking out loud.

 

[Retrobyte]

Cath and Catl are closely related.

CATH is a private investment entity owned jointly by successful Chinese investor Pei Zhenhua and Contemporary Amperex Technology Co, or “CATL”.

YIBIN TIANYI LITHIUM INDUSTRY CO.,LTD. is mainly jointly sponsored by two listed companies, Canmax Technologies Co., Ltd. (Stock Code: 300390) and Contemporary Amperex Technology Co.,Limited (Stock Code: 300750)

Working with Chinese companies, it is important to understand who sleeps with who, lellep.

Many Chinese invest in CATL/CATH operations in order to make a potential shitload from the EV revolution. A ML before the AGM means votes for the current BOD, because these dudes just want to make a profit.

 

[Winenut]

Been too long around and fucked over too often to believe in nursery rhymes, mate.

I just see what happens and what cards Yibin plays at the AGM.
People better take note of the way Yibin votes.

Waiting to see how Yibin votes (or anyone for that matter)at the AGM will get you nowhere

Best to make sure shareholders know eaxactly how to vote, vote correctly for the team that will deliver them shareholder value and backs in the current board to deliver the right outcomes for the holders that invested in AVZ for the long term and with the right intentions

There is no "wait and see"

There is only make the right choice and vote "en masse" for the "genuine" people that have the broader SH interests at heart and are aligned with the current board on achieving the best possible outcome for all shareholders, AVZ, the good people in the DRC government and very importantly the people of Manono and the broader DRC population

 

[Retrobyte]

Been too long around and fucked over too often to believe in nursery rhymes, mate.

I just see what happens and what cards Yibin plays at the AGM.
People better take note of the way Yibin votes.

No need to introduce a straw man. Pei is solid

 

[cruiser51]

Waiting to see how Yibin votes (or anyone for that matter)at the AGM will get you nowhere

Best to make sure shareholders know eaxactly how to vote, vote correctly for the team that will deliver them shareholder value and backs in the current board to deliver the right outcomes for the holders that invested in AVZ for the long term and with the right intentions

There is no "wait and see"

There is only make the right choice and vote "en masse" for the "genuine" people that have the broader SH interests at heart and are aligned with the current board on achieving the best possible outcome for all shareholders, AVZ, the good people in the DRC government and very importantly the people of Manono and the broader DRC population

I have an entire brigade of angels marching over my tongue at this very moment.

Did you really think I was going to wait for Yibin?

I will be there to watch the proceedings, but vote in advance.

Watching people's behaviour always have been more important for me than to listen to a podcast.

 

[BEISHA]

Do not forget I wrote:
If it appears that Cath is playing games, I am pretty happy, in that case that AVZ gives Cath a big fat 'fuck you too'.

It depends on Yibin's behaviour during the AGM.
Everything comes with a price.

The DFS was written when the market value of 6% Lithium Spod was 1/4 of the present market price.
So Cath is getting a very, very good deal.

How much did Cath support the BoD, other than saying: 'yeah, yeah if you get the ML the deal still stands'.

If it appears that they are trying to backstab our BoD to screw us harder, I would say again: 'Fuk you too'.

And that is in big fat illuminated capital letters.

If it appears that they are trying to backstab our BoD to screw us harder,

What makes you think that ?

AVZ BOD on more than one occasion have stated relationship is good with Cath, they need the spod bad.....period.

Granted, they have been very quiet behind the scenes, but that doesnt surprise me, they are hardly going to do a JACK MA aka Alibaba and speak out against Zijin etc therefore Chinese govt or they would be crucified

They dont have any voting power, so not sure how they could collude with Yibin, even tho the relationship is intertwined.

I get you, China as a whole cant be trusted, i said that all along back in HC days that i was concerned with complete chinese involvement with offtakes and Top 20 shareholdings, but it is what it is now, so i am hoping Cath is one of the few beacons of good in this ordeal and AVZ can utilise their cash to fast forward construction along with bank finance.

Getting rid of Cath just adds another layer of fuckery and more delays finding a alternative.....good luck with that given what has transpired.

imo

 

[cruiser51]

If it appears that they are trying to backstab our BoD to screw us harder,

What makes you think that ?

AVZ BOD on more than one occasion have stated relationship is good with Cath, they need the spod bad.....period.

Granted, they have been very quiet behind the scenes, but that doesnt surprise me, they are hardly going to do a JACK MA aka Alibaba and speak out against Zijin etc therefore Chinese govt or they would be crucified

They dont have any voting power, so not sure how they could collude with Yibin, even tho the relationship is intertwined.

I get you, China as a whole cant be trusted, i said that all along back in HC days that i was concerned with complete chinese involvement with offtakes and Top 20 shareholdings, but it is what it is now, so i am hoping Cath is one of the few beacons of good in this ordeal and AVZ can utilise their cash to fast forward construction along with bank finance.

Getting rid of Cath just adds another layer of fuckery and more delays finding a alternative.....good luck with that given what has transpired.

imo

I think that, because of the connection between Cath and Catl, and the fact that Yibin is mainly jointly sponsored by two listed companies, Canmax Technologies Co., Ltd. (Stock Code: 300390) and Contemporary Amperex Technology Co.,Limited (Stock Code: 300750), alias Catl.

Just follow the dots.

Also another thing to remember is that China made huge investments all over the world in Lithium and are pretty happy to stall a potential spoiler.

I am surprised a lot of people never clicked onto this.
China wants control, if they can't achieve that, they are happy to continue to keep control and stop a potential opponent spoiling their plans.

 

[lellep]

AVZ BOD on more than one occasion have stated relationship is good with Cath, they need the spod bad.....period.

Granted, they have been very quiet behind the scenes, but that doesnt surprise me, they are hardly going to do a JACK MA aka Alibaba and speak out against Zijin etc therefore Chinese govt or they would be crucified

They dont have any voting power, so not sure how they could collude with Yibin, even tho the relationship is intertwined.

I get you, China as a whole cant be trusted, i said that all along back in HC days that i was concerned with complete chinese involvement with offtakes and Top 20 shareholdings, but it is what it is now, so i am hoping Cath is one of the few beacons of good in this ordeal and AVZ can utilise their cash to fast forward construction along with bank finance.

Getting rid of Cath just adds another layer of fuckery and more delays finding a alternative.....good luck with that given what has transpired.

imo

Exactly!

 

[RHyNO]

Felix is not going to do anything between now and the election IMO .Only 2 months away . If he loses it's not his problem . It will become more obvious if nothing changes between now and the AGM . MoU ? Are they f--king serious ? Time wasting ? Where's the ML ?

Yeah. working on an MOU which is non binding with a bunch of corrupt pricks. An MOU is about as valuable as roll of toilet paper. Definitely worth the 150k bonus he’s giving himself. (To clarify an MOU is a backwards step compared to actual ML or decree) but we love paying losers here in Australia! LOVE IT. Shut up (Nigel) and take my money!!

 

[Bonsoir]

Yeah. working on an MOU which is non binding with a bunch of corrupt pricks. An MOU is about as valuable as roll of toilet paper. Definitely worth the 150k bonus he’s giving himself. (To clarify an MOU is a backwards step compared to actual ML or decree) but we love paying losers here in Australia! LOVE IT. Shut up (Nigel) and take my money!!

Tend to agree and what is the purpose of the MOU, just follow the mining code and the law.

But I guess they say jump and we say how high, not much choice.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Yeah. working on an MOU which is non binding with a bunch of corrupt pricks. An MOU is about as valuable as roll of toilet paper. Definitely worth the 150k bonus he’s giving himself. (To clarify an MOU is a backwards step compared to actual ML or decree) but we love paying losers here in Australia! LOVE IT. Shut up (Nigel) and take my money!!

Tend to agree and what is the purpose of the MOU, just follow the mining code and the law.

But I guess they say jump and we say how high, not much choice.

I swear I read it was a binding MoU somewhere but going back over the announcement last week it clearly isn't. The easiest way for the DRC government to not have to face the ICSID is to just issue the licence. It does seem the MoU is just a smokescreen for them wasting more of our time while they figure out how to rat fuck us for minimal loss.

 

[Winenut]

My understanding is that the MOU would lay out the pathway to achieve the ML

With all the shitfuckery that has occurred and the waters being so muddied with lies and disinformation I think they really have to dissect the action points to finally get to the ML

I have no knowledge of the content or at what state of completion it may be in

Nevertheless I am hopeful it is something along the lines of....

All parties (AVZ, Dathcom,DRC Govt, Cominiere, CAMI etc etc etc ) agree to the following actions and timelines

Step1 - Felix announces adoption of MOU to progress Manono
Step 2- Celestin is removed from Cominiere
Step 3 -Cominiere officially reinstate JV
Step 4 - PR13359 is recognised as 221 carre in entirety
Step 5 - Sales of Zijin of 15% recognised as illegal
Step 6 - Surface rights calculated by CAMI and invoice issued.....
Step 7 - you get general idea where this is going
Step 8....
Step 9....
Step ...... AVZI to pay issued invoice for surface rights
Step ...... ML awarded and officially documented with no revoke clause
Step ...... All parties sign off
Step ...... All actions legally demonstrated and recorded
Step ...... On satisfaction of all actions AVZI to cancel international legal challenges
Step ......
Step ......
Step ......
etc etc etc

Of course there is so much more to this (Dathomir, CONG, CATH, Jin Cheng, ICC, ICSID, Mupande, Mpiana Mwanga dam rehab....you name it)

Possibly requires some sort of legal remedies or pathways if the parties to the MOU don't perform the actions it prescribes and in the timeframes specified

But this is the sort of descriptive pathway and detail that is required to finally get to the ML...... in my opinion

Look I know I'm not a legal eagle and this is a very, very, very simplistic example bit I think it's the "flavour" of what might be required to break the impasse and finally get some progress on the project for AVZ, the DRC Govt and agencies and the general population of Manono and the DRC

 

[Dazmac66]

Maybe the ML is the first proviso in the MOU with further "remedies" to be included to compensate AVZ and avoid the ICSID case. A roadmap to a win-win for DRC and AVZ with the mining licence just part of the agreement and reaffirming SEZ, HEPP, Battery Council etc etc.
Edit: On the same wavelength Nut.

 

[CHB]

The problem with the MoU, apart from whether it can be trusted, is the talk of a pathway to ML.

The word pathway just seems like it will be a long road. I'd want the ML to be really soon and not something that will take another 6 months to get.

But that's just assumptions from me atm.

 

[wombat74]

Yeah. working on an MOU which is non binding with a bunch of corrupt pricks. An MOU is about as valuable as roll of toilet paper. Definitely worth the 150k bonus he’s giving himself. (To clarify an MOU is a backwards step compared to actual ML or decree) but we love paying losers here in Australia! LOVE IT. Shut up (Nigel) and take my money!!

When Plan A doesn't work you move to plan B . ICSID is not an option . ICSID means zero dollars for SH .

 

[Bonsoir]

When Plan A doesn't work you move to plan B . ICSID is not an option . ICSID means zero dollars for SH .

ICSID is a real option and maybe the only option in the end.

 

[Carlos Danger]

When Plan A doesn't work you move to plan B . ICSID is not an option . ICSID means zero dollars for SH .

ICSID is a real option and maybe the only option in the end.

The ICSID is the only thing we have that Felix respects. Makes it harder for him to finesse the gringos while the case is ongoing. Shareholders will get some money through this process but who knows how much and whatever we are awarded will take years if not decades to recover.

 

[Roon]

ICSID is a real option and maybe the only option in the end.

ICSID is only a real option insofar it being a pressure tool to bring everyone to the negotiating table. It is not at option that will track through to conclusion to an award delivering a mining title, just potentially a cash award that we will likely never collect on in any case. So no, don't see this as a 'real' option beyond its use as leverage. However it is very useful in this regard, and had clearly had an impact